Tolkien General Discussion II

[IBSXYPNTS]

If Sauron had his way and eventually subdued all in Middle-Earth, what would he do then? How would he rule? Would he permit his servants to live? Would he rule them strictly or leave them to their own devices? Would it make any difference if the orcs or the evil men won it for Sauron?

I also wonder if the Hashari (Harad light infantry) are lore-based, that is, the order of assassins possibly created by Sauron himself. I couldn't find any references to it ouside of this mod.

I think he would have ruled over them. I cant see there outright destruction since even if he overran all of middle earth it could take years to find and weed out any remaining resistance. I mean even if he had taken Minas Tirith it could have easily taken years to even completely conquer Gondor and Rohan let alone the others. I think the scenario you speak of would have taken place a decade at least after the lotr storyline. Although at that point im not to sure what would happen.

Now that I think about it though, I believe it says the Haradhrim and Easterlings serve Sauron out of fear. Perhaps one day they would rise up against him out of greater fear for themselves against his orce hordes?

[Ngugi]

Naturally it would make a difference, anyone who question that have not read Tolkien. Sauron is not someone who 'just desire power' as a mere amibtious bloke but embodies terror and destruction (as often this is not directed at anyone specific, but since the idea of a 'grey' or even 'good' Sauron is raised both now and then, and with at best most questionable lore aguments, and often not even such).
In general Sauron desired to rule over servants, he want alive servants, but would turned all into an tyrannical theocracy, where the Lord's faithful Men would be Orcs in all but birth, where empathy (even among His servants, or especially among His servants) would be rejected, any opposition oppressed until exterminated and anything but Anarchy disguised as Order prevailed.
As displayed by some simple quotes:

And in the south and in the further east Men multiplied; and most of them turned to evil, for Sauron was at work.
(...)
Now Sauron's lust and pride increased, until he knew no bounds, and he determined to make himself master of all things in Middle-earth, and to destroy the Elves, and to compass, if he might, the downfall of Númenor. He brooked no freedom nor any rivalry, and he named himself Lord of the Earth. A mask he still could wear so that if he wished he might deceive the eyes of Men, seeming to them wise and fair. But he ruled rather by force and fear, if they might avail; and those who perceived his shadow spreading over the world called him the Dark Lord and named him the Enemy; and he gathered again under his government all the evil things of the days of Morgoth that remained on earth or beneath it, and the Orcs were at his command and multiplied like flies..... In the east and south well nigh all Men were under his dominion, and they grew strong in those days and built many towns and walls of stone, and they were numerous and fierce in war and aimed with iron. To them Sauron was both king and god; and they feared him exceedingly, for he surrounded his abode with fire.
- Second Age, Silmarillion

More ominous were rumours from the further East: the Wild Men were restless. Former servants and worshippers of Sauron, they were released now from his tyranny, but not from the evil and darkness that he had set in their hearts. Cruel wars raged among them, from which some were withdrawing westward, with minds filled with hatred, regarding all that dwelt in the West as enemies to be slain and plundered.
- early Third Age, UT

Have to say I like IBSXYPNTS's thought at any rate, it is very Tolkien actually, as one of his core concept is that evil will destory itself [unintentionally], as evil actions pave the way for it's own end.

[IBSXYPNTS]

Naturally it would make a difference, anyone who question that have not read Tolkien. Sauron is not someone who 'just desire power' as a mere amibtious bloke but embodies terror and destruction (as often this is not directed at anyone specific, but since the idea of a 'grey' or even 'good' Sauron is raised both now and then, and with at best most questionable lore aguments, and often not even such).
In general Sauron desired to rule over servants, he want alive servants, but would turned all into an tyrannical theocracy, where the Lord's faithful Men would be Orcs in all but birth, where empathy (even among His servants, or especially among His servants) would be rejected, any opposition oppressed until exterminated and anything but Anarchy disguised as Order prevailed.
As displayed by some simple quotes:


Have to say I like IBSXYPNTS's thought at any rate, it is very Tolkien actually, as one of his core concept is that evil will destory itself [unintentionally], as evil actions pave the way for it's own end.

I agree for while the Easterlings and Harardhrim had the enemies of Sauron to face i can totally accept they would do his bidding but what if soon after they began to fear him, for as so far as I recall (which addmittedy I couldnt easily find) They serve him of fear. In my mind he tells their leaders Gondor and the west mean conquest or alternatively as a kind of Genghis (sp) Khan as in they served him out of pure worry what could happen to themselves if they resisted. Now I know its a stretch but as the fourth age continued the elder races left Middle Earth and I believe that the various orcs and trolls and uruks and such would need another enemy. I believe Sauron would have decieved the remaining men as much as possible to buy time. For although Gondor couldnt resist the races of men he helped were very numerous according to lore (again this is from memory correct me if im wrong) now if for instance Rhun occupied all the lands east of the great river they in sheer numbers while not near the orcs could fight with success.

I wish I could quote the exact paragraph. But I believe it is written that the Southrons and Easterlings were the most fierce of Saurons servants in battle prowess (Perhaps the Uruk Hai were greater but they faught for Sarumon) I mean IIRC during the battle of the Pellannor Fields they were the last and most fierce of the enemies of Gondor. I just think eventually the orcs having ravanged all the rest of middle earth would face off with the Haradhrim and the men from Rhun. Because while they feared Sauron I can believe they feared their own destruction more which is what turned them to the Dark Lord to begin with.

[IBSXYPNTS]

Naturally it would make a difference, anyone who question that have not read Tolkien. Sauron is not someone who 'just desire power' as a mere amibtious bloke but embodies terror and destruction (as often this is not directed at anyone specific, but since the idea of a 'grey' or even 'good' Sauron is raised both now and then, and with at best most questionable lore aguments, and often not even such).
In general Sauron desired to rule over servants, he want alive servants, but would turned all into an tyrannical theocracy, where the Lord's faithful Men would be Orcs in all but birth, where empathy (even among His servants, or especially among His servants) would be rejected, any opposition oppressed until exterminated and anything but Anarchy disguised as Order prevailed.
As displayed by some simple quotes:

I also put forward while Sauron was the evil that binded men Morgoth was the evil based on destruction. Again I have read too many notes and such to put forth a proper debate but I believe Morgoth desired to rule over all creation sauron was more inclined to rules over its created beings. I know that may not make much sense and I appologize for the double post. I always pictured Morgoth as the destroyer and Sauron as the Ruler if that helps any. Its just my own personal interpetation.

[Boogie Knight]

Tolkien used different languages to translate the Middle-earth languages. He obviously used English to translate Westron, or 'Common tongue'.
As that was a relative of Rohirrim's old language Old English was used for their language and names (thus no coincidence you find an Eomer in anglo-saxon history, or rather an Eomer in Rohirrims). And the Northmen of Rhovanion who were their forefathers and relatives in turn are given names influenced or based on Gothic, to display the historical kinship.
The Dwarven names are actually, as well known, Norse, and that was explained that Dwarves who were secretive of their own namnes had adapted the languages and names that Northmen in the north were they lived used, again to display the kinship with the other Northmen, but from another era and area.
However, it shall be stressed, it is only a matter of JRR's "translations", because Westron was not English but completly unrelated to the germanic languages, and Rohirrim did not speak Old English or the Northmen of Rhovanion neither Gothic or Norse. It is simply a linguistic tool to create the proper feeling of the languages as it would be for us and our [English] lingustic history.
A nice video on the topic is found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NKlr0vRX34


Beornings were humans, a branch of the Northmen or at the least much mingled with them.
The ability to skin-change was a feature of Beorn's own family, and we have no hint it was an ability of his folk in general.
Why their line could shape-shift is never explained, but then again we do not know why the men of Dale could speak to birds either, or why the kings of the Númenóreans are supposed to have 'healing hands' (the latter though inspired by an English tradition, that even claimed this into the 19th century hehe), and so on. It is however closely aligned to the Norse sagas and myths (that JRR knew well) where some humans had the ability (best known as berserkers, though that is not always the term used) and where the ability often was inherited within a certain family. A common theme is that berserkers come in groups that are brothers in Norse sagas.
That it should have any connection to that the Beornings are related to the Edain is nothing Tolkien suggest or hint at.

Sorry, yes, I did mean to say that I knew the languages (Old English, Old Norse, Old Gothic etc.) were used to represent the languages of the Northmen/Dwarves etc. rather than them actually speaking those languages. It was the '-ing' part that caught my eye and made me wonder if it meant 'son of' in Middle-Earth, too.

So when we talk about the Beornings, do we just mean the family and descendants of Beorn, rather than the Edain House of Beor? The shape-shifting thing is fascinating to me, as it's one of those examples of understated magic in Tolkien's work that you can easily overlook if you don't stop to think about it, like I did. I was reading a bit about it elsewhere, and I do seem to remember seeing something about the Elves having something to do with the gift but I can't for the life of me find it now. I also found that Beren apparently had that ability too. Do we know if he was a direct ancestor of Beorn? Or do we know which of the human houses he was from?

[Flinn]

So when we talk about the Beornings, do we just mean the family and descendants of Beorn, rather than the Edain House of Beor? The shape-shifting thing is fascinating to me, as it's one of those examples of understated magic in Tolkien's work that you can easily overlook if you don't stop to think about it, like I did. I was reading a bit about it elsewhere, and I do seem to remember seeing something about the Elves having something to do with the gift but I can't for the life of me find it now. I also found that Beren apparently had that ability too. Do we know if he was a direct ancestor of Beorn? Or do we know which of the human houses he was from?

some basic knowledge about them

History

The Beornings were close kin of the Éothéod, the Woodmen of Mirkwood and the Bardings. Their ancestors were related to the Edain, perhaps akin to the Third House of the First Age. (The house of Marach and Hador)
After the Battle of Five Armies and the decimation of the Orcs of the Misty Mountains, many Northmen gathered around Beorn who became a great chief. It is possible that the Beornings became known as a people through being descendants of Beorn. During the War of the Ring, Grimbeorn, son of Beorn, was the leader of the Beornings.
The Beornings kept open the passages of the Ford of Carrock and the High Pass in return for tolls,likely clearing the paths from Dale to Rivendell from evil creatures such as Orcs and Wargs.
In the events leading up to the War of the Ring, the Beornings helped Aragorn, who was taking Gollum to Mirkwood, to cross the Anduin.
During the War of the Ring, while wearing the One Ring upon Amon Hen, Frodo saw the land of the Beornings aflame, hinting that Sauron's forces had attacked them.
After the War of the Ring, the Beornings and the Woodmen were given central Eryn Lasgalen by Thranduil and Celeborn.

source

furthermore, AFAIK the only hint about Beren changing form is when Lutien used the skin of Draugluin to hide his real nature during their quest for the Silmaril

[Flinn]

what was the most common currency in ME? I can't recall anything out of my memory: there are little references to money in general afaik.

[Ngugi]

what was the most common currency in ME? I can't recall anything out of my memory: there are little references to money in general afaik.

Most known about money you find here: http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Money
No known answer really thus, but if to speculate the Castar that is backed with an empire's authority (and reliability is key behind the value of any currency), and any coin of high degree of noble metals such as the Dwarves, ought to been universally accepted.

[Flinn]

thanks mommy, I had a look at the Tolkien Gateway page some time ago, but I actually missed to notice the Castar

I have to concur that most probably there was a sort of common use of coin, although not very common it happened that people from different races will get mixed (ie the dwarves crossing the shire should pay at inns with something I guess ) and I can imagine commerce between the Shire and Bree, between Rohan and Gondor, Silvans and Dale etc).

Gold and silver have value for what they are themselves, so even only by mere weight one can give a value to any coin made with them

[♔atthias♔]

hello everyone I have a question can an elf such as haldir became corrupted by the one ring
sorry for my bad english
and excuse me if the question has already been answered
greeetings atthias

[Ngugi]

Since you ask here, I presume you wonder from a lore perspective: yes, anyone, that was the danger involved, who carried the Ring would been corrupted by it: Man, Elf*, Maiar, Dwarf. Not even Sauron himself was unaffected by the Ring's influence (!), that prevented the very imagination that anyone would consider to destroy It, since he would not been able to do so even himself.


*there exist a quite common perception that Elves can not be evil, simply because it's rare and seldom explicitly expressed: this is faulty. Any self conscious agent, just as with Men or Maiar or even Valar, could through desire(s) and action(s) become evil.

[Withwnar]

What about Tom Bombadil?

[Ngugi]

A merited question; I did ponder to discuss resilience gainst the influence of the Ring, such as Hobbits display, but skipped it.
As the topic is raised however, I'll explain the concept later today (as I want time to provide quotes)- an answer which we may find is met with opposition but I don't mind, that's what the thread is for hehe.

[♔atthias♔]

thanks for the aswer ngugi and I am looking forward to your quotes LOREMASTER OF MIDDLE-EARTH
greetings atthias

[Ngugi]

The line of argument I present has the point to say that while Tom Bombadil would resist the Ring, he technically could fall to It; and describe what I consider the common mentality between them and Hobbits that provide them passive resistance.
The most important quote, if you do not desire to read them all, is the last one from RotK, prior to the ~~~
[Cheesus, it got long!]


Let's begin with merry Tom, who the Ring could not affect. What actually happend?

It seemed to grow larger as it lay for a moment on his big brown-skinned hand. Then suddenly he put it to his eye and laughed. For a second the hobbits had a vision, both comical and alarming, of his bright blue eye gleaming through a circle of gold. Then Tom put the Ring round the end of his little finger and held it up to the candlelight. For a moment the hobbits noticed nothing strange about this. Then they gasped. There was no sign of Tom disappearing!Tom laughed again, and then he spun the Ring in the air - and it vanished with a flash. Frodo gave a cry - and Tom leaned forward and handed it back to him with a smile.
...
[Frodo] waited for an opportunity, when the talk was going again, and Tom was telling an absurd story about badgers and their queer ways - then he slipped the Ring on.
Merry turned towards him to say something and gave a start, and checked an exclamation. Frodo was delighted (in a way): it was his own ring all right, for Merry was staring blankly at his chair, and obviously could not see him. He got up and crept quietly away from the fireside towards the outer door.
‘Hey there!’ cried Tom, glancing towards him with a most seeing look in his shining eyes. ‘Hey! Come Frodo, there! Where be you a-going? Old Tom Bombadil’s not as blind as that yet. Take off your golden ring! Your hand’s more fair without it. Come back! Leave your game and sit down beside me! We must talk a while more, and think about the morning. Tom must teach the right road, and keep your feet from wandering.’
Frodo laughed (trying to feel pleased), and taking off the Ring he came and sat down again.
- FotR; In the House of Tom Bombadil

As all know, Tolkien left the nature of Tom an enigma, willingly. It has resulted into many speculations on what he is, a nature spirit, Arda manifistated, a Maiar, an avatar of a Valar or even Iluvatar himself. I shall not delve into that topic, while I may note I certainly do not believe in any of the latter two suggestions.
What get interesting in that discussion is how a logic often appear that because Tom was not affected by the Ring he must be immensly powerful (to some an argument for the latter two suggestions mentioned, I find). It may seem compelling, but is an erroneous line of logic: Tom is not unaffected because he is powerful.
That is not saying he is not powerful, even utterly powerful, only that it is not the reason.
Indeed we are informed that having power is a danger that make you more receptive to the influence of the One Ring, even if you need some power to maintain self-control. Even a petty Hobbit will fare better than many a great Elf or Maia or Man:

Frodo was in such a position: an apparently complete trap: a person of greater native power could probably never have resisted the Ring's lure to power so long; a person of less power could not hope to resist it in the final decision. (Already Frodo had been unwilling to harm the Ring before he set out, and was incapable of surrendering it to Sam.)
- Letter 181

[Gandalf:] 'Among the Wise I am the only one that goes in for hobbit-lore: an obscure branch of knowledge, but full of surprises. Soft as butter they can be, and yet sometimes as tough as old tree-roots. I think it likely that some would resist the Rings far longer than most of the Wise would believe.'
- FotR; The Shadow of the Past

The Wise are aware of this, and they greatly fear to posess the Ring for that very reason. But, what do they actually tell us? It is actually not power itself that allow the Ring to influence a person, but a person's desire and ambition; I will not say anything about if it is true that greater native power also bring greater desires and ambition, but to JRR it is a piece in the puzzle.

[Frodo:] ‘But I have so little of any of these things! You are wise and powerful. Will you not take the Ring?’
‘No!’ cried Gandalf, springing to his feet. ‘With that power I should have power too great and terrible. And over me the Ring would gain a power still greater and more deadly.’ His eyes flashed and his face was lit as by a fire within. ‘Do not tempt me! For I do not wish to become like the Dark Lord himself. Yet the way of the Ring to my heart is by pity, pity for weakness and the desire of strength to do good. Do not tempt me! I dare not take it, not even to keep it safe, unused. The wish to wield it would be too great, for my strength. I shall have such need of it. Great perils lie before me.’
- FotR; The Shadow of the Past

'Alas, no,' said Elrond. 'We cannot use the Ruling Ring. That we now know too well. It belongs to Sauron and was made by him alone, and is altogether evil. Its strength, Boromir, is too great for anyone to wield at will, save only those who have already a great power of their own. But for them it holds an even deadlier peril. The very desire of it corrupts the heart. Consider Saruman. If any of the Wise should with this Ring overthrow the Lord of Mordor, using his own arts, he would then set himself on Sauron's throne, and yet another Dark Lord would appear. And that is another reason why the Ring should be destroyed: as long as it is in the world it will be a danger even to the Wise. For nothing is evil in the beginning. Even Sauron was not so. I fear to take the Ring to hide it. I will not take the Ring to wield it.'
- FotR; Council of Elrond

`Wise the Lady Galadriel may be,' she said, `yet here she has met her match in courtesy. Gently are you revenged for my testing of your heart at our first meeting. You begin to see with a keen eye. I do not deny that my heart has greatly desired to ask what you offer. For many long years I had pondered what I might do, should the Great Ring come into my hands, and behold! it was brought within my grasp. The evil that was devised long ago works on in many ways, whether Sauron himself stands or falls. Would not that have been a noble deed to set to the credit of his Ring, if I had taken it by force or fear from my guest?
`And now at last it comes. You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair! '
- FotR; The Mirror of Galadriel

The Ring operated by boosting ambitions and desires, to invoke the will to use It to reach these good, or wicked, goals. The greater the need for power to fulfill a crucial desire/ambition (such as save your life, or your people, or the world), the firmer the Ring can get a grip of you. It is mentioned here and there in discussion, and obvious in the fall of Boromir:

Of the others only Gandalf might be expected to master him – being an emissary of the Powers and a creature of the same order, an immortal spirit taking a visible physical form. In the 'Mirror of Galadriel', 1381, it appears that Galadriel conceived of herself as capable of wielding the Ring and supplanting the Dark Lord. If so, so also were the other guardians of the Three, especially Elrond.
But this is another matter. It was part of the essential deceit of the Ring to fill minds with imaginations of supreme power.
... If Gandalf proved the victor [using the One against Sauron], the result would have been for Sauron the same as the destruction of the Ring; for him it would have been destroyed, taken from him for ever. But the Ring and all its works would have endured. It would have been the master in the end.
- Letter 246

'...True-hearted Men, they will not be corrupted. We of Minas Tirith have been staunch through long years of trial. We do not desire the power of wizard-lords, only strength to defend ourselves, strength in a just cause. And behold! in our need chance brings to light the -Ring of Power. It is a gift, I say; a gift to the foes of Mordor. It is mad not to use it, to use the power of the Enemy against him. The fearless, the ruthless, these alone will achieve victory. What could not a warrior do in this hour, a great leader? What could not Aragorn do? Or if he refuses, why not Boromir? The Ring would give me power of Command. How I would drive the hosts of Mordor, and all men would flock to my banner!'
Boromir strode up and down, speaking ever more loudly: Almost he seemed to have forgotten Frodo, while his talk dwelt on walls and weapons, and the mustering of men; and he drew plans for great alliances and glorious victories to be; and he cast down Mordor, and became himself a mighty king, benevolent and wise.
- FotR; The Breaking of the Fellowship

‘Comfort yourself!’ said Gandalf. ‘In no case would Boromir have brought it to you. He is dead, and died well; may he sleep in peace! Yet you deceive yourself. He would have stretched out his hand to this thing, and taking it he would have fallen. He would have kept it for his own, and when he returned you would not have known your son.’
...
[Denethor:] ' Nay, it should have been kept, hidden, hidden dark and deep. Not used, I say, unless at the uttermost end of need, but set beyond his grasp, save by a victory so final that what then befell would not trouble us, being dead.’
... ‘Nonetheless I do not trust you,’ said Gandalf. ‘Had I done so, I could have sent this thing hither to your keeping and spared myself and others much anguish. And now hearing you speak I trust you less, no more than Boromir. Nay, stay your wrath! I do not trust myself in this, and I refused this thing, even as a freely given gift. You are strong and can still in some matters govern yourself, Denethor; yet if you had received this thing, it would have overthrown you. Were it buried beneath the roots of Mindolluin, still it would burn your mind away, as the darkness grows, and the yet worse things follow that soon shall come upon us.’
- RotK; The Siege of Gondor

Now, what do this entail to?
Let us have a quick look at Hobbits - what is their relationship to life and the world?

Hobbits are an unobtrusive but very ancient people, more numerous formerly than they are today; for they love peace and quiet and good tilled earth: a well-ordered and well-farmed countryside was their favourite haunt.
... As for the Hobbits of the Shire, with whom these tales are concerned, in the days of their peace and prosperity they were a merry folk. They dressed in bright colours, being notably fond of yellow and green; ... And laugh they did, and eat, and drink, often and heartily, being fond of simple jests at all times, and of six meals a day (when they could get them). They were hospitable and delighted in parties, and in presents, which they gave away freely and eagerly accepted.
... Nonetheless, ease and peace had left this people still curiously tough. They were, if it came to it, difficult to daunt or to kill; and they were, perhaps, so unwearyingly fond of good things not least because they could, when put to it, do without them, and could survive rough handling by grief, foe, or weather in a way that astonished those who did not know them well and looked no further than their bellies and their well-fed faces. Though slow to quarrel, and for sport killing nothing that lived, they were doughty at bay, and at need could still handle arms.
- FotR; Prologue

And then a quick look at

Frodo looked at [Goldberry] questioningly. ‘He is, as you have seen him,’ she said in answer to his look. ‘He is the Master of wood, water, and hill.’
‘Then all this strange land belongs to him?’
‘No indeed!’ she answered, and her smile faded. ‘That would indeed be a burden,’ she added in a low voice, as if to herself. ‘The trees and the grasses and all things growing or living in the land belong each to themselves. Tom Bombadil is the Master. No one has ever caught old Tom walking in the forest, wading in the water, leaping on the hill-tops under light and shadow. He has no fear. Tom Bombadil is master.’
(...)
They begged him to come at least as far as the inn and drink once more with them; but he laughed and refused, saying:
"Tom's country ends here: he will not pass the borders.
Tom has his house to mind, and Goldberry is waiting!"
Then he turned, tossed up his hat, leaped on Lumpkin's back, and rode up over the bank and away singing into the dusk.
- FotR

`Could we not still send messages to him and obtain his help?' asked Erestor. `It seems that he has a power even over the Ring.'
`No, I should not put it so,' said Gandalf. `Say rather that the Ring has no power over him. He is his own master. But he cannot alter the Ring itself, nor break its power over others. And now he is withdrawn into a little land, within bounds that he has set, though none can see them, waiting perhaps for a change of days, and he will not step beyond them.'
- FotR; Council of Elrond

After all this, my point is that what Tom Bombadil and Hobbits share is that they are content. They are in one case powerful and in the others fairly powerless, yet what they share is a lack of ambition and desire for anything that the Ring try to offer: dominion, force to defeat foes and lordship over others.
As the Ring could not offer them anything they desired, perhaps because they desired so simple and small things - that they could do without - they were from little to not at all affected.


*** image removed, on the topic but breaking ToS http://i.imgur.com/WL3FU7B.jpg ***


If you do not concur that is fine, hope I shared an interesting alternative non the less, but let me leave you with one last quote on the topic, that defined this path of conclusion.
No better than JRR himself can I put it, than the scene when Sam had the Ring while Frodo was captured in the Tower of Cirith Ungol. The Ring tried to seduce Sam, but Sam proved a Hobbit at heart.

His thought turned to the Ring, but there was no comfort there, only dread and danger. No sooner had he come in sight of Mount Doom, burning far away, than he was aware of a change in his burden. As it drew near the great furnaces where, in the deeps of time, it had been shaped and forged, the Ring’s power grew, and it became more fell, untameable save by some mighty will.

As Sam stood there, even though the Ring was not on him but hanging by its chain about his neck, he felt himself enlarged, as if he were robed in a huge distorted shadow of himself, a vast and ominous threat halted upon the walls of Mordor. He felt that he had from now on only two choices: to forbear the Ring, though it would torment him; or to claim it, and challenge the Power that sat in its dark hold beyond the valley of shadows.

Already the Ring tempted him, gnawing at his will and reason. Wild fantasies arose in his mind; and he saw Samwise the Strong, Hero of the Age, striding with a flaming sword across the darkened land, and armies flocking to his call as he marched to the overthrow of Barad-dûr. And then all the clouds rolled away, and the white sun shone, and at his command the vale of Gorgoroth became a garden of flowers and trees and brought forth fruit. He had only to put on the Ring and claim it for his own, and all this could be.

In that hour of trial it was the love of his master that helped most to hold him firm; but also deep down in him lived still unconquered his plain hobbit-sense: he knew in the core of his heart that he was not large enough to bear such a burden, even if such visions were not a mere cheat to betray him. The one small garden of a free gardener was all his need and due, not a garden swollen to a realm; his own hands to use, not the hands of others to command.

- RotK; The Tower of Cirith Ungol

~~~

If you do wonder still, why could Tom do what he did, irrelevant of whether he got influenced or not, I can share my lack of wonder on that topic.

Even if the specific nature is not settled, the common consensus is that Tom is a spiritual creature of a kind.
Tom put the Ring on, and did not become invisible. Not the first case however: we have no sign that Sauron was ever invisible when he wore It. And that make sense - using the One made Men (incl. Hobbits) invisible because It brought them into the "wraith-world", but Sauron existed in that world and took a physichal body by choice, he don't need to be brought into the spirit realm because he's there already; same I judge apply to Tom Bombadil.

Secondly he could see Frodo - which is also a result from the mortal enter the "wraith-world", and to me the same logic apply.

'You were in gravest peril while you wore the Ring, for then you were half in the wraith-world yourself, and they might have seized you. You could see them, and they could see you.'(...)
' The Riders made straight for you, as soon as you fled. They did not need the guidance of their horses any longer: you had become visible to them, being already on the threshold of their world.'
- Gandalf to Frodo, FotR; Many Meetings


' ... the Elven-wise, lords of the Eldar from beyond the furthest seas. They do not fear the Ringwraiths, for those who have dwelt in the Blessed Realm live at once in both worlds, and against both the Seen and the Unseen they have great power.'
- Gandalf, FotR; Many Meetings

[Withwnar]

Nice quotes, as always.

If you do not concur that is fine

Me? No, I agree with what you're saying, which agrees with what I was saying: not quite everybody is corruptible by the Ring. Tom is a very special exception though.

I'm not sure that Hobbits in general are immune. It got Frodo in the end, and maybe Sam too would have succumbed if he had held it for long enough.

[Flinn]

also, Smeagol was a Hobbit, and he surely did fall to the One.

edit: correct me if I'm wrong, but I also guess that for the Hobbits, with their limited "innate powers", it was easier to resist the temptation; it was Gandalf himself that said that the more powerful was the wielder, the easier would be to be tempted: under this light I see the quick fall of Isildur (he could have surely made a lot with the One on his finger), while on the contrary the humility of Sam was his best defence against the temptation (I can't provide the quotes, but I'm relating to when he has visions of himself becoming the hero of the age and immediatly after he accepted his own real nature, admitted that the One would have dominated him and consequently resisted it)

[Ngugi]

Nice quotes, as always.

If you do not concur that is fine

Me? No, I agree with what you're saying, which agrees with what I was saying: not quite everybody is corruptible by the Ring. Tom is a very special exception though.

I'm not sure that Hobbits in general are immune. It got Frodo in the end, and maybe Sam too would have succumbed if he had held it for long enough.

Thanks!
Meant "you" as in the reader, any reader, as it felt as an argumentation of mine presentedt o the public and no longer to anyone specific hehe

Immune no, certainly they are not, only more resistant, I argue, because they in general mentality held no dreams of grandeur that the Ring could use against them.
There are Hobbits who probably would fallen as soon as anyone else, such as Lotho Sackville-Baggins who desired to rule his fellow Hobbits and control them through Saruman's ruffians up till the Scouring of the Shire, or if Smeagol is a hint. But when the utopia of a Hobbit generally is as simple and plain as a Hobbit hole with a garden, peace and six meals a day, then the offer of lordships and political power and wealth etc. is of limited value, and the Hobbit proves more resilient than other races.
I would not even call Tom immune, because the word imply he could not be affected by the One, and I do not think it's so, but that Tom's lack of interest in anything the One tried to lure him with simply meant he would not be affected by the One.


EDIT:
@ Flinn
Think you find some of the matters you think of in my wall of quotes above.

[Matamelcan]

also, Smeagol was a Hobbit)

I do believe he was not, but I may be incorrect. His folk lived along the Anduin, akin to hobbits but not truly hobbits as they were still of the race of Man.

[Flinn]

I'm not a lore master like Ngugi (mommy, we miss you ), but I do remember that even if Gandalf said that he was of a race akin to that of the Hobbits, there was also plenty of hints that he was infact a hobbit. By the time of the War of the Ring he was around 550, which means that at the time of his birth the Hobbits were already a well developed race (for instance, they started to colonize the Shire sometimes around 1000 years before).

More can be read here and here. The source is very reliable (my favorite actually) and if you are interested in lore, you would probably have a look at it (more good ones can be found in the first post).

However, welcome to TWC dude, it's great to house another Tolkien's fan