DCI: Last Alliance - Open Beta released, NEW: 10 October 2020 new patch released, contains Ents - Wolves - Spiders crashes fix! (and more)

[Pyres Δt Varanasi]

I'll give you both right here, hehe. Duke has a point in that Sauron's ability to wield his power at will apperently was restricted to some degreecompaired to his capacity before Númenór sank , and Øctavia that Sauron with the Ring Sauron was stronger than before or after [thus during the period 1600-3441 Second Age].
But actually he was only artifically weaker without the Ring than with it. By which I mean that if I get in a car I can move much faster than on my legs, but when I step out of the car I can not move less fast than normally on my legs, I just can't move as fast as in a car that I got use too and other think of me being able to

However that Isildur took the Ring was not a matter of luck, as Sauron had already been defeated and was all but killed, Isildur just walked over and cut the Ring of the unopposing foe [as I read it: least we have no backing for the PJ version of it to be clear], and then the spirit left the incarnation fully.


EDIT: Some lore that may be fun:

Really nice like always Loremaster Ngugi .
I know PJ did damage the lore in the movies but I prefer the movie version of Sauron walking to Isildur and makes the mistake lowering down to grab him. I just can't stand the fact that Elendil and Gil-galad who compare to Sauron who is a Miar fought him and left him so cripple that Isildur just walked and cut his arm. I mean C'mon Sauron You ARE! Sauron greatest of the Mia before falling into darkness.

[Ngugi]

I understand the movies choice since they cut out both Gil-galad and Elendil, while they have restricted time to make Sauron to appear as an uncompairable threat.
Yet I did not like that the solution removed the valour of the sacrifice the Last Alliance made. In LotR Sauron himself was defeated trough a "chance", that unexpected happy chance that Gollum stole the Ring from Frodo, but in the LA it was the armies fighting for 11 years and the two 'above-humans' great kings with enchanted weapons giving their life to take him down. Now instead it is af if Sauron can never be taken down, it's always needed some random luck that one one hand makes the end of LotR less special and on the other hand make the LA's effort less impressive - to me that is hehe.

Also Sauron is not a Maia of physichal battle but of magic, craft and cunning. Three* times he physichally fight, or five where can be expected to fight*, in melee and two of three/four of five he is defeated. If it would been a matter of physichal battle capacity a Balrog would be deemed a greater danger than Sauron, which it is not, and that's not why he's dangerous. With a physichal body comes weakness to physichal harm and destruction; that's a pay off and risk Ainur accept when they take a body, as it also enables them to affect the physichal world.


* Sauron vs Huan [Silm.]
* Sauron vs Celebrimbor [UT]
* Sauron vs Gil-galad & Elendil (possibly with assistance from Isildur, Elrond and Círdan) [LotR, Silm.]

** Sauron at Sarn Ford [UT]
** Sauron at the Battle of the Gwathló [UT]

[Brune]

Ngugi

You're truely have Tolkien's spirit, i may start believe in rebirth.
Anyway nice story, as always.

[Ngugi]

Haha, well least a kindred spirit I may admit.
Have my own novel project that i hope to one day to share with the world, and then people may sit and discuss that lore as we do, a humble hope ^^
And, if it becomes a hit, it's not too unlikley folks will, as it's a 'historical fiction' where background staring some 200-500 years into the future, following the destruction of our civilization's fall and then ca 2000 years history in Africa, Asia and mainly Europa, with all what it's crucial histoical development with peoples, religion, wars, persons, agriculture, cultures, craftmanship etc etc century by century, year by year; just began writing on the first novel, and that after almost 10 years research and background writing
Two of my main (spiritual) inspirations considering fiction is Tolkien and Isaac Asimov's early works, while it should be added that until not 2 years ago I was certainly not very knowing about Tolkien's world, it grew as I like to discuss him here and like to discussions based on facts (oppinions and theories may come later but not as foundation for debates) and thus had to start checking what mr T really wrote and said

[Brune]

Isaac Asimov's early works

Ah, i remember Dr Susan Clvin inquiries bewitch me when i was a kid!
Good luck with your novel, but stay focus on DCI: LA until it's out.

[Macilrille]

I am fully with you on this one Ngugi. Sauron was a being more of magical power than combat, a singer of songs of magic, a necromancer and a conjurer of fell spirits, a corrupter and a scheemer. In contrast the Balrogs are beings of immense physical power, embodiments of the desructive parts of Melkor's mind whereas Gorthaur is one of his cunning and malevolence. He apparently also had the cowardly side of Morgoth, or realised that though powerful, he is not a specialist in combat- again, in contrast to the Valaraukar. It still took at least two of the great heroes of M-E to best him, but you could argue that Fingolfin or Fëanor could have done it alone; do not underestimate the physical and spiritual power of the Noldor that saw the light of Aman.

It is an interesting aspect (though it has nothing to do with Sauron) that like Gurthang and Turin, Narsil broke with its owner's fall- tied to him and nothing else could probably break them. And that the reforging of it as Anduril also signifies the rebirth of Elendil of a sort as described in UT - "Disaster at Gladden Fields".

Looking at the various names for Sauron would be useful in researching his nature too, I will have a look at that later. But for now, I am with Ngugi on this.

[Aragorn-Elessar]

This is going to be a beautiful submod

[Feanaro Curufinwe]

I am fully with you on this one Ngugi. Sauron was a being more of magical power than combat, a singer of songs of magic, a necromancer and a conjurer of fell spirits, a corrupter and a scheemer. In contrast the Balrogs are beings of immense physical power, embodiments of the desructive parts of Melkor's mind whereas Gorthaur is one of his cunning and malevolence. He apparently also had the cowardly side of Morgoth, or realised that though powerful, he is not a specialist in combat- again, in contrast to the Valaraukar. It still took at least two of the great heroes of M-E to best him, but you could argue that Fingolfin or Fëanor could have done it alone; do not underestimate the physical and spiritual power of the Noldor that saw the light of Aman.

It is an interesting aspect (though it has nothing to do with Sauron) that like Gurthang and Turin, Narsil broke with its owner's fall- tied to him and nothing else could probably break them. And that the reforging of it as Anduril also signifies the rebirth of Elendil of a sort as described in UT - "Disaster at Gladden Fields".

Looking at the various names for Sauron would be useful in researching his nature too, I will have a look at that later. But for now, I am with Ngugi on this.

Well, fortunately Tolkien gave quite a few names to Sauron.

Mairon was his original name as Maiar of Aule. It means ''Admirable". To me it indicates great skill, even for a Maia.
He was called Zigur by the Black Numenoreans. (Zigurun is a different version of the same) In Adunaic, Zigur means wizard, so it is more indicative of his prowess in ''Sorcery". It does not indicate a walking metallic behemoth, that's for certain.
In Numenor he called himself Tar-Mairon, a name which he could have possibly used later. It is his original name with the Royal prefix of ''Tar"
Artano is also given. I do not remember the exact translation, but I believe it has something to do with crafting.
Aulendil is mentioned as well, as a name he used for deception. It means ''Servant of Aule".
Annatar was the name he used in Eregion. It means ''Lord of Gifts".

I believe the various names bestowed to him by the Free Peoples are well known, and not worthy of mention. Except one. He was also known as the Deceiver, and possibly named so by either the Elendili or the Elves, both witnesses of his exploits in the field of deception.

All of these names indicate a person of great cunning and power in sorcery and craft. Even in his later days, he managed some great feats of manipulation. He tried to cripple the defense of Gondor from within by driving Denethor to despair and eventually insanity, he corrupted Saruman, the leader of the White Council and partially turned him to his aid, he managed to split his enemies so they could not cooperate effectively by skillful use of his armies, he brought his mightiest enemies to their knees with repeated strikes from plagues, invasions and long winter.

Not Jackson's metallic hulk.

[Lortano]

So basically by taking a royal name such as 'Tar' Sauron was basically calling himself 'King Admirable'? Not ego stroking there at all.

[Feanaro Curufinwe]

Yes. And even more funnily, he did it in Numenor where Kings used to use that prefix.

[Ngugi]

Not very surprising;

Then men grew afraid. 'Behold the Eagles of the Lords of the West!' they cried. 'The Eagles of Manwë are come upon Númenor!' And they fell upon their faces.Then some few would repent for a season, but others hardened their hearts, and they shook their fists at heaven, saying: 'The Lords of the West have plotted against us. They strike first. The next blow shall be ours!' These words the King himself spoke, but they were devised by Sauron.
Now the lightnings increased and slew men upon the hills, and in the fields, and in the streets of the city; and a fiery bolt smote the dome of the Temple and shore it asunder, and it was wreathed in flame. But the Temple itself was unshaken, and Sauron stood there upon the pinnacle and defied the lightning and was unharmed; and in that hour men called him a god and did all that he would.

[unless it's stated he did it before]

[SOUPtv]

My goodness this looks amazing, also really like your take on the lore Ngugi. Repped

[Ngugi]

@ Aragorn-Elessar & SOUPtv
Thanks fellows, it encourage the team to hear

[knight of meh]

Artano is also given. I do not remember the exact translation, but I believe it has something to do with crafting.

it's not exactly a name it's an epithet he used when he presented himself as Annatar , it means "high smith" in Quenya

[Flinn]

@ Aragorn-Elessar & SOUPtv
Thanks fellows, it encourage the team to hear

ahhh so I must say that I really look forward to try this submod, asap

[Ngugi]

it's not exactly a name it's an epithet he used when he presented himself as Annatar , it means "high smith" in Quenya

EDIT: Doh! NVM
Ought to read the debate properly before crashing into it

ahhh so I must say that I really look forward to try this submod, asap

Good god, more stress upon my decadent heart o.0

^^

[Flinn]

Good god, more stress upon my decadent heart o.0

^^

well I do what I can, to bring the water to my own mill, and you won't be the first to die for stress side-effects while dealing with me

jokes apart, thanks to all the guys here which are putting so much efforts on this, must rep them all (but can't rep you again, seems like I've fallen in love with the Ferrit ), but please urge on it, I can't wait anymore!!





EDIT: done, apparently I can't rep you as I said

[Ngugi]

That's the kind of Motivation better termed Threativation x)


Without hesitation I long ago got used to folks loving the Ferrit more than me hahaha
We're on to it; personally begun work with unit stats the other day, something I've dreaded due to the sensitive and massive scope of it. A true challenge it is, but creating a matrix to work from and think it will prove fine and fun gameplay

[Flinn]

That's the kind of Motivation better termed Threativation x)

Without hesitation I long ago got used to folks loving the Ferrit more than me hahaha

nemo propheta in patria, if I intended well what you said

[Ngugi]

That, or as the centurion war cry went; Rosea aurem regit