Scandza: Total War

[Dansk viking]

THIS IS THE OLD THREAD FOR SCANDZA: TOTAL WAR, FOR THE NEW RELEASE THREAD FOLLOW THIS LINK.

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A modification-project striving to create a series of modifications focusing on Scandinavia in the Migration Period,​

A ruthless and unforgiving period when Germanic tribes broke up from their homelands. This movement resulted in unrest and tribal wars as the invading tribes tried to gain new and more fertile lands from others. There have been many theories as to the reasons for this sudden time of unrest. The Huns may have driven tribes away from their homeland in the east, creating a wave of frightened people searching for new homes in the west and south. Others say that the reasons might also have been growth in population and changes in the climate, which made it to hard to live in the north. One can only guess.

The ancient historians wrote about tribes such as the Visigoths, Ostrogoths, Franks, Burgundians, Langobards, and other such tribes. These tribes were the ones that invaded the Roman Empire, but those were not the only tribes searching for new lands. The tribes that didn't invade Rome itself, the ones even further north of the borders, were not very interesting for the Roman scribes, and the few written sources are either vague or destroyed.

These tribes were also in movement in this period, the only thing that distinguished them from the above is that they only invaded other Germanic tribes. Those are the tribes that I want to depict in this modification.

The sources thoroughly depicting these tribes are not Roman, but rather later Germanic literature; the Beowulf poem, the Norse sagas, Saxo, Widsið, etc. And of course we get a ton of information from archaeology: bog deposits etc. It will be very difficult to reproduce this time of Scandinavian pre-history, but it must be done in the most plausible way (no Grendel monsters, trolls, dragons, etc.) while at the same time using the characters of legend to bring the lands of Scandza into life.

The time frame will be approximately 390-650 AD, with a focus on the earlier period.

The approximate area which the campaign map will cover (later versions set in the mid 5th century may include parts of the British Isles):

Check the progress reports posted in this thread, or follow the mod on ModDB

If you're interested in supporting the project and furthering its progress, I'm open to any suggestions you might have!


Signature Banners by Joar

Spoiler

Cinematic teaser

Archived and dormant versions

Spoiler

Amleth campaign (small-scale release - outdated)
Denmark in the 5th century

http://youtu.be/yKmanglUZpk

PLAYABLE BETA:

Download link: Files.fm
Mirror1: Gamefront.com
Mirror2: Uploading.com (uncheck the "Use Download Accelerator" underneath the countdown.)

No longer available. I've decided to no longer have this version uploaded, mostly since I lacked the rights to use some of the things included, and also because it's so outdated that it doesn't do justice to the final product that I wish to present.

For future uploads I'll use: ModDB


Beowulf campaign (dormant)

Spoiler

The factions(Outdated):

Spoiler

An overview of the factions will be posted here.

Cultures:
North Germanic
West Germanic
Romano-Germanic
Romano-British

Language groups:
North Germanic
Old Norse

West Germanic
Old English
Old Low German
Old High German
Old Frisian

Romano-Germanic
Old Low French
Latin

Romano-British
British/Welsh (?)
Latin


Factions:
North Germanic
Skjöldingar - Danish dynasty
Skilfingar - Swedish dynasty
Hríðelingar - West Geatish dynasty
Ylfingar - East Geatish dynasty
Vémundingar - Swedish/Geatish dynasty
Brandingar - West Geatish/Norwegian/Danish dynasty
Raumingar - Norwegian dynasty
Fróðingar - Heaðobardic/West Herulian dynasty

West Germanic
Aescingas - Kentish (Jutish) dynasty
Iclingas - Mercian (English) dynasty
Esingas - Bernician dynasty
Wulfingas - East Anglian dynasty
Aellingas - South Saxon (continental saxon) dynasty
Cerdingas - West Saxon dynasty
Bisingas - Thuringian dynasty
Folcwaldingas - Frisian dynasty

Romano-Germanic
Merovingi - Frankish dynasty

Romano-British
Ebrauc - British kingdom
Elmet - British kingdom

Estimated disposition:

Screenshots of the map (Outdated):

Spoiler

Northern Jutland:

Norwegian coast: More settlements will be added.

Old development board: http://z10.invisionfree.com/Imperium_Total_War/index.php?showforum=44
(Not being used anymore)

 

[Soggius Chippius]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

I'd play it. Big fan of any mods centered around Scandinavia, me.

 

[Agraes]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

You are welcome if you want to do a submod of ATW. We can give you a subforum if you wish.

There is already a submod about mythological ireland that have been started by Dol Guldur of the FATW team but it's paused now (and anyone who wish to help his work his welcome). There maybe another submod about the early years of the kingdom of Mercia.

 

[Antagonist]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

Looks interesting. I'd particularly think about contacting Hross, who was ATW's Germanic expert, and has a particular expert and expertise in that location and era IIRC.

Antagonist

 

[Gatto]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

Good idea! Could it be possible to have British Isles and Scandinavia on the same map in one of the next versions? After all most of the efforts of Scandinavians in that time were oriented in raids and invasions on Britain shores.
By the way what is the exact period encompassed by your mod?

 

[Agraes]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

AD 481-685 (from the crowning of Clovis to the battle of Dunnichen).

And some historical battles involve events from the late IVth, and most of Vth centuries. There have been some ideas with campaigns featuring Hengest, Vortigern, Ambrosius Aurelianus or Niall of the Nine Hostages for earlier periods, or the anglo-saxon heptarchy for later ones.

 

[max_minimod]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

I would be very interested in late ATW units for a 840AC Viking mod.
Can you ATW team PM me if that is possible?

 

[Dansk viking]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

Well, I actually haven't got a lot of time to work on this right now because of school and such...

I would also need a bit of help getting this mod to work, as i haven't got a lot of experience with modmaking.

To start with I would like to finish the map and decide which factions should be included. (maybe Danes, Jutes, English, Saxons, Suiones etc.)

We can give you a subforum if you wish.

I don't think it will be necessary yet (I have to see if the sub-mod gets anywhere), but thanks for the offer, I'll contact you if i reconsider

Good idea! Could it be possible to have British Isles and Scandinavia on the same map in one of the next versions? After all most of the efforts of Scandinavians in that time were oriented in raids and invasions on Britain shores.

I've been considering this options too, but this would make it difficult to have the English, Saxons and Jutes focus on Britain instead of just staying in their homelands. An option could be having an Anglo-Saxon faction...

If I decide not having britain in the mod, There would have to be some script making the population in the migrating tribe's lands decrease...

By the way what is the exact period encompassed by your mod?

To begin with it will be the same as ATW...

 

[jaaron08]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

I've been wondering why no one has made a mod from this time period. I'd love to play it. Keep us posted.

 

[Hengest]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

About time someone did this!

Here's some essays on AngloSaxon paganism I've done-
http://www.ealdriht.org/earendel.html
http://www.ealdriht.org/wade.html

 

[Suppeelsker]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

I would play any good mods situated in Scandinavia!

 

[max_minimod]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

I would invite every person who has knowledge in Vikings, to help to define the viking villages/castles for a 840AC RTW/BI Viking Invasion mod.
Sure 840AC is way later than ATW, but maybe some are interested to help.
Here is the viking and other north Europe important villages/castles I have found so far:

Im currently trying to find out the propper name for the main city of petty kingdom of Agder. (might be Spanger Eid? But that don't sounds like a village/castle).
In old MTW Viking Invasion the Vikings of Hordaland use a castle named
'Skinngsal', but I have not found any historial reference where CA has that from.

Click on my sig for thread.

 

[Dansk viking]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

The map i'm making have some of the same settlements as yours: Birka, Köpingsvik, Gudme(Gudme is a settlement on Fyn, not Sjælland. Instead you should have Lejre or Roskilde on Sjælland), Uppåkra, Skiringsal and Avaldsnes

 

[max_minimod]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

Gudme(Gudme is a settlement on Fyn, not Sjælland. Instead you should have Lejre or Roskilde on Sjælland)

Hehe, yes, you are right.
I already changed from Gudme to Lejre because Gudme was before 800 and the RTW/BI Viking Invasion starts 840.
Roskilde is sayed to be founded 998.
Also I found Jelling comes only in use from Gorm den Gamle (Gorm the old), hundred years after mod starts, so I'm thinking now to use Aggersborg or Aalborg.

Do you know some propper castles/cities for the baltic countries?
Thanx for your help!

 

[Dansk viking]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

Yeah, I would go for Lejre too... I also think Jelling is wrong, if I were you, I would go for Lindholm (Høje), and split Jutland into one more region and also have Ribe as a settlement (It was one of the earliest and biggest towns)

Do you know some propper castles/cities for the baltic countries?

Jumne and Grobin would be fitting for your period.

 

[max_minimod]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

I would go for Lindholm (Høje)

Yea, I thought that too, but Lindholm Høje looks more like only a burrial mound/cemetery for me.

, and split Jutland into one more region and also have Ribe as a settlement (It was one of the earliest and biggest towns)

Yes, if you look on map, I have made Ribe the harbor
(I use that often, if a place is only mentioned as a port/trading place, without much military importance: I'm short of countries, cause the mod has full Byzantines and parts of Abbesid empire) Might add one more country to Daner if I get some free elsewhere
But is Ribe really that old? It is mentioned in sources I found only as an unimportant place compared to Hedeby, Dorstad, Köpingswik or even Birka.

Jumne = Jomsburg?
Jomsburg I have in.

I will make Grobin the city for Eistland, thanx for that!
(Hehe I suspect a lot of complaints from Baltic people and Russians, Ukrainians when they find most of their cities have Viking names in mod )

 

[Dansk viking]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

Jumne is the same as Wolin, situated near the semi-legendary Jomsborg. I would use Jumne/Wolin instead of Jomsborg.

Ribe was an important settlement, more important than many of the other Scandinavian ones...

Also Aggersborg was built by Gorms grandson Svend Tveskæg, and Aalborg is much later, maybe it's even the predecessor of Lindholm? And Spangereid seems like a good settlement... maybe some other name though

 

[max_minimod]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggersborg

Dating the structure has proven difficult, since the archaeological site has also been the site of an Iron Age village. The ring castle is believed to have been constructed around 980 during the reign of king Harold Bluetooth and / or Sweyn Forkbeard

Yes, you are right, the ringcastle they have there is from later than Gorm den Gamle, but they write that they have found an older village of longhouses and grubhuts there under the present ringcastle.

The problem I have with Lindholm Høje, I have not found any reference of village signs there yet, no longhouses, no castle, only burial sites.
With Alborg:

The earliest settlements date back to around 700 AD

( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alborg )

Yes on Spanger Eid, the name sux, but I did not find any name of the Agder kings city yet.

 

[Dansk viking]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

I haven't, as I said had a lot of spare time to work on this project,
but I've begun making a new map, which is better and more detailed:
View attachment 7459
I've just had some problems, because I haven't been able to make it work ingame.
The reason is that there's to much water, so I will just have to find a solution.

Other than that, I could really use some instructions or help from a mappper, to make the map work ingame.
Actually I would appreciate if anyone with some experience in modding would help me get this thing running.
If some experienced and interested guys want to create a team,
I might just make this project more serious, and then I'm sure we will get a subforum where we can get the project structured.

I welcome any interested members, who wants to contribute to the project, both with historical knowledge and all the other modding areas.

Dansk Viking

 

[Nicodemus]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

Don't know too much about modding & maps, but I do know that ATW has those weird islands just to achieve the correct land/water ratio. Might be worth asking the ATW team?

 

[Dansk viking]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

Yeah, I've thought about that, but there's not much space to put them. I wouldnt put them in the baltic... West of Denmark would be good enough, but it seems weird to put a great island there...

 

[éléysandre]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

Hi there,

The idea look awesome but why not extending the map a bit south to the Alps ? Including all Germany and a bit of France for a perfect Germanic Total War ?

Isn't it ?

Hope you'll release soon. Good work.

 

[Rædwulf Cyning]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

About time someone did this!

Here's some essays on AngloSaxon paganism I've done-
http://www.ealdriht.org/earendel.html
http://www.ealdriht.org/wade.html

From reading the headings they look to be well written. You seem a man after my own heart. The Old English religion is sadly not as well documented than the Norse but it does seem that we are learning more about it all the time.

Sadly what we do know is rather neglected (especially in English education), but hopefully what with Beowulf films (sadly mostly bad, in my opinion) being made other aspects of Anglo-Saxon culture will be explored more fully outside of small circles of those of us who either believe in the faith or respect it and find some forms of guidance from it.

I shall read more of them when I have time.

 

[Dansk viking]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

The idea look awesome but why not extending the map a bit south to the Alps ? Including all Germany and a bit of France for a perfect Germanic Total War ?

To start with I will focus on Scandinavia, but when the main theme has been finished, I might go further south and/or west in a later version.

Hope you'll release soon. Good work.

It will take quite some time before I release. I have very limited time to work on the mod.

Dansk Viking

 

[Rædwulf Cyning]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

I welcome any interested members, who wants to contribute to the project, both with historical knowledge and all the other modding areas.

Dansk Viking

I would deary like to help out on the historical and theological side of things. I can't say I am very good at the technical side of mod making.

I back-up the other members suggestion (sorry for not naming you! I'm still pretty new) that the map should possibly extend lower as depending on the time span you could also reference the Saxon's wanderings in what is now Germany (they founded if I remember three different states as they migrated further south).

 

[Dansk viking]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

You seem pretty cunning concerning the norse religions, that will help getting that aspect as historically correct as possible, I'm sure Hross can help in this area too.

I haven't heard of the saxons wandering anywhere else than to the british isles, but I trust they did, as pretty much all tribes where on the move in this era. I will look into it, and as nothing is set in stone yet, I might expand the map a bit.

Dansk Viking

 

[Dansk viking]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

yes, you're right, they moved south, but I think it was earlier, around 200.

 

[Steven_v]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

would really love both scandanavia and the british isles in a mod of this time period. with a map like this http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/Britain_500_CE.png.
only with perhaps more scandanvia

 

[Dansk viking]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

Like a northern Europe mod in the migration period... That would be kind of cool, but as I've said before I would really like to finnish the mod focusing on Scandinavia first. ATW already covered the British isles, so I don't think it will be to hard to expand the map later.

 

[Rædwulf Cyning]

Re: Scandinavia in the migration period.

yes, you're right, they moved south, but I think it was earlier, around 200.

They may have, but I was thinking more of the later migrations into Germany (on their way to eventually creating the modern state of Saxony) I think in the 500s they had moved south settling a large area on the banks of the Rhine and the original Duchy was founded in the 600s and was eventually subjugated by Charlemagne some time (I can't quite remember of the top of my head) in the early 800s and a new Duchy of Saxony created.