Dwarf Armageddon

[LuckyPistol]

Okay, as embarrassing as this is, I've come to an all time low in campaign mess ups. Trying out Dwarve for the first time, and its not going well. After attempting to turtle due to a horrible fight with Rhun and OotMM, I've lost all territory in the east from the combine efforts of Rhun, OotMM, and the Silvan Elves who I somehow managed to piss off Dale has basically forsaken our friendship. I'm left with the starting Dwarf cities on the west and that one bandit town above the high elves (can't remember the name).

Normally, I WOULD go straight to OoG, but Eriadorand the High Elves blitzed the crap out of them, and I can't get military access from either of them :/

So....do I attack Eriador? I'd have to break my alliance and lower my reputation.....but I can't seem to get anywhere.

I'm stumped, to say the least :I

[DrDragun]

Ouch, you cut off your AOR units too. Dragonslayers are trained from Wormcove and Dains Halls; Axemen of Erebor from Erebor.

I say you make like Balin and put together a party to take Moria. There is big money there with Mithril Mines and awesome Kazad-Dum units. March through Isengard territory if you must. Or you can take boats to attack Isengard through its coastline (can dwarves build boats I forget? Maybe you can get merc boats).

Take Isengard too while you are there, then you got 2 settlements that make 2000+ income per turn and can train heavy units. Buy Fanghorn if Rohan owns it, or conquer it from Isengard, and now your new empire is all connected up.

[Maiar93]

Yep. Turn it into a migration campaign: gather all your armies and set out for Moria.

Write an AAR out of it while you're at it, too. Will be very interesting.

[Mikail Mengsk]

Yep. Turn it into a migration campaign: gather all your armies and set out for Moria.

Write an AAR out of it while you're at it, too. Will be very interesting.

*this.

[LuckyPistol]

Write an AAR out? Don't think I've done that before....

What about Eriador? Do I just pass through their territory non-chalantly? I don't want to lower relations because I think that's what happened with the Silvans, and I know the AI has no shame in closing in around an ally, breaking the alliance, and then attacking :/ But after Moria should I go for Isengard or take the rest of the OotMM?

[DrDragun]

Write an AAR out? Don't think I've done that before....

What about Eriador? Do I just pass through their territory non-chalantly? I don't want to lower relations because I think that's what happened with the Silvans, and I know the AI has no shame in closing in around an ally, breaking the alliance, and then attacking :/ But after Moria should I go for Isengard or take the rest of the OotMM?

Some things that might keep Eriador happy are to gift map information, or you could conquer a useless remote Isengard village and gift it to keep them from getting to hostile. Pay attention to the relations screen.

Don't completely eliminate OotMM until your economy is repaired. They will get many big armies before they are eliminated, and taking their final settlements will be tedious. When they are below 3 settlements the game will trigger them to get a free big army.

When you first take Moria, it will give good money but you will not be able to recruit units for 10-15+ turns due to culture. Your job during this time is to survive. It might be easier to take Isengard first because there is no Balrog, however it will not offer as much money as quickly, but it might be the safer choice. Dwarves are very good against Isengard units.

Use your generals to absorb the losses of small battles if you must fight them. Generals regenerate their bodyguard over time. Its safer to do this if your general has multiple hitpoint retinues to increase his life. These can be won from building blacksmiths and winning battles. If you have multiple generals in a stack, the main general will get rewards from great victories (either heroic victories or when more than 1000 enemies die) depending on which faction you defeated. However they cannot get more than 1 of the same, so drag and drop these items (for example Orc of the Misty MOuntain Armor +2 hitpoints) to your other generals in the same stack. The leader general will keep winning these items again and again until all your generals are equipped. Then it's safer to use your general in battle for absorbing losses, because you will not be able to retrain units for a long time after conquering Moria.

[deusvult6]

Is the Balrog always supposed to spawn as part of the garrison script?

As Eriador it was my second experience with these scripts and the first where I realized what was happening. All I got were a bunch of heavy units and a cave troll. They sallied, I retreated up the slope and obliterated them. One unit of archer militia took out the trolls all alone after I'd written them off. Still not sure how it happened.

[Mikail Mengsk]

Is the Balrog always supposed to spawn as part of the garrison script?

IIRC, yes.

[k/t]

Aren't there two Balrogs? One is part of the garrison script and the other comes after you build the mithril mines. That's what Withwnar said.

[Ngugi]

From the top of my head yes, though it depends on faction. The Balrog(s) spawns as part of the garrison script if another faction than OotMM, while if teh player is OotMM they can awaken the Balrog(s) trough building Mithril Mines (and perhaps some other factors, not played OotMM so far)

[divad]

@LuckyPistol
thank you for your story: I was certain dwarves were not an interesting faction because I thougt them invincible. But what happened to you proves I was wrong!
I am curious though: what is your level of difficulty? And what version, vanilla 3.2, a submod?

[deusvult6]

From the top of my head yes, though it depends on faction. The Balrog(s) spawns as part of the garrison script if another faction than OotMM, while if teh player is OotMM they can awaken the Balrog(s) trough building Mithril Mines (and perhaps some other factors, not played OotMM so far)

So should I be worried that my vanilla 3.2 install is working improperly if no balrog spawned when I, as Eriador, seiged Moria owned by OotMM?

[DrDragun]

You sure OotMM still owned it? I saved Moria as the last settlement to take from OotMM, but their last family member came out in a stack and died on the field. The faction was destroyed and Moria became rebel. The garrison was several cave trolls but no Balrog.

[Ngugi]

Did you brought siege machines and attacked directly, it seems the scripts care for pushing the maintain siege button to spawn the Balrog and thus a direct attack will not bring him forth?
Otherwise it's wierd, but not alarming per se as scripts can randomly misbehave while working proper at all other times.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;########################## Balrog Arrival ############################
;----------------------------- AI ------------------------------
declare_counter deactivate_assaultsiege

monitor_event ButtonPressed ButtonPressed siege_maintain_button
	and I_CompareCounter deactivate_maintainsiege = 0
	and I_SettlementUnderSiege Misty-Mountains
	and I_SettlementOwner Misty-Mountains = hre
	and I_CompareCounter Misty-Mountains_Siege < 1
	and I_CompareCounter Misty-Mountains_Local = 0
		create_unit Misty-Mountains, Balrog2, num 1, exp 0, arm 0, wep 0
		historic_event balrog_ai event/balrog.bik
		set_counter deactivate_assaultsiege 1
terminate_monitor
end_monitor
 
declare_counter deactivate_maintainsiege

monitor_event ButtonPressed ButtonPressed siege_assault_button
	and I_CompareCounter deactivate_assaultsiege = 0
	and I_SettlementUnderSiege Misty-Mountains
	and I_SettlementOwner Misty-Mountains = hre
	and I_CompareCounter Misty-Mountains_Siege < 1
	and I_CompareCounter Misty-Mountains_Local = 0
		create_unit Misty-Mountains, Balrog2, num 1, exp 0, arm 0, wep 0
		historic_event balrog_ai event/balrog.bik
		set_counter deactivate_maintainsiege 1
terminate_monitor
end_monitor

;--------------------------- Player ----------------------------
monitor_event BuildingCompleted SettlementName Misty-Mountains
	and SettlementBuildingFinished = m_mines
	and not IsFactionAIControlled
	and I_TurnNumber >= 90
	historic_event balrog event/balrog.bik
	spawn_army 
	faction hre
	character	Balrog, named character, age 42, x 182, y 216, portrait Balrog
	traits LoyaltyStarter 1 , Balrog 1 , Slow 1 , ReligionStarter 1 , NightBattleCapable 1
		unit	Balrog		soldiers 1 exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
	end
	move_strat_camera 182, 216
	terminate_monitor
end_monitor

;############################# Ent spawn #############################

[LuckyPistol]

@LuckyPistol
thank you for your story: I was certain dwarves were not an interesting faction because I thougt them invincible. But what happened to you proves I was wrong!
I am curious though: what is your level of difficulty? And what version, vanilla 3.2, a submod?

Well with no cavalry or arhcers, the dwarves are far from invincible xD My difficulty was VH/VH and I use vanilla


But so far I'm doing fine, I took Isengard just before Rohan did, and now I'm prepping for a seige on Moria

[deusvult6]

You sure OotMM still owned it? I saved Moria as the last settlement to take from OotMM, but their last family member came out in a stack and died on the field. The faction was destroyed and Moria became rebel. The garrison was several cave trolls but no Balrog.

Very sure. It was the second settlement I took from them after Ost-in-Edhil. Thought I'd start with the toughest first and get those mines to boot. There were only a few units holding it, I sieged and the script spawned them up to most of a stack. They sallied the next turn and I just managed to pull a rout. It came as nasty surprise as I had only run into garrison scripting at Amon Sul before and I mistakenly attributed it to misreading the settlemnent card.

Did you brought siege machines and attacked directly, it seems the scripts care for pushing the maintain siege button to spawn the Balrog and thus a direct attack will not bring him forth?
Otherwise it's wierd, but not alarming per se as scripts can randomly misbehave while working proper at all other times.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;########################## Balrog Arrival ############################
;----------------------------- AI ------------------------------
declare_counter deactivate_assaultsiege
 
monitor_event ButtonPressed ButtonPressed siege_maintain_button
    and I_CompareCounter deactivate_maintainsiege = 0
    and I_SettlementUnderSiege Misty-Mountains
    and I_SettlementOwner Misty-Mountains = hre
    and I_CompareCounter Misty-Mountains_Siege < 1
    and I_CompareCounter Misty-Mountains_Local = 0
        create_unit Misty-Mountains, Balrog2, num 1, exp 0, arm 0, wep 0
        historic_event balrog_ai event/balrog.bik
        set_counter deactivate_assaultsiege 1
terminate_monitor
end_monitor
 
declare_counter deactivate_maintainsiege
 
monitor_event ButtonPressed ButtonPressed siege_assault_button
    and I_CompareCounter deactivate_assaultsiege = 0
    and I_SettlementUnderSiege Misty-Mountains
    and I_SettlementOwner Misty-Mountains = hre
    and I_CompareCounter Misty-Mountains_Siege < 1
    and I_CompareCounter Misty-Mountains_Local = 0
        create_unit Misty-Mountains, Balrog2, num 1, exp 0, arm 0, wep 0
        historic_event balrog_ai event/balrog.bik
        set_counter deactivate_maintainsiege 1
terminate_monitor
end_monitor
 
;--------------------------- Player ----------------------------
monitor_event BuildingCompleted SettlementName Misty-Mountains
    and SettlementBuildingFinished = m_mines
    and not IsFactionAIControlled
    and I_TurnNumber >= 90
    historic_event balrog event/balrog.bik
    spawn_army 
    faction hre
    character    Balrog, named character, age 42, x 182, y 216, portrait Balrog
    traits LoyaltyStarter 1 , Balrog 1 , Slow 1 , ReligionStarter 1 , NightBattleCapable 1
        unit    Balrog        soldiers 1 exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
    end
    move_strat_camera 182, 216
    terminate_monitor
end_monitor
 
;############################# Ent spawn #############################

Thanks, I'll give it a look.

[Withwnar]

"terminate_monitor". So no, not always, only once will the garrison script Balrog appear. Maybe it has already happened (?). Plus it only works when OotMM are the owners.

[ElvenKind]

@deusvult6, you should sell Ost-in-Edhil to High Elves, it is their victory condition so they could start war against you if you own it.

[SuljicDamir]

Yeaa dont go into Moria ) Balrog is so strong With High Elfs i almoust losee

[Ngugi]

Right, this thread is generally discussing most else than the topic for which it was created for.
I've been a part of it indeed, but conclude that unless it swing back on topic and is confirmed as still being needed* I will close it down.



* The line

But so far I'm doing fine, I took Isengard just before Rohan did, and now I'm prepping for a seige on Moria

indicates to me whatever the situation was that called for this thread it's now passed?