Magic in Skyrim

[Astaroth]

I've been only playing as a mage so far and I thought I might as well share my thoughts about magic in Skyrim.

I'm level 27 now, my destruction skill is at 84, restoration at 60 and conjuration at like 73. I have access to all but the master-class destruction spells and I can conjure storm atronachs. I haven't leveled any other skills (aside from speechcraft and lockpicking which you essentially level up "automatically") yet. I currently play on the Master difficulty.

My character wears the Archmage robes, combined with Elven gloves and boots. He also wears a circlet for like 50 extra magicka. So far, I have refused to (ab)use enchanting, alchemy and smithing. Casting spells for no mana just seems lame to me...

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My observations: Destruction magic is okay, but only if you either face lots of weaker enemies or somehow have the ability to attack your opponents from a distance. Once higher level enemies get close you are essentially done for with pure destruction, since your spells simply can't kill them fast enough.

That's a huge problem with that school of magic, since your opponents' health increases faster once you level up than your own magicka and spell strength does (destruction spells don't improve upon level-up).

In comparison, conjuration seems quite powerful. The spells are fairly cheap (one storm atronach is generally worth much more than say 3 dual charged fireballs) and the summoned creatures are strong. Additionally, you can hide behind your summons and regen your mana meanwhile. Conjuration also has the quite useful spell "flaming familiar", which essentially allows you to attack opponents who are very far away, even if they are hiding behind something.

I haven't really had much experience with the other schools of magic... restoration is useful of course, but I find the wards fairly pointless. They drain a lot of magicka and usually it's easier to just dodge enemy spells and to use your mana to kill the enemies asap.

As for alteration or illusion, can't tell you much about that. Looking at the various spells they don't seem that useful, but...

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What do you guys think about magic in Skyrim? Good/bad/boring/interesting? Any tips or thoughts?

 

[Jaketh]

My destruction isnt as high as yours but im wearing a full set of deadric enchanted armor (+150% mana regen with +50 to mana) and i can kill most enemies including a giant with two mammoths. The only enemies i have to run for my life are mages with ward spells. Im only playing on Adept though

 

[xcorps]

I think it was dumbed down too much. I get the impression based on nothing more than casual reading of the development and observations of changes to TES over time that the developers wanted to make the game less taxing on the players mental reserves.
I feel like it would be folly to try to play an archetypical dagger/robe mage, but I've only used destruction and conjuration so far as support. I'm going to play a dual wielder next, then try a mage/priest.

 

[Hopit]

all I say is, frost spells are op as when NPC's use them

 

[Astaroth]

I think it was dumbed down too much. I get the impression based on nothing more than casual reading of the development and observations of changes to TES over time that the developers wanted to make the game less taxing on the players mental reserves.
I feel like it would be folly to try to play an archetypical dagger/robe mage, but I've only used destruction and conjuration so far as support. I'm going to play a dual wielder next, then try a mage/priest.

Are you referring to the removal of schools of magic? I don't think that's a big deal at all, the important spells are still all in. And removing spell creation is fine, it was totally OP and not it's not like it gave you a totally new spell animations or anything. A fireball with twice the damage is still simply a fireball, just an OP one.

all I say is, frost spells are op as when NPC's use them

I don't know about that, I don't have a big problem facing mages who spam frost spells at me (playing as a mage myself) since those ice spikes are fairly easy to dodge.

 

[SLN445]

Spell crafting is alright even if it would be OP, aslong as its not capable of being so until late in the game.

 

[xcorps]

Are you referring to the removal of schools of magic? I don't think that's a big deal at all, the important spells are still all in. And removing spell creation is fine, it was totally OP and not it's not like it gave you a totally new spell animations or anything. A fireball with twice the damage is still simply a fireball, just an OP one.

The mechanics of spell creation weren't what was so attractive about it. It was the ability to immerse yourself more completely into the game. Yes, I could make a spell that buffed personality, speechcraft and mercantile to abuse the merchant system, but so what? How does that break down the game into something less playable? It was the personal quest to find more spell effects and combine them into something usefull and fun to play that made the spell creation system so attractive.

Totally OP? Have you read anything about how alchemy, crafting and enchanting are "breaking the endgame" for melee characters?

How do you even consider something OP? I'm playing a stealth archer right now, backed up by casting. He oneshots almost everything in the game. Only dragons, giants, and dungeon bosses can handle more than one stealth arrow, and that's without any buffs or poison at all. How is that NOT overpowered?

 

[Astaroth]

Using other broken features as arguments to add another broken one doesn't really work.

I didn't say that spell creation was terrible and had to be removed, just that I didn't mind its removal. Creating a new massive lightning blast simply isn't that cool when it looks and works the same way as plenty of other spells in the game. At least right now there are several different kinds of destruction spells (e.g. ice spikes, ice whirlwind etc.) that are more unique than fireball or put-enemy-on-fire-upon-touch.

But my main point is that removing spell creation didn't somehow "dumb down" the game. That argument simply doesn't work at all, since literally everyone knew how to create new broken spells. Removing that feature didn't make the game any easier or simpler, it just made the game harder (because you actually have to work with what you have rather than just creating new OP spells).

And as for broken alchemy/enchanting/smithing: I am eagerly waiting for a mod that severely weakens all of those.

 

[Legio]

I love the spell where you can summon an Oblivion character -

Spoiler

Lucien LaChance

- he's excellent.


I liked flame rune as well but it's so weak now.

 

[Hopit]

Are you referring to the removal of schools of magic? I don't think that's a big deal at all, the important spells are still all in. And removing spell creation is fine, it was totally OP and not it's not like it gave you a totally new spell animations or anything. A fireball with twice the damage is still simply a fireball, just an OP one.


I don't know about that, I don't have a big problem facing mages who spam frost spells at me (playing as a mage myself) since those ice spikes are fairly easy to dodge.

mages I face use somekind of frost wall that on adept 1 hits, and on novice 2 hits, and it slows you down if you walk on the spot it passed... I ing hate that. and I wear daedric armor with armor rating of 500..., and when I try to get close they shoot frost at me and run away... then I rage and shout alot

 

[Phier]

This is why I'm playing morrowind right now.

I always play a mage type and Skyrim just doesn't cut it, though the graphics for it are nice. For example about 10 minutes ago I just made a spell I called 'fire slap' for use on my level 1 mage, thats a 50 damage touch spell. Of course I made one mistake and forgot dark elves get fire resistance So I need to redo that one with frost. Of course thats Morrowind though.

But thats the versatility I miss and the REASON for playing a mage.

From what I gather is that while destruction starts to get too weak after level 30, conjuration is OP, especially with the perk that gives you two summons at once. At which point you just become a loot collector and if one gets killed you re-summon while you watch the fight. Being powerful doesn't translate to really that fun though.

 

[Astaroth]

@Hopit: I don't think I have faced that before, but can't you simply avoid the spot that the frost wall has been cast on?

Phier, I think it depends on your playstyle. I can't summon more than one creature at once yet, and despite having a storm atronach, fights can be quite tough at times. Enemies often attack you rather than the summon, so using destruction magic as well is necessary. So yes, conjuration is stronger than destruction imo, but it's by no means incredibly overpowered.

I played Morrowind and Oblivion as well, and while there is no spell creation in Skyrim, the quite diverse spells that are available make up for it. E.g. you are not limited to touch-fire and fireballs and summoned weapons don't just look like regular ones.

 

[Hopit]

@Hopit: I don't think I have faced that before, but can't you simply avoid the spot that the frost wall has been cast on?

Phier, I think it depends on your playstyle. I can't summon more than one creature at once yet, and despite having a storm atronach, fights can be quite tough at times. Enemies often attack you rather than the summon, so using destruction magic as well is necessary. So yes, conjuration is stronger than destruction imo, but it's by no means incredibly overpowered.

I played Morrowind and Oblivion as well, and while there is no spell creation in Skyrim, the quite diverse spells that are available make up for it. E.g. you are not limited to touch-fire and fireballs and summoned weapons don't just look like regular ones.

kinda hard when you in a cave/dungeon, those mages are smart, too smart...

 

[xcorps]

Using other broken features as arguments to add another broken one doesn't really work.

I didn't say that spell creation was terrible and had to be removed, just that I didn't mind its removal. Creating a new massive lightning blast simply isn't that cool when it looks and works the same way as plenty of other spells in the game. At least right now there are several different kinds of destruction spells (e.g. ice spikes, ice whirlwind etc.) that are more unique than fireball or put-enemy-on-fire-upon-touch.

But my main point is that removing spell creation didn't somehow "dumb down" the game. That argument simply doesn't work at all, since literally everyone knew how to create new broken spells. Removing that feature didn't make the game any easier or simpler, it just made the game harder (because you actually have to work with what you have rather than just creating new OP spells).

And as for broken alchemy/enchanting/smithing: I am eagerly waiting for a mod that severely weakens all of those.

But it didn't make the game harder. It just removed a component of the game that makes it less playable as a pure mage.

My reason for bringing up alchemy etc wasn't to make the argument that spell creation shouldn't have been removed, it was to make the point that spell creation didn't break any "balance" by being OP. There is no balance because there is no "OP" line. OP in a single player RPG is subjective and imaginary, especially -especially- when you use a leveled encounter table. Example: Say I use the Frostcrag Spire DLC to avoid the mages guild quest for spell creation. By the time I've gotten the money for the candles and the stats to have a decent mana pool, let's just assume I'm level 10. At level 10 I can purchase a spell from a vendor that takes two applications to kill a standard encounter. Or, I can create an enhanced version of the same spell that does treble damage versus the purchased version. So it only takes one application of that spell. How is that overpowered? It'd be different if there was a certain encounter someplace that necessitated the need for higher level characters because of a hp/dmg differential, but that encounter type doesn't exist in Oblivion. The only difference here is the efficiency of play. The two applications of the lower damage spells actually cost less mana than the single application of the higher damage spells, so it's less efficient. Granted this won't apply to every single encounter because of resistances/weaknesses, but the general point stands. The higher power spells have an internal balance of mana cost. The hardest part about spell creation was finding the most efficient use of mana so that you could move from encounter to encounter without having to wait for mana to regen. Utility spells like stat buffs have an even higher cost than destruction spells. Combining spell effects adds another layer of internal balance, because the effect with the highest cost determined what school of magic was required as the base, enforcing a more diverse build.

 

[Thangaror]

Are you referring to the removal of schools of magic? I don't think that's a big deal at all, the important spells are still all in. And removing spell creation is fine, it was totally OP and not it's not like it gave you a totally new spell animations or anything. A fireball with twice the damage is still simply a fireball, just an OP one.

I didn't really like Oblivion and thus didn't play it extensively, so I cannot say how spell creation was in this game.


But in Morrowind it was certainly not OP. Self-made spells usually consumed a lot! of magicka and had a low chance of success.

The problem is, the standard 10 second lasting sanctuary spell is really no worth. It doesn't help at all in comat, pre-casting spells is useless and during the fight it's better to spam destruction spells.

Also you cannot block and cast, like in Oblivion or Skyrim. Thus actually you'd need long-lasting spells or a combination of a shield spell + sanctuary/blind/chamaeleon + heal + damage/absorb attribute to last against strong enemies in melee.
But both things don't work.

I've edited the races and the birthsigns, so my lvl 50 mage has tons of magicka (like 400), but still my self-made like-to-have spells would deplete a third of it and have a really low chance of success (with magic skills at around 90). Therefore I didn't create the like-to-have spells.

Funny is, too, that high-level spells like "Fifth Barrier" consume too magicka and even alteration at lvl 85 and willpower 100 have only 60% chance of success.

And by the way, my "uberest" spell actually is "Divine Fire", "Divine Frost" respectively, and it's an in-game spell, killing Ascended Sleepers and such within seconds.

Compared with my melee characters, my mage is so increadibly weak.

 

[Shaio]

^ never understood why peeps thought custom spells were overpowerd or broken, i mean you couldn't make them overpowerd unless you had ridiculous amounts of mana, most of the time a mage was still inferior to a melee character for the most part.

If anything was overpwoerd in oblivion it was shields, any fight in the game could be won with the tactic "block, hit 3 times, repeat".

Mages are meant to be glass cannons, incredibly fragile, with damage potential thats totally ridiculous.
Frankly so far my mage does medicore damage, i could really use customized spells, even if pretty limited..
I mean say the first fire spell, if i could edit it id double the damage and mana cost, so i could kills things quickly.

I totally miss morrowwind, where i could make that godlike spell that uses every last vestige of my mana and only has 20% chance to work, but will clear a room perfectly.


I want a summon horse spell, sicne my horse is far braver then me and will suacidially attack things, or run off to attack things I cant see, I wish I could either summon the bastards, or be able to wistle to call my horse or something.. the a pain in the ass going and finding it.

 

[Inhuman One]

I think they really need to add at least one new damage type. Just frost, shock and fire is rather plain and boring compared to the offerings of many other games.

Dark energy, poison gas, magical blasts, ghostly attacks.. they should at least try something new.

 

[Winter]

I wouldn't overlook illusion; fury and calm are cheap spells with great crowd control abilities, especially in earlygame.

 

[Phier]

Phier, I think it depends on your playstyle. I can't summon more than one creature at once yet, and despite having a storm atronach, fights can be quite tough at times. Enemies often attack you rather than the summon, so using destruction magic as well is necessary. So yes, conjuration is stronger than destruction imo, but it's by no means incredibly overpowered.

I played Morrowind and Oblivion as well, and while there is no spell creation in Skyrim, the quite diverse spells that are available make up for it. E.g. you are not limited to touch-fire and fireballs and summoned weapons don't just look like regular ones.

All my knowledge is really second hand, Skyrim just sort of screams 'warrior' play and thats what I did. I've only putzed around with the magic side. From what I gather once you get 2 summons, the aggro is a lot less of an issue.