Divide and Conquer - Version 0.52 Released

[GetScared]

Hey, so i did some unit balancing on my own from playing as the dwaves of erebor just as i felt a few units were not up to par. Ill post them here just as suggestions to you guys!

I made the Erebor Mattock Warriors have an extra defense point in "shield" (because they do have one on their backs) as well as an extra "charge" stat so instead of 3 they have 4. This is because i felt they are meant to be an aggressor unit and should have a higher charge and on top of that I felt as though they died a little too easily> With these changes, I feel like they are definately more up to par as they do cost quite a bit more than the dwarven warriors who i almost felt were a better unit.

I also noticed while playing the Orcs of the misty mountains that they're "Goblin band" and "Goblin infantry" units had the same stats just with the infantry being more expensive so i gave them +1 to their charge just to make them slightly more aggressive type units and lowered their cost a bit

[GetScared]

Oh and also, sorry for double post, i just felt as though i should report these two bugs i encountered.
The first is something I remember reporting before around when .5 was first released I believe, and that is that one of my generals, Gimili in this case, has maxed out "dread" despite in this case actually, not having ANY at all traits or retinue that cause dread. In fact he starts the game with almost maxed out respect. The only thing ive done with him is win lots of battles against the OOTMM and always execute prisoners, but even then, he has the "noble in battle" trait.
This also wasnt gradual at all, it sort of just happened. Turn 14 he was maxed out respect, then go to move him on turn 15 and hes maxed out dread.

The second bug is an in battle bug, I just noticed that when I paused and clicked an enemy unit to see the stats, my game started lagging a ton, and it seemed to randomly go away as when i tried slowing down the time and decreasing graphics, neither of those helped at all.
Even then, my computer is a tank, I have a GTX 970 and 8gs of RAM. Lag should not happen in a 2006 engine lol

[Infidel144]

i might need some tips in my erebor campaign (VH\VH)

...
i might restart this campaign, if anyone could leave some tips to overcome this i would be grateful

Can you post your save game?

[alcosta]

I liked a lot of the load screen shots where I think they to use as wallpaper.

[alcosta]

I liked a lot of the load screen shots where I think they to use as wallpaper.

I liked a lot of the load screen shots where I think they to use as wallpaper ?*

[Discord1996]

You need something to open the .tga files. I know that gimp works, then you need to save it as .jpg now you can use them as your wallpaper.

On another note. I am playing as Khand and as you may know you can only get 1 Brotherhood unit type in 1 city/castle. The thing is, the Lancers and the Bows are far better than the Swords and Axes which makes the latter 2 just units you get for varieties sake. Sure they are very strong units but everybody knows that cavalry just gets the job done better. I don't know how to approach this, making 1 Infantry and 1 Cavalry availlable could be too much as they are pretty strong units.

[Baron von Manteuffel]

Which units and how specifically?

It's an interesting campaign because they're always being attacked. The problem I had was Rohan's units get decimated in battle. Why is their militia spearmen (low, untrained) so much weaker than Gondor militia? Their armour stat is really low too compared with Gondor's militia. The Rohan Scouts are really weak too with (low, untrained). I changed all of Rohan's unit stats slightly in my export_descr_unt.txt so their infantry is slightly weaker than Gondor's, but their cavalry is slightly stronger than Gondor's. Now in battle they can hold their own without getting their butt handed to them, though the battle I just fought against Isengard was still a tough one.

[Tigerblades559]

Sorry for the very late reply

So my game keeps crashing. It crashes every 5 - 15 turns. It will just crash when I have pressed end turn and is about to return to me. When it does almost get back to my turn the game goes into a black screen and says "Medieval 2 total war has encountered a unspecific error" I then have to go into my task manager to close the game.

I checked my logs like you said but the file was empty. I deleted map.rwm, Deleted descr_geography new and I deleted all the string text files. But I am still encountering the same problem.

It is really frustrating as it always stops me from getting into the game and crashing when it finally starts to flow. It doesn't happen because of any certain conditions it just randomly happens.

Please help, I love the mod.

[Hummingbird]

Keep in mind that Gondor Militia and Cavalry Militia still requires a Town Guard and Stables whilst Rohan Eorling Militia and Scouts can be trained straight out of the farms, no military buildings required. So Gondor's "militia" units are effectively one tier above Rohan's. Gondor Militia vs Eorling Swordsmen and Gondor Cavalry Militia vs Rohan Riders is a fairer comparison.

Also Rohan's cavalry roster is a heck of a lot more than 'slightly' better than Gondor's. Put the two alongside each other and it really is no contest, Rohan blow them away in the cavalry department in every single way.

[Baron von Manteuffel]

Keep in mind that Gondor Militia and Cavalry Militia still requires a Town Guard and Stables whilst Rohan Eorling Militia and Scouts can be trained straight out of the farms, no military buildings required. So Gondor's "militia" units are effectively one tier above Rohan's. Gondor Militia vs Eorling Swordsmen and Gondor Cavalry Militia vs Rohan Riders is a fairer comparison.

Also Rohan's cavalry roster is a heck of a lot more than 'slightly' better than Gondor's. Put the two alongside each other and it really is no contest, Rohan blow them away in the cavalry department in every single way.

Seriously what difference does it make how or where a military unit is recruited? Whether it is a building or straight from a farm you know the unit would receive some training. If two different units are using the same leather armour, then why the difference in the stats? Example, compare Gondor Levy Spearmen, and Rohan Militia Spearmen stat_pri_armour and stat_mental. Thank you.

[Hummingbird]

Again. There's a tier structure in effect. And it's based more on that structure rather than the units' naming conventions or aesthetic appearance. It'll go something like this:

Rohan
Militia: Farmhand Archers, Farmhand Pikemen, Eorling Militia, Scouts
Basic: Eorling Archers, Eorling Swordsmen, Eorling Axemen, Rohan Spearmen, Rohan Riders, Eored Horsearchers
Medium: Eored Heavy Footmen, Eored Heavy Lancers
Elite: Royal Guard, Guards of Meduseld

(then you'll have various AoR units that sort of 'float' between tiers like Helmingas, Guard of the Caves and Riddermark units)

Gondor
Militia: Farmhand Pikemen, Farmhand Archers
Basic: Gondor Cavalry Militia, Gondor Militia, Archer Militia, Territorial Guardsmen, Peacekeepers
Medium: Gondor Cavalry, Gondor Archers, Gondor Infantry, Gondor Spearmen
Elite: Citadel Guard

(and again lots of AoR units that are usually tier x-and-a-half such as Blackroot Vale Archers or Guards of Osgiliath and so on).

[Ngugi]

Seriously what difference does it make how or where a military unit is recruited?

If you're actually interested, the answer is: huge.
As everone who work with roster balance can tell you, unit stats is only a part of the total unit and roster balance (even if it may seem otherwise), even cost, upkeep, recruitment turns, culture requirments and pool sizes aside (and we have to take all these things into account, too, hehe).

Simply consider, what is the total cost for a Town Guard + a Stable, comapired to the cost for a farm? How many Eorling Milita and Scouts can you acquire for that difference? And how many Eorling Militia and Scouts can you afford, taking into account the improved income and pop growth from the farm, over the same time, but also over say 50 or 100 turns?
Further, how many turns does it take to construct a Town Guard + a Stable compaired to the turns for the farm? How many Eorling Militia and Scouts will become avilable in that time - as in, from when you start to construct a farm as Rohan until you get a Eorling Milita and/or Scout, compaired to the time you start to construct both buildings so you can recruit the two Gondor units, and then compair the amount of avilable Militia and cavalry units from either faction over 100 turns?
Now you multiply these calculations with the amount of starting regions, and also consider captured settlements over time in a campaign.
A unit may be somewhat weaker in the clash of a single battle, but in the course of a war it may non the less be the equal in cost and availability, even be superior due to numbers, irrevelant of the attack of defence stats.

And then, as Hummingbird is hinting at, a units value is also a part of a tactical context.
If the faction's strength is in cavalry, then an infantry unit is there to operate as an anvil, presumably not as a force in its own right. If it was stronger it would cost more, and thus reduce the amount of at a point usable cavalry, at any given budget. If this anvil is not as capable compaired to another unit, you also will find that when properly balanced the hammer is also better, and the anvil itself cheaper.
This tactical context, and ultimately startegical context, as each part shall always aim to make battle at own chosen ground, is not the same for different factions, and a proper stat level in one context will be different from another.

King Kong murmored at a point what I I prefere to put in plain words of my own: "Actual balance is a hell of a job". ^^

[Happycupcake]

I also noticed while playing the Orcs of the misty mountains that they're "Goblin band" and "Goblin infantry" units had the same stats just with the infantry being more expensive so i gave them +1 to their charge just to make them slightly more aggressive type units and lowered their cost a bit

Goblin band is a spear unit with form schiltrom ability while Goblin infantry is a regular sword unit without any special abilities.

[Tigerblades559]

Sorry for the repost, really would like some help.

Sorry for the very late reply

So my game keeps crashing. It crashes every 5 - 15 turns. It will just crash when I have pressed end turn and is about to return to me. When it does almost get back to my turn the game goes into a black screen and says "Medieval 2 total war has encountered a unspecific error" I then have to go into my task manager to close the game.

I checked my logs like you said but the file was empty. I deleted map.rwm, Deleted descr_geography new and I deleted all the string text files. But I am still encountering the same problem.

It is really frustrating as it always stops me from getting into the game and crashing when it finally starts to flow. It doesn't happen because of any certain conditions it just randomly happens.

Please help, I love the mod.

[Glaumir]

Trying to add to the discussion about balance above, you also have to consider the issue of balancing AI (with it's cash bonus, instantaneous recruitment and complete ineptitude in maintaining a reasonable cash flow or choosing strategically important battles) against AI and AI against player. I think DaC's system is very, very good and you can note that by the consistent play experiences across the multiple factions (the ND are always making do with little, Gondor resists for a long time but gradually fades without intervention, etc). Mess a little with EDU and (specially) EDB, and you will see how the smallest changes have huge significance over multiple turns - a 0.05 addition to a unit recruitment pool means an extra unit every 20 turns; if this same unit can be recruited from two different places, that's one extra unit every 10 turns; if the building that produces the unit also brings in economic benefits, it's likely you will push it forward in the CQ, making the unit even more common... all this can make the game trivial in the hands of a player who takes care not to lose units (which is pretty much everyone who is still playing Med2).

On a side note, though, I realized I tend to rely a lot on general's bodyguards when playing DaC and watching AG videos (it's very entertaining, BTW!), it seems he does too. I am not particularly fond of that, even though the Legendarium is all about the big roles individual heroes play (the actions of a single person like Frodo or Fëanor often have more repercussions than those of entire armies), so I am slowly trying to balance the game in a way to have more units in the field. So far I have been completely unsuccessful, though : my changes to the ND (which are part of my efforts to bring Arnor back into the game, 'cause I simply have to play Arnor) have made them so OP that they completely obliterate Angmar in 70-90 turns. In my last Imladris campaign they even turned against Ered Luin and are beating the dwarves down!

[mouadmessi]

Hello everyone i hope you are fine , i wonder where are the new mirkwood elves units (thranduil's realm) from the "hobbit" trilogy that are supposed to be in the .5 versionof DAC ??? and thanx in advance!

[Baron von Manteuffel]

Thank you Ngugi and Hummingbird for your insightful comments. I went back to the original export_descr_unit.txt !

[dwarfDwalin]

There is some bugs with Dunland. Some of the script messages have a Medieval 2 Total War pictures and in the texts there is a few mistakes. Hope that was helpful.

[s-t-a-v-k-a]

Hi,
seems i have found a bug? i tried to play the Dwarves of Erebor serveral times! And always around Turn 10-15 when i checked Gloin or Gimli, one or sometimes both lost 1-2 Respect and every time i checked them again they lost 2 Respect and all Obedience they had. When they they havent any Respect they start to get Fear till it maxxed out! When i killed them and i trained a other General it starts again with the new General until he has 0 Obedience and maxxed Fear!
Have no idea how to fix it (installed TATW and mod serveral times) but always te same. When i start to play Dawrves of Ered, i have the same bug tried 2 times, got it always around Turn 20 with one of there Generals!
Any1 has an idea how to fix it? Or has somone the same problem?

[d'Asseaux]

I've begun testing v. 0.52. The mod seems to be bug-free, excluding some occasional CTDs that are rare and - that's more important - irregular.
There are some pieces of feedback.

This time I've started as Gondor. I began constructing townhalls, seized Ithilien and two rebel provinces to the West of Gondor starting territory, laid siege to Minas Morgul and crushed all the Mordor armies sent from the Black Gate. Everything was fine. But then I got an invasion declared upon Minas Tirith while Enedwaith trespassed on my new western territories. The show began.
Here is the situation as of 20th turns of the campaign:

Minas Tirith. I defeated a half-stack of Harad, chasing the High Chief Khuzaimah to the Black Marsh (he lost all his bodyguards and remained the only survivor, exclusive of one archer unit), then two full stacks of Mordor, led by Nazguls, then one more stack of Angmar. Now I'm preparing for a harsh battle against half-stack of Isenguard (trolls of the White Hand, uruk-hais and warg-mounted general), accompanied by Harad remnants (Khuzaimah dared to return under walls of Minas Tirith) and Mordor Nazgul (one more remnant). Trolls are hard, but acceptable as I prepared enough troops.

Minas Ithil. Initially I haven't planned to take Minas Morgul, because when sieged it served as a shield against countless Mordor stacks from Gorgoroth. So I interrupted the siege several times to renew it and to prevent its fall. But finally I delayed for too long an attack at a Mordor stack, which came from the North, and the stack attacked Boromir army, sieging Minas Morgul. Both armies (the stack and Morgul's garrison) were destroyed, but Minas Morgul was taken by Boromir. And when he was thinking what to do with that huge fortress where no unit can be trained, he got himself besieged by Mordor army with Nazg-hai. A tough slaughter it was, but Fountain guard with Lossarnach axemen won the day. They demolished most of the Mordor troops while trolls were exterminating archers upon the gates. Now orcs regularly try to get Monas Ithil back, but it's much easier (there has been no barrack event yet).

Ithilien. Shortly after I captured Ithilien Harad sent a stack to take it, but I raised the garrison substantially and the stack went away (maybe because Dol-Amroth destroyed another Harad stack, sieging one of its cities). Currently the most calm front.

Hennet Anun. Nothing unusual. Some Mordor stacks from Morannon occasionally attack the fortress, but are decimated by Ithilien rangers even on the way to Gondor infantry. The only unpleasant (in fact, very, very disturbing) thing is that enemy's ram every time gets stuck in front of the gates. The only way to make it moving is to decrease the amount of the soldiers, carrying the ram, below 6 - in such a case another unit takes the ram and there is some chances they'll break the gates.

Far West (i.e. Enedwaith). The most difficult direction at the moment. Enedwaith sends its troops quite often by 1/2-3/4 stacks and with lots of nasty javelin throwers, while Gondor recruitment opportunities are very limilted in that region. I started to send reinforcements from the neighboring provinces, but the Mouth of Sauron, who has just returned from his diplomatic trip on the North states, fell into a habit to bribe my units one by one, so almost no one of reinforcement troops reached the destination point. It's a real problem, because I have currently no assassins and don't like to have any from roleplay considerations.

Other factions still haven't done anything outstanding. Misty as usual in 0.5 are have the most powerfull army. Dol-Amroth withstood initial assault of Harad and now seems to get upper hand.

And a couple of questions.
1) As the team has already issued two patches per relatively short period of time, I wonder whether there is any new patch or minipatch coming soon (except possible Teutonic family tree fix)? So can I start a long campaign (I'm generally a "turtle-player") or had better to launch some short testing campaigns? In the latter case may be I can test some special features for the mod developers?

2) Playing as Enedwaith I found that maintaining cost of "outlaws" unit is relatively high: >200 gold. It looks quite strange, given some much better Enedwaith units have maintaining cost around 180. Outlaws are of Enedwaith base roaster and Enedwaith is far from being rich at the campaign start. What about lowering their cost?

3) Are orcs invasions into Ered Luin and Lindon among the first priorities for the upcoming patches? I haven't tested Ered Luin yet, but its gameplay seems to be too easy without orc attacks. Such invasions could also help to slow down the rise of the AI western dwarves, as Ered Luin seems to be overpowered now. If it wasn't cornered by Bree it could become a superpower.
If you have a different point of view, please, comment on.