The Custodian Guard (Adeptus Custodes)

[Ulysses S. Grant]

There is a lot of speculation about the true skills and power of the Custodian Guard. How do you think the Imperiums Enemies in the 41st Millenium would react to facing the Custodian Guard on the battlefield?


(This thread is a precursor to a Custodian Army Ruleset that i'm working on)

 

[Ratzor]

Well since they're kind of the innerchamber guard of the über-emperor-of-kicking-everything-in-the-teeth I would say they would fair very good against any threat. They would be extremely low in numbers though. Like 2 per squad.

 

[Pickle_mole]

Is there anything written that mentions their number?

 

[Ratzor]

Is there anything written that mentions their number?

As Ulysses mentioned in another thread there was at least a thousand of them accompanying the emperor to one epic battle agaisnt orcs from the galaxy core.

I also found this quote on the lexicanum:

A small elite of three hundred Custodes, known as the Companions, form the Emperor's personal bodyguard and never leave his side. Due to the vast size of the Imperial Palace, the Custodes always act as a defensive army1. The Custodes themselves never leave Terra, and only rarely leave the Palace.

Edit: The lexicanum also states that the Custodes often worked seperately but did occasionally work in groups.

 

[Lord of the Drunk Penguin]

So they're most likely to turn corners and run towards a more defensive position...

 

[Ratzor]

So they're most likely to turn corners and run towards a more defensive position...

I think not. I think they would send the enemy around the corner to find a more defensable position.

 

[Manco]

If they didn't blow up the corner first.

 

[Aetius]

" [During the Great Crusade] One battle they [Adeptus Custodes] did partake in was when forces from the Imperial Fists, Luna Wolves and Death Guard were battling and being overrun by Orks. Together with the Emperor, a thousand Custodes teleported into the heart of the Ork army. While the Emperor fought and killed the Ork Warboss, the Custodes killed a hundred thousand Orks, while losing three Custodes. To honour the fallen Custodes, the Emperor engraved their names onto his chest plate, further proving the respect held for the Custodes. "


The Custodes are nigh unstoppable warriors. They are believed to be from the Emperor himself, inheriting his gene-seed.

 

[Ratzor]

Wich would make them all primarchs?

 

[Sanguinary Guardian]

Those facing the Custodes would run for it I think...if a Waagh! can't stop them, nothing will....

 

[Ulysses S. Grant]

Is there anything written that mentions their number?

" [During the Great Crusade] One battle they [Adeptus Custodes] did partake in was when forces from the Imperial Fists, Luna Wolves and Death Guard were battling and being overrun by Orks. Together with the Emperor, a thousand Custodes teleported into the heart of the Ork army. While the Emperor fought and killed the Ork Warboss, the Custodes killed a hundred thousand Orks, while losing three Custodes. To honour the fallen Custodes, the Emperor engraved their names onto his chest plate, further proving the respect held for the Custodes. "


The Custodes are nigh unstoppable warriors. They are believed to be from the Emperor himself, inheriting his gene-seed.

That battle is described in more detail in the Collected Visions Book:

"There are reconed to be only a thousand of these elite warriors in total, although this is highly speculative. Only the Emperor and his inner circle know their exact number. Certainly only a thousand have ever been seen together at any one time, and then only once at the famous Battle of Gyros-Thravian, fought during the Great Crusade against the ork warlord Gharkhul Blackfang and his vast greenskin horde.

The Primarchs Horus, Rogal Dorn and Mortarion and their legions were vastly outnumbered and close to defeat when the Emperor lead an attack from his golden battle barge, the Bucephelus. At the head of a thousand Custodians, the Emperor struck at the very heart of the ork horde, confrunting Gharkhul atop a towering Gargant. As the Emperor decapitated the giant, black-skinned ork, the Custodians laid waste to the warlord's prime warriors. It is said that within moments over a hundred thousand reenskins died and the Waaagh! was broken. Legend has it that only three Custodians died at the battle, their names enshrined forever, engraved on the Emperors armour.''

Gharkul is that Massive Ork:

Spoiler

As for their Genetic Heritage:

'' The origins of the Custodian Guard are shrouded in myth and legend. They fought alongside the Emperor during the Unification Wars on Terra. Some say that the Custodian Guard are to the Emperor what the Space Marines are to the Primarchs; that the Emperors own genetic matrix was used in their creation and through this their loyalty to Him is assured. Others argue that the Custodians are not like the Emperor as a Space Marine is like his Primarch, and that some other source was used as a template for their physical and psychological form; a source that was lost during the anarchy of the Age of Strife. The truth will likely never be known.''




Also here is my unit list for the Army:

Spoiler

HQ

Custodian Centurion
Custodian Shield Captain
Custodian Envoy Captain

ELITES

Custodian Sentinels
Praetorian Foot Knights
Custodian Kataphracts
Custodian Envoys


TROOPS

Custodian Guard Squad
Custodian Tactical Squad


FAST ATTACK

Praetorian Jetbike Squad
Custodian Infiltrators

HEAVY SUPPORT

Brutus Support Squad
Custodian Ancient (Dreadnought)

DEDICATED TRANSPORTS

Land Raider
Land Raider Spartan
Emperors Gift APC

SPECIAL CHARACTERS

Constantin Valdor, Chief Custodian

Mikaelor Corbernus, Shield Captain

Justinian Arcadius, Custodian Sentinel

Haedo Emankon, Custodian Guardsman

Amon Tauromachian, Custodes Infiltrator

Sagittarus, Custodian Dreadnought

Artulon, Custodian Envoy

 

[Ratzor]

Is that picture incidentaly from a DOW mod? I remember seeing those models somewhere a long time ago.

Also, are you going to include any fan fiction on the battle? It would be awesome to read about something that epic. Not to mention the fact that the emperor himself was needed to prevail.

 

[Ulysses S. Grant]

Is that picture incidentaly from a DOW mod? I remember seeing those models somewhere a long time ago.

Nope its from the Horus Heresy: Collected Visions Book.

 

[Ratzor]

Nope its from the Horus Heresy: Collected Visions Book.

I could swear that I've seen that in a gaming forum. It looks very gamy as well.

 

[Lord of the Drunk Penguin]

" [During the Great Crusade] One battle they [Adeptus Custodes] did partake in was when forces from the Imperial Fists, Luna Wolves and Death Guard were battling and being overrun by Orks. Together with the Emperor, a thousand Custodes teleported into the heart of the Ork army. While the Emperor fought and killed the Ork Warboss, the Custodes killed a hundred thousand Orks, while losing three Custodes. To honour the fallen Custodes, the Emperor engraved their names onto his chest plate, further proving the respect held for the Custodes. "


The Custodes are nigh unstoppable warriors. They are believed to be from the Emperor himself, inheriting his gene-seed.

Oh yes !
Look at that limited field of vision,they can barely move their heads from left to right, looks at those big heavy broad shoulders, see how they sacrifice stealth and element of surprise in exchange for obviousness and loudness , notice those extremely heavy, super-heavy gargantuan boots and how they "augment" walking , you couldn't possibly hear them or see them a mile away in the deep confines of the Emperor's Palace, oh, no,no,neeou, they're almost ninjas, ninjas placed in golden frigiderators laced in more gold, as some sort of grotesque statues, they can Clickity-Clank their way and fall upon their unsuspecting foes, why look, gents, a mere child could snipe that evident eye socket from a far

Oh ye enemies of the Emperor, beware ! Fear these noisy elephants as they come sliding on the slabs of the palace's halls, silent as a drunken bull in a glass shop, fear their might and exageratedly long pointed-machinegun halebards!

And yes, I can keep my mouth shut most of the times, but faced with such flamboyant fanboyism I must shout out. And ofcourse, I only do this because I am jealous, that deep down I know it to be true, that a God that sits on a ever-growing throne of skulls is so much weaker then a God that's just rotting on a ever rusting throne of freshly killed psykers...
If you want bad-assery, please, learn from this guy , he kicked some Custodes arses back in the day:

Spoiler

And yes, my picture is epic-er then yours, altough it wins in brute finesse what it lack in excessive decorations...

 

[Ulysses S. Grant]

I could swear that I've seen that in a gaming forum. It looks very gamy as well.

It was used in Sabertooth Games Horus Heresy Card Game as well.

Oh yes !
Look at that limited field of vision,they can barely move their heads from left to right, looks at those big heavy broad shoulders, see how they sacrifice stealth and element of surprise in exchange for obviousness and loudness , notice those extremely heavy, super-heavy gargantuan boots and how they "augment" walking , you couldn't possibly hear them or see them a mile away in the deep confines of the Emperor's Palace, oh, no,no,neeou, they're almost ninjas, ninjas placed in golden frigiderators laced in more gold, as some sort of grotesque statues, they can Clickity-Clank their way and fall upon their unsuspecting foes, why look, gents, a mere child could snipe that evident eye socket from a far

Oh ye enemies of the Emperor, beware ! Fear these noisy elephants as they come sliding on the slabs of the palace's halls, silent as a drunken bull in a glass shop, fear their might and exageratedly long pointed-machinegun halebards!

And yes, I can keep my mouth shut most of the times, but faced with excessive fanboyism I must shout out. And ofcourse, I only do this because I am jealous, that deep down I know it to be true, that a God that sits on a ever-growing throne of skulls is so much weaker then a God that's just rotting on a ever rusting throne of freshly killed psykers...
If you want bad-assery, please, learn from this guy , he kicked some Custodes arses back in the day:

Spoiler

And yes, my picture is epic-er then yours, altough it wins in brute finesse what it lack in excessive decorations...

Its an Alright picture of Pre-Heresy Kharn. But even so the Custodians are just better.

 

[hellheaven1987]

They probably would do well against old enemies such as Orks and Chaos, but would screw up badly against new enemies such as Tyranid and Tau consider they hide in the Emperor's bedroom for 10k years.

 

[Ratzor]

They probably would do well against old enemies such as Orks and Chaos, but would screw up badly against new enemies such as Tyranid and Tau consider they hide in the Emperor's bedroom for 10k years.

Since a tyranid infestation is pretty similiar to a WAAAAGHH!!!!! I guess they would do fairly well against them. As for the Tau... I don't know.

 

[hellheaven1987]

Since a tyranid infestation is pretty similiar to a WAAAAGHH!!!!! I guess they would do fairly well against them. As for the Tau... I don't know.

Ya right, now I wonder why smurf fought Tyranid so difficultly.

 

[Col. Tartleton]

There are 10,000 if I recall. 300 of which are a first company type the Companions.

They're about equal physically to space marines but they've got better gear.

First the Emperor used Geno Troopers for the Unification Wars.
Then he made the Primarchs to be the best of the best created from his own genes.
Then he made the Custodes from his genes to form his Praetorians from scratch like the Primarchs.
Then he made the Astartes from the Primarchs because it was easier that way.

But the Astartes aren't worse per se. Just different. Astartes are Legions. Custodes are more like individuals. I'd put them with Astartes Veterans in terms of power. They're elite but still within the Marine stats and such.

Artificer Armor, Power Weapons standard and such. They're like Vanguard vets with artificer as a base.

 

[Poach]

Oh yes !
Look at that limited field of vision,they can barely move their heads from left to right, looks at those big heavy broad shoulders, see how they sacrifice stealth and element of surprise in exchange for obviousness and loudness , notice those extremely heavy, super-heavy gargantuan boots and how they "augment" walking , you couldn't possibly hear them or see them a mile away in the deep confines of the Emperor's Palace, oh, no,no,neeou, they're almost ninjas, ninjas placed in golden frigiderators laced in more gold, as some sort of grotesque statues, they can Clickity-Clank their way and fall upon their unsuspecting foes, why look, gents, a mere child could snipe that evident eye socket from a far

Oh ye enemies of the Emperor, beware ! Fear these noisy elephants as they come sliding on the slabs of the palace's halls, silent as a drunken bull in a glass shop, fear their might and exageratedly long pointed-machinegun halebards!

And yes, I can keep my mouth shut most of the times, but faced with such flamboyant fanboyism I must shout out. And ofcourse, I only do this because I am jealous, that deep down I know it to be true, that a God that sits on a ever-growing throne of skulls is so much weaker then a God that's just rotting on a ever rusting throne of freshly killed psykers...
If you want bad-assery, please, learn from this guy , he kicked some Custodes arses back in the day:

Spoiler

And yes, my picture is epic-er then yours, altough it wins in brute finesse what it lack in excessive decorations...

I don't think they were ever set up to be sneaky or ninja-like: they don't have to be.

You claim they have no field of vision in their helmets: the Space Marines manage just fine and, from DoW cutscenes, one can see that a Marine's helm is heavily computerised, with data feeds from sensors likely more than compensating for any loss of natural vision.

You also state their eye-socket as a weakness: nowhere in the fluff, tabletop game or video games is it stated that said weakness exists. For all we know, the eye sockets are decorative, to give their helmet a "facial" look, and that they see via cameras and data feeding into the helmet itself. The fact that a mere three fell while engaging an Orcish horde outnumbering them hundreds to one suggests that their armour is not easy to penetrate by any measure.

Continuing along the lines of that battle, you argue their halberd-guns are unweildy, or "exageratedly long pointed-machinegun halebards", as you called them. The fact that each individual soldier slaughtered tens if not hundreds of orcs with the weapon suggests that it is a practical tool for them and that they are masters in it's use.


Should the Palace be invaded, the Custodes would not ambush you: they would march on your position shoulder to shoulder, shrugging off your fire whilst pouring fire of their own (and we know bolters are destructive) onto your positions. Or, they would utilise the element of surprise by teleporting into your midst and decapitating scores of soldiers with every swing: they're 8 foot tall or something, those halberds will be very long and very heavy.

 

[hellheaven1987]

Should the Palace be invaded, the Custodes would not ambush you: they would march on your position shoulder to shoulder, shrugging off your fire whilst pouring fire of their own (and we know bolters are destructive) onto your positions. Or, they would utilise the element of surprise by teleporting into your midst and decapitating scores of soldiers with every swing: they're 8 foot tall or something, those halberds will be very long and very heavy.

It is said that Custodes generally taller than normal Space Marines, and may be an expert fighting Chaos since they have been doing that for 10k years in Emperor's basement.

 

[SinerAthin]

They are pretty awesome versus enemies in close quarter battle, hence I think they'd kick some serius ass vs Orks and Tyranids.

Their weakness is probably their numbers. Once the enemy brings in their airplanes and artillery, the custodes would be turned into smitherines, hence they'd need support from a larger force.

But close up against an enemy that is reckless enough to go close so them, they'd win against most.

 

[hellheaven1987]

But close up against an enemy that is reckless enough to go close so them, they'd win against most.

Great, now we can assume that blue berry xenos are going to rip those Custodes apart.

 

[Ulysses S. Grant]

There are 10,000 if I recall. 300 of which are a first company type the Companions.

They're about equal physically to space marines but they've got better gear.

First the Emperor used Geno Troopers for the Unification Wars.
Then he made the Primarchs to be the best of the best created from his own genes.
Then he made the Custodes from his genes to form his Praetorians from scratch like the Primarchs.
Then he made the Astartes from the Primarchs because it was easier that way.

But the Astartes aren't worse per se. Just different. Astartes are Legions. Custodes are more like individuals. I'd put them with Astartes Veterans in terms of power. They're elite but still within the Marine stats and such.

Artificer Armor, Power Weapons standard and such. They're like Vanguard vets with artificer as a base.

They are physically stronger and larger than regular Marines. They are also a lot more individualistic than a Space marine, which means they have a greater survival instinct.

I don't think they were ever set up to be sneaky or ninja-like: they don't have to be.

You claim they have no field of vision in their helmets: the Space Marines manage just fine and, from DoW cutscenes, one can see that a Marine's helm is heavily computerised, with data feeds from sensors likely more than compensating for any loss of natural vision.

You also state their eye-socket as a weakness: nowhere in the fluff, tabletop game or video games is it stated that said weakness exists. For all we know, the eye sockets are decorative, to give their helmet a "facial" look, and that they see via cameras and data feeding into the helmet itself. The fact that a mere three fell while engaging an Orcish horde outnumbering them hundreds to one suggests that their armour is not easy to penetrate by any measure.

Continuing along the lines of that battle, you argue their halberd-guns are unweildy, or "exageratedly long pointed-machinegun halebards", as you called them. The fact that each individual soldier slaughtered tens if not hundreds of orcs with the weapon suggests that it is a practical tool for them and that they are masters in it's use.


Should the Palace be invaded, the Custodes would not ambush you: they would march on your position shoulder to shoulder, shrugging off your fire whilst pouring fire of their own (and we know bolters are destructive) onto your positions. Or, they would utilise the element of surprise by teleporting into your midst and decapitating scores of soldiers with every swing: they're 8 foot tall or something, those halberds will be very long and very heavy.

There is a story in the collected visions where a group of 30 Custodians attack two hundred Thousand Son marines in a library on Prospero and utterly destroy them all (Including a Coven of Thousand Son Librarians).

 

[Aetius]

They are physically stronger and larger than regular Marines. They are also a lot more individualistic than a Space marine, which means they have a greater survival instinct.


There is a story in the collected visions where a group of 30 Custodians attack two hundred Thousand Son marines in a library on Prospero and utterly destroy them all (Including a Coven of Thousand Son Librarians).

That is probably exaggerated myth but regardless it would lead one to believe that they are nowhere near mere veteran space marines. I think they are each demi-primarchs. Probably all of them are hugely powerful psykers and near immortal with the best equipment and thousands of years of training.

 

[|Sith| Max]

yeah lets call em demi-primarchs with psyker powers. that sums it up well enough.

 

[Ulysses S. Grant]

Except they are not psykers. Not one of them. They are however highly resistant to psychic powers.

They are not demi-primarchs, but they are still much more powerful than a Space Marine. The methods used to create them are known only to the Emperor and they were the first (And most pure) genetically enhanced humans ever. They are created individually and each represents a huge investment in the Imperiums resources.

Also by saying their prowess is exaggerated myth is like saying the Primarchs whole back-story is exaggerated.


EDIT: The Army List is basically on a 1st Draft. I may post it here today.

 

[Carach]

would say astartes are more like children, and the custodes the older cousin (18+)

in their kind of mindsets i mean. one sees things in rather simplistic terms (we were made for war blah blah blah cant do anything else), the other sees a more realistic/long-term thing....as in, has matured, more 'wise'..)

im rubbish at explaining things....

 

[Ulysses S. Grant]

Well there is not too much difference in them really. Astartes are more of a match for a Custode than any other race. Thats why they only start to get killed in battles after the Heresy starts.