What is the Curia?

[Commissar Caligula_]

Here's a question for Citizens. Be brutally honest.
What does the Curia mean to you? What do you reckon its purpose is?

I may as well go first. Personally, I think that the Curia exists as a means of rewarding (not awarding) TWC users who have shown their commitment to the site by allowing them access to the Curia.
The Curia in turn, is a body for interested and dedicated users (Citizens) to suggest changes to the site, and have an impact on the site.
In an ideal world, the majority of the changes should be for the good of TWC as a whole, rather than simply internal Curial changes that do not affect the common user of TWC.

Non-Citizens can make an impact on TWC, either via the Q&S section or via branches of Staff but the Curia is a means of bringing together all the interested people.
Therefore, I reckon it should be a privilege to be a Citizen and we should be subject to normal Moderation AND the increased scrutiny of the Curator/Censor.

[Navajo Joe]

An excellent question, I agree 100% that to become a citizen is a reward for having shown commitment to TWC. On first becoming a citizen I watched and learned on the going's on and then later became a CDEC person that I took very seriously. I also made some good friends along the way and believed that I was doing a good job. At this time I also proposed a number of proposals to take the Curia out to the wider forum. Basically most of these proposals were blocked by Curia conservatives who just want to keep their club as it is.

I have returned to the Curia in the last month and have to say that nothing has changed. I believe that the Curia and its active citizens is too insular and inward thinking, it all seems to be about changing the constitution and other rules. Much of this is reactive, with little signs on of proactive behaviour.

I remember when the debate on CDEC was in full flight, one of the arguments was that CDEC was for elites who had no wants to allow citizenry to grow. I believe that some of the citizens of the Curia are elitest, just want to restrict the club to the existing citizens.

I would like to make proposals again, but alas they would be shot down before they have taken off and I really don't want to waste my time on something going nowhere.

Cheers

NJ

[Hitai de Bodemloze]

What is the Curia? In theory, it's an intersection of the site; a junction wherein people from all different communities here can meet, exchange ideas and grow the site. From writers, to modders, to artists, to staff, to debaters, to hotseaters and roleplayers, this is the one place we all meet up together and get to know eachother. I imagine the majority of us might never even cross paths with eachother if it wasn't for the Curia. The Curia in theory is a place where we can represent our own communities, and use our skills and knowledge (which we all have, based on the very fact that we have each done something in order to deserve citizenship) to benefit eachother and the site writ large.

But that's just in theory. In practice, we've devolved into a glorified awards committee, as we slowly vote away everything else about the Curia and citizenship in general, whilst perennially refusing to take initiative, think outside the box and disagreeing on literally anything and everything else we could potentially be doing. The most galling thing is some people are content with this state of affairs; including myself at times, which I'm ashamed of.

I don't see it as conservatism vs radicalism, and I don't think conservatives are holding the Curia back - I think it's just apathy. I've always been a Curial conservative; I remain in favour of bringing back the CdeC, the patron-client bond, and Houses. Yes there are new, radical or liberal things we could be doing, like opening everything up to non-citizens, but we could also be reinventing, re-imagining and reworking old practices in new ways. It pains me to see the Curia sell its traditions down the river, and people caring less and less about who their patron is or what House they belong to. These are exactly the things we should be conserving and fighting for, especially when we're losing not only a function as a Curia, but a very identity.

[z3n]

The curia is the real Garbarsardar's fight club.

[Lifthrasir]

This...



... a bit more every day, unfortunately.

[PikeStance]

What is the Curia? In theory, it's an intersection of the site; a junction wherein people from all different communities here can meet, exchange ideas and grow the site. From writers, to modders, to artists, to staff, to debaters, to hotseaters and roleplayers, this is the one place we all meet up together and get to know eachother. I imagine the majority of us might never even cross paths with eachother if it wasn't for the Curia. The Curia in theory is a place where we can represent our own communities, and use our skills and knowledge (which we all have, based on the very fact that we have each done something in order to deserve citizenship) to benefit eachother and the site writ large.

But that's just in theory. In practice, we've devolved into a glorified awards committee, as we slowly vote away everything else about the Curia and citizenship in general, whilst perennially refusing to take initiative, think outside the box and disagreeing on literally anything and everything else we could potentially be doing. The most galling thing is some people are content with this state of affairs; including myself at times, which I'm ashamed of.

I don't see it as conservatism vs radicalism, and I don't think conservatives are holding the Curia back - I think it's just apathy. I've always been a Curial conservative; I remain in favour of bringing back the CdeC, the patron-client bond, and Houses. Yes there are new, radical or liberal things we could be doing, like opening everything up to non-citizens, but we could also be reinventing, re-imagining and reworking old practices in new ways. It pains me to see the Curia sell its traditions down the river, and people caring less and less about who their patron is or what House they belong to. These are exactly the things we should be conserving and fighting for, especially when we're losing not only a function as a Curia, but a very identity.

The Bold is me and this is exactly what I have been advocating. Opening up the Curia to non-citizens is actually another devolvement of citizenship.

------

Thee are several reasons we have problems
1. We forgot what the Curia is/ was. it is what Hitai stated in the first paragraph. Citizenship was a way of vetting the passerby members from the committed ones.
2. Removal of the CdeC was not hastily and without thought. We are still trying to figure out a feasible way to function.

With the lack of purpose or a functioning arrangement, the Curia is mired in indecision and uncertainty with other members convinced of the "right" way.

I personally feel we are gradually getting to where we need to be from a functioning point of view. Where we go from here and how we define the role of citizenship is something that apparently needs to be resolved.

[Iskar]

I would like to differentiate the Curia's function and role:

Its function is in fact that of an awards committee that occasionally also offers the random suggestion for improving the site. Add the odd incident like providing the facilities to publicly clean up the mess of Soul's and Para's antics (not a small feat to be frank) and that is basically it.

However, the role is very different from that. The Curia is part of the rewards that come with the award of citizenship(, although I would not consider this reward diminished if non citizens could post here as well, as long as voting is restricted to citizens).

As such the Curia's problem is that is too often regarded only with respect to its function like a wayward staff branch. There is nothing wrong with having a function and productive purpose on the site, but I do think that the Curia needs to be approached differently from as it is now: Cum grano salis, currently Hex views the Curia under the question of what it can do for the site, what they can get out of it, while the Citizenry as well regards it often under the aspect of how much influence on the site and general dramatic entertainment we can get out of it.

Instead, Hex should approach the Curia not like a wayward staff branch or antiquated extension of the administration, but under the question of what they can invest in this unique aspect of the site to make it more of an asset with regards to binding users and creating traffic.
In turn, we the citizens should view it more (just even more for some commendable individuals) under the aspect of what we can offer to the wider site through it.

In a way the approaches to the Curia are upside down as of now: Citizens try to make the Curia more glorious and important, which is what Hex should be doing, while Hex is asking what work the Curia can do for the site, which is what citizens should be doing.

[PikeStance]

This is what I send to my prospective clients

With citizenship, you are entitled to some benefits as well. They are;
+ Allowances to give more focused feedback and bring up grievances and positive comments in the Curia.
+ Ability to put forth proposals that can change any part of the site. (Generally, the admin pays attention to the request to the Curia, while the Q&S Forum would be dismissed unless it is a minor suggestion)
+ Ability to run in Curial elections, such as Curator, Censor, or Magistrate
+ 3 badges (Citizen, Civitates, and. Artifex to choose from and a colored name. (Artifex is a contribution in modding, Civitates for contributing in content and/ or debating. Citizen is for contributing in various areas not covered by the other two).
+ Can post in the Symposium where the rules are more relaxed.
+ Ability to change the default user title to a custom one.

Please note: I do not mention that the award is an award in order to award others.

Note also what is mentioned at the top. No one wants to join an "award committee" and such thinking as not helped the image of the Curia and the site at large.
Non-citizens see the Curia as a bunch of individuals more concern with useless debate than actually making a difference by doing what is mentioned at the top.
Letting in non-citizens to the Curia would not diminish citizenship, it would utterly destroy it for good. Who would want to be a citizen, face higher scrutiny of behavior (supposedly) and when you can already do 85% of what a citizen can do? Other than the Magistrate, if you are not a citizen, you would not give a hoot about the Curator or Censor.

I know the idea of egalitarianism is alluring and the belief that it can be applied in virtual world enticing, but this site grew on a completely different principle. At some point, we were all aspiring citizens. You should ask yourself why? If you had free range here would you really care? I said this before, but people should read the old posts here. You get a different feel for what made this place special and unique. Some will make this nonsensical argument about going backward. it isn't backward if it is returning to something that worked and was successful. I was a believer in "equality" and "non-elitism." I voted to remove the term "rank." It was at that point I started reading the history and I saw the errors. Errors I am still desperately trying to convey to everyone.

[Lifthrasir]

(...)I know the idea of egalitarianism is alluring and the belief that it can be applied in virtual world enticing, but this site grew on a completely different principle. At some point, we were all aspiring citizens. You should ask yourself why? If you had free range here would you really care? I said this before, but people should read the old posts here. You get a different feel for what made this place special and unique. Some will make this nonsensical argument about going backward. it isn't backward if it is returning to something that worked and was successful. I was a believer in "equality" and "non-elitism." I voted to remove the term "rank." It was at that point I started reading the history and I saw the errors. Errors I am still desperately trying to convey to everyone.

Actually not really. I didn't think of becoming one before Flinn asked me. I accepted because I honestly and ingenuously thought this could allow me to do more for the site. But then, I quickly realized that I was doing more for the betterment of the site as a Content Staff rather than as a citizen.
However, a small part of myself should still believe in the curia because I'm still spending too much time here

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

I don't see it as conservatism vs radicalism, and I don't think conservatives are holding the Curia back - I think it's just apathy. I've always been a Curial conservative; I remain in favour of bringing back the CdeC, the patron-client bond, and Houses. Yes there are new, radical or liberal things we could be doing, like opening everything up to non-citizens, but we could also be reinventing, re-imagining and reworking old practices in new ways. It pains me to see the Curia sell its traditions down the river, and people caring less and less about who their patron is or what House they belong to. These are exactly the things we should be conserving and fighting for, especially when we're losing not only a function as a Curia, but a very identity.

Ι agree with Hitaι as I would also like to see an enchantment to the CdeC and the patron-client bond,Houses etc. I would strongly support any action concerning any of the aforementioned areas.

[Lifthrasir]

From my understanding, the CdeC wasn't that such "a good thing"

[PikeStance]

Well, there are three versions of the CdeC;
1. The Romanticized version which remembers the positive role it played.
2. The Bad version which remembers all the bad stuff.
3. The reality version which is something of a mixture of the top two.

There are people who are 1 and 2 people, but most are three but would represent a range from 1 to 2.

The systemic problem with a group that vets citizenship application is that eventually to justify their own Reason to be they would inevitably raise the standards of citizenship. Another systemic problem is the shrinking of the site, fewer citizens meant fewer options to vote for the CdeC. They were some members that didn't say or do much. There is also criticism that they rejected a lot of citizens or that they were going to reject a lot. There isn't any evidence to support this definitely. However, the standards were rising and it may have inhibited some potential patronages because they fear it would fail.

The romanticized version assumes that the CdeC promoted activity within an interest in the Curia. Much of the criticism above has been blown out of proportion.

I think the truth lies somewhere in between.

[Flinn]

I commend the intent of this thread, but the few answers say it all I believe about how much people is actually aware of what the Curia is (I'm basically in line with what Isky said, if you wonder).

However, the question should be IMO: what would you like the Curia to be?

My simple answer is: the main Awards body of the site, with Citizenship being the middle step as the award that allows members to partake in all the possible committees we can think of (and they can be elected ones too, why not?). Other than this, it can still work as an advisory body to Hex proposing ideas and changes and I can see how these part can again be carried out by a dedicated committee (once again, elected). The crap about higher standards, citizen referrals and such is just

edit: the idea of Hitai of bringing back the focus on houses isn't bad actually, and I'm fine with having a bit of role play and benevolent competition amongst houses, as long as it does not hinder any actual activity of the Curia, though

[Leonardo]

Actually not really. I didn't think of becoming one before Flinn asked me. I accepted because I honestly and ingenuously thought this could allow me to do more for the site. But then, I quickly realized that I was doing more for the betterment of the site as a Content Staff rather than as a citizen.
However, a small part of myself should still believe in the curia because I'm still spending too much time here

I want to add another aspect to that and I think the Curia should be a place there citizens can enhance their ability to run a certain area of the site in a staff branch like me doing now in the Modding Staff and I mention that in my application.

I commend the intent of this thread, but the few answers say it all I believe about how much people is actually aware of what the Curia is (I'm basically in line with what Isky said, if you wonder).

However, the question should be IMO: what would you like the Curia to be?

My simple answer is: the main Awards body of the site, with Citizenship being the middle step as the award that allows members to partake in all the possible committees we can think of (and they can be elected ones too, why not?). Other than this, it can still work as an advisory body to Hex proposing ideas and changes and I can see how these part can again be carried out by a dedicated committee (once again, elected). The crap about higher standards, citizen referrals and such is just

edit: the idea of Hitai of bringing back the focus on houses isn't bad actually, and I'm fine with having a bit of role play and benevolent competition amongst houses, as long as it does not hinder any actual activity of the Curia, though

I also agree with Iskar about what the curia can do and should be doing.

What the Curia should do is to foster citizens (non-citizens if the Curia were open to all members), any citizen can express their interest, into an administrator of the site and whether it be a small corner or a large area of the site it doesn't matter, which requires an individual that has what the administration is looking for when recruiting a member (non-citizen or citizen) into the Hexagon Council.