Preview: Arabia

[fightermedic]

God i love regionals.

hell yea

 

[lokzin]

Actually words like hmw (their) and gwm (all of their) are one of the few words we could possibly have hint of how they were spoken. The w would probably be pronounced as a long /u:/ if I'm not mistaken.

But in Sb' w-gwm the first w clearly equals and (as in Saba and all of their communities), which would be pronounced wa right?

 

[Moros]

Yes the 'w' prefix indicates an 'and'.

 

[CDMan477]

Didn't know that a new preview had been released. There were more then 30 people viewing the EB II forum as I entered, which was good to see in and of itself. A lot of people are anxious for this mod. Thanks, and keep up the great work!

 

[Nelduin]

I have translated the preview for the subforum dedicated to EB II in french TW forums : http://www.mundusbellicus.fr/forum/showthread.php?4679-EB-II-Aper%E7u-La-P%E9ninsule-arabique

I can say that your awesome work is well-received here .

 

[Moros]

I have translated the preview for the subforum dedicated to EB II in french TW forums : http://www.mundusbellicus.fr/forum/showthread.php?4679-EB-II-Aper%E7u-La-P%E9ninsule-arabique

I can say that your awesome work is well-received here .

Bon travail! Dis-les que les chameaux auront seulement un guerrier sur le dos. Mon français n'est plus bien, comme tu vois. Alors, mes excuses pour pas répondre a l'autre forum.

 

[Nelduin]

Pas de problème .

Keep up the good work ! We are all waiting this piece of art .

Spoiler

Edit : Don't worry, your french is pretty good .

 

[il_duce_!]

great work.

 

[Lordinquisitor]

I loved the saba in EB1. I played the hell out of them, despite the fact that their units were somewhat weak. (I mean, their archer spearmen were awesome, but once you start expanding towards the AS or the P`s the lack of armor would hurt.)

Now, this is just awesome. I`m looking forward to them.

 

[Basil 11]

bravo !

 

[Ichon]

This is going to make choosing Saba more difficult with such a nice competitor who must wield diplomacy even more carefully.

 

[Dago Red]

If you like those engines better then it is no loss for you. I for one do not and thus for me it will not be buried under new engines.....

It's not a matter of liking one better than the other anymore. Seven years later, the newest ones are quite simply, superior. ETW did not usher in a time frame that I was particularly fond of, nor were the buggy battles anything to write home about. But we see now just how superior that engine is in the modding community -- mods such as A Proper Empire: Terra Incognita, which offer absurdly detailed economic-oriented gameplay making the most out of a game series (Total War) that keeps baby stepping towards the complexity of Paradox games.

You can have vassals and protectorates! There are trade lanes, and high seas naval warfare. In the latest game engine, we see a total war map come alive in 3 dimensions -- one you can pan the camera around in any-which-way just as in battle mode of old.

And there are now schemes within schemes possible in the campaign play, the intrigues possible are far greater than before. All the silly unreal things can be taken away, and what's left is an game engine that has come a long way, seven years is a geological age in computer gaming years. This engine is a fossil.

But like I said, it's more than personal preference or opinion now. This game engine wasn't even designed for our modern equipment, and performs poorly on it, esp for a modern widescreen monitor.

See the following: Technology is leaving this game behind. Do you know new computers don't even come with VGA ports? I have only a new fangled "display port," 2 DVI ports, and an HDMI port on my newish gaming rig. My newish (2 year old) monitor cannot display the game properly, being that an HD 1080p screen, though fantastic and extremely high resolution, simply stretches the campaign overlay all out of proportion becasuse the UI jut wasn't designed for it. In fact, I had to return the first monitor I bought (to replace a fossilized 17in) because the text on my total war games was stretched to the point of illegibility and settled on this one.

I still play Broken Crescent and love it. And Third Age. I can read the text, but what about in 2 more years? What new thing will we all eventually upgrade to, to replace dead components that does not integrate with a game whose age is reaching a decade?

...that is like seven years or so ago, I can be around for a couple more really. Sure we want it released and as much work done as fast as possible without sacrificing depth or quality. But the latter comes first.

As a friend of mine said when we discussed the absurdly long and ongoing saga that is EBII, "this is scholasticism: scholarship without real-world application."

The real world application being, the release, any release, in any form, of this mod.

I bought M2TW for EB II nearly half a decade after it was released by CA. I had no desire to play vanilla and finally saw the aforementioned mods come into their own in a version which appealed to me... but it was, and always has been EB II that I bought this small plastic disc for. Do you know people don't even buy these small plastic discs anymore -- they just download games straight outta the intertubes!

I have been waiting now, less time than you, and have put very little effort into the community and nothing into the mod team. But I know there are people who have contributed greatly to this community and have nothing for their time and effort. Shouldn't you consider releasing some kind of little playable beta (as was promised long ago in the Gaza campaign) just for them? Do you know that some people have died in the past 7 years?

I have been in equal awe of the work done by this team as I have by it's unwillingness to release anything and apparent lack of care for those who bought this game engine to play this mod. There's a term my friend mentioned: avoidance behavior. Oh, another thing to fix! Something to add, to polish and calibrate, to make it perfect!

You toil over chiseling a perfect work, while those endearing supporters waiting for it, crumble to dust.

 

[bobbin]

Sigh...where to even begin. Firstly it doesn't matter how amazing you think the new engines are, they cannot be used to make mods that have a different setting to that of the game. There is a reason why m2tw has the most active mod forums on the site. So I fail to see why you felt the need to being that up, do you expect us to just drop everything because the game we mod is outdated?

And please cut it with the condescending attitude, you feely admit having minimal input into the community yet you somehow feel entitled to child us for not releasing the mod, and even have the cheek to suggest we are dithering or timewasting, holding up the release. We mean it when we say the mod is not in a playable state, this is a product of far too ambitious goals being set for most of the mods development, we have cut back drastically on these to ensure the mod will be released.

So if you don't have anything better to contribute than hyperbolic rants and thinly veiled insults please keep your opinions to yourself, it will save both our times and allow the team to focus on finishing the mod.

 

[AlphaDelta]

There are more people currently viewing the Kingdoms modding forum alone than there are viewing all of the Shogun 2 AND all of the Napoleon forums put together! If EB II takes another 5 years it'll still be worth waiting for.

Cheers

 

[Dago Red]

There are no insults meant. Just criticisms, which I stated fairly with full admission of no effort put in this mod on my part. I only mean to state an opinion that goes unspoken here.

People just troll or leave, they don't say what needs be said.

If you really have no campaign or beta that could be put out to your community, then I retract relaying my friend's statement about "avoidance behavior." Still though, I have asked periodically how things progress with Gaza, and received the most ponderous and dreamy answers from a certain 5-toed anatomical structure, about thinking on adding some feature or other next, with no regard for a sense of urgency to actually release it -- just to perfect it.

it's my sense that, although there may be some who depart from this in the team, that largely you have a team of perfectionists, and they can't see that: just releasing something their dedicated community can play is a thing of beauty itself.

Like I said, I bought the game (after asking here for a ballpark time frame on the gaza campaign, and once told that it was "coming soon"/months and "at least by the end of the year")... I dropped the coin on m2tw and have been waiting... for years now as replacement parts (1 new monitor and 2 new computers) continue to be less and less compatible with m2tw as a game platform. Now, installing m2tw mods on a windows 7 machine is like jumping through an obstacle course.

If some kind of limited beta/Gaza campaign were actually released you would only have all the more feedback, bug reporting and help from the community. Wouldn't that help further the whole project?

Anyway, carry on.

 

[Visarion]

There are more people currently viewing the Kingdoms modding forum alone than there are viewing all of the Shogun 2 AND all of the Napoleon forums put together! If EB II takes another 5 years it'll still be worth waiting for.

Cheers

 

[napoleonic]

Like I said, I bought the game (after asking here for a ballpark time frame on the gaza campaign, and once told that it was "coming soon"/months and "at least by the end of the year")... I dropped the coin on m2tw and have been waiting... for years now as replacement parts (1 new monitor and 2 new computers) continue to be less and less compatible with m2tw as a game platform. Now, installing m2tw mods on a windows 7 machine is like jumping through an obstacle course.

ridiculous statement, did you buy apple? that's likely why you had to jump through an obstacle course to install m2twk mods

 

[Evelien]

Lovely!

 

[mr.playa]

omg am going to die from waiting

you guys are awesome
great review

keep up the good work

 

[Abdalqaum]

Europa Barbarorum II will feature incense as a resource on the strategy map.

What about qat? An addictive plant from the southern arabian peninsula and east africa.
Well... I guess EB2 is going to be addictive as well.

 

[Casual Tactician]

What about qat? An addictive plant from the southern arabian peninsula and east africa.
Well... I guess EB2 is going to be addictive as well.

Agree!

What about a 'qat-sassin' unit for Saba?

 

[Moros]

What about qat? An addictive plant from the southern arabian peninsula and east africa.
Well... I guess EB2 is going to be addictive as well.

Qat as a resource (of which we can only have a limited number) will probably fall under spices or something similar. We can perhaps represent Qat in different ways (triats,...)

 

[Princess Cadance]

Amazing work as always,team of EB! I earnestly look forward to playing as the Nabataeans. Game-play in Arabia will be 100% better,not that it would be horrible at the start.

 

[Mix-Master]

Qat as a resource (of which we can only have a limited number) will probably fall under spices or something similar. We can perhaps represent Qat in different ways (triats,...)

haha! I recall one Sab'yn family member in EB1 had the "qat chewer" trait which I think made him more sociable. So Qat was always represented.

GOOD JOB ON THE PREVIEW! I actually read it all this time! I wonder if victory conditions for Saba require taking lands of the Nabataeans... (it would actually be pretty cool to unify the Arabs before Islam) In any case, it's going to be so cool to have another faction to trade with and also the INDIAN FACTION ACROSS THE SEA!

Thank you for taking great care of this often misrepresented part of the world.

 

[Xerrop]

An interesting and extensive preview. Needed two days to read all the text.
Since the announcement of EBII I knew for sure that there will be a second faction in this era as it was simply an empty spot. But good to see the confirmation now. And as Mix-Master mentioned above the Indian faction will greatly improve the campaign for Saba as well as Nabatea.

But I have one question also - the map showing the incense route features all towns in Arabia? If yes then I think that the Nabateans will be limited somewhat as there is only Rekem (Petra I guess?) as probably the one and only start territory. A second town/province in the area (aside from Dedan) wouldn´t be such a bad idea I think.

GOOD JOB ON THE PREVIEW! I actually read it all this time! I wonder if victory conditions for Saba require taking lands of the Nabataeans... (it would actually be pretty cool to unify the Arabs before Islam)

I guess there is no way around adding their towns to the victory conditions. Saba can only expand northwards against the Nabateans and westwards across the Red Sea facing Egypt (beside some eastern Arabian provinces).

 

[yuezhi]

at least this time the ptolemies won't send army after army into the arabic desert for the sole purpose of taking down a southern arab city far from home.

 

[Ichon]

Like I said, I bought the game (after asking here for a ballpark time frame on the gaza campaign, and once told that it was "coming soon"/months and "at least by the end of the year")... I dropped the coin on m2tw and have been waiting... for years now as replacement parts (1 new monitor and 2 new computers) continue to be less and less compatible with m2tw as a game platform. Now, installing m2tw mods on a windows 7 machine is like jumping through an obstacle course.

You've made good objective points and criticisms in other forums so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as perhaps just a bit of impatience is setting in but what are you talking about with Win 7 and MTW2 is so outdated?

Not to defend Win 7 necessarily but MTW2 is actually more stable and better looking in Win 7 for me than it ever was in XP. I loaded Win 7 over XP and so was able to observe MTW2 mods on the same install and it was easy and definite improvement. Perhaps you had a poor 1080P monitor because I have two... 22 and 32 and MTW2 looks quite good on both, in fact many little details I never noticed before jumped out.

There are some games I can no longer play on Win 7 (Privateer, Shadow of the Horned Rat, Close Combat, High Command, etc) but those games are from the mid 90s almost 20 years ago now. I can still play Master of Orion, Wing Commander, Heroes of Might and Magic, and even UrQuan so it is going to be a long, long time before MTW2 is too old to play. It actually scales pretty well as larger texture files can be rendered now with better equipment and while it doesn't look as good as brand new releases it certainly looks better than comparable games from 2006.

 

[Dago Red]

You've made good objective points and criticisms in other forums so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as perhaps just a bit of impatience is setting in but what are you talking about with Win 7 and MTW2 is so outdated?

Take one look at the installation instructions, and then all the help and technical issues problems from people on say, Broken Crescent, and you'll see what I mean. You or I may not have had too many problems, or been able to figure it out easily, but others have been thwarted. There are also all the well documented UAC hurdles one must leap over in Vista and 7 which make some installations as complicated as passing a bill in the US House of Representatives.

As for the monitor -- the one I returned was the problem. I returned it for a full refund and found the one I use now which is not a problem, although the game overlay elements (building browser, unit cards, etc are still inordinately stretched out because they were not designed with a hi def widescreen viewing in mind).

My point is that you can easily end up buying a new monitor which is not compatible with the display of a 7-year-old game. When you consider resolution (1080p in my case) with the actual screen real estate in inches you can end up with combinations that do not display the game properly. The game was designed ages ago for a totally different technology. The monitors we have now didn't even exist then. If I had not been vigilant, and TW games so important to me, I would simply have ended up with a monitor that couldn't display them and stopped playing.

It's only going to continue along this path of increasing incompatibility, and outdated designs not working with modern technology. Right now, most issues are easily corrected with a little help and/or vigilance on the part of the user, but the average person is totally lost when it comes to the complexities of installing a mod that takes more effort than simply clicking "install."

 

[krste]

@Dago Red

Most modern widescreen monitors have a setting to change the aspect ratio from always wide to auto. When on auto the monitor adjust to the video source, so when playing older games like Medieval 2, Rome or Warcraft 3 that only support 4:3 resolutions the image will be centered with black areas on the sides like this

and there will be no streaching.

 

[Lуra]

Take one look at the installation instructions, and then all the help and technical issues problems from people on say, Broken Crescent, and you'll see what I mean. You or I may not have had too many problems, or been able to figure it out easily, but others have been thwarted. There are also all the well documented UAC hurdles one must leap over in Vista and 7 which make some installations as complicated as passing a bill in the US House of Representatives.

As for the monitor -- the one I returned was the problem. I returned it for a full refund and found the one I use now which is not a problem, although the game overlay elements (building browser, unit cards, etc are still inordinately stretched out because they were not designed with a hi def widescreen viewing in mind).

My point is that you can easily end up buying a new monitor which is not compatible with the display of a 7-year-old game. When you consider resolution (1080p in my case) with the actual screen real estate in inches you can end up with combinations that do not display the game properly. The game was designed ages ago for a totally different technology. The monitors we have now didn't even exist then. If I had not been vigilant, and TW games so important to me, I would simply have ended up with a monitor that couldn't display them and stopped playing.

It's only going to continue along this path of increasing incompatibility, and outdated designs not working with modern technology. Right now, most issues are easily corrected with a little help and/or vigilance on the part of the user, but the average person is totally lost when it comes to the complexities of installing a mod that takes more effort than simply clicking "install."

Tell me, what is driving you?
No, really, what are you striving for? Do you want the team to just go all "Golly guys, we've been doin' it wrong the whole goggly down time! Haw! Haw! Less just release it without all the historical detail and balance and new campaign systems all researched and done by us to a professional caliber in our free time; let's release it without all that that made EB1 so good. Lets be swayed by the public of our mod. So that they can enjoy a rushed product, a raw cake."

Do you think the team have their heads up their rectums? Do you think they're blind, following some 'hopeless' road to kaput? They have worked on it thus far, they will work on it till the end. Only a fool would not see their passion fr their creation.

This mos will be played, in 2, 3, 4 years time? The people who will really want to enjoy it will find a way to install it, if for some reason the systems of the future make decade-old games unplayable.

I won't, at least.

~Lyra