How Do Vassals Work?

[thricelost]

Hi there.

Can anyone explain, based upon direct experience or knowledge, how vassals work? I've read about them online and seen many different opinions. Some say a vassal gives half their income to their master. Some say a tiny portion, some say over 15,000 florins per turn, some say all.

Thanks.

 

[xj900uk]

And how do you set up a possible vassalship in the first place? Do you go through your diplomats or what?

 

[Summitz]

Ok, from vassals you get these things
1.Alliance
2.Trade Rights
3.Military Access
4.A portion of their income left after spending on themselves.(After building and recruiting, the amount left if given as tribute).

To set up the vassals, you have to basically beat the crap out of them both financially and militarily. The most certain way for a nation to accept vassal is.
1.Your finanacial position MUST be MUCH SUPERIOR to theirs
2.Your military position MUST be MUCH SUPERIOR to theirs.
3.All the territories around them MUST belong to you or your allies.
4.Their ports MUST be blockaded.
5.They shouldnt have any or VERY WEAK allies.

No. 5 is the most likely option the AI will accept it.

 

[infernocanuck]

Also, the higher your global reputation, and your reputation with the that particular faction (that is about the be "vassaled") the better chance they will accept. If you've conquered thier capital, or other lands, offering them back in return for vassalhood will also help significantly.

 

[oou420]

Ok, from vassals you get these things
1.Alliance
2.Trade Rights
3.Military Access
4.A portion of their income left after spending on themselves.(After building and recruiting, the amount left if given as tribute).

To set up the vassals, you have to basically beat the crap out of them both financially and militarily. The most certain way for a nation to accept vassal is.
1.Your finanacial position MUST be MUCH SUPERIOR to theirs
2.Your military position MUST be MUCH SUPERIOR to theirs.
3.All the territories around them MUST belong to you or your allies.
4.Their ports MUST be blockaded.
5.They shouldnt have any or VERY WEAK allies.

No. 5 is the most likely option the AI will accept it.

that pretty much said it all, except your financial position doesn't have to be better. i got scotland as a vassal in the kingdoms brittannia campaign while being dirt poor.
also i'm pretty sure it's impossible to get a vassal on VH campaign difficulty, maybe someone can proove me wrong

 

[roy34543]

There is a way to measure the EXACT amount of money they give you
Anything after their turn over 15000 gold is given to you. So that means you can offer them 3000000 tribute over a googleplex turns if you want, The vast majority of the money will be given back to you.
Also , for best results in vassaling them, Have a high world reputation, a very good diplomat, and a lot of armies. having good reputation with them doesnt hurt either. oh and you MUST be at war just so you know.

 

[Sokar Rostau]

I managed to gain a Vassal only once and lost it next turn when one of their Allies blockaded one of my ports and they tore up our Alliance, so keep that in mind as well.

 

[Renco]

In the interest of not starting yet another thread about vassals, i'll just revive an old one to share my lore.

While I haven't been on these forums for ages, when I was on there was a lot of confusion about how to get vassals. Whether that's changed or not I don't know. But I think I finally have the best way to do it. It's not hard at all.

Playing H/H as England in vanilla 1.2 I'd wiped out scotland, allied with the french and invaded Denmark. First I took the rebel settlement, then moved towards Stolkholm. I had a diplomat outside Arthus and I demanded the stockholm or I would attack and i'd give them 5000. They agreed.

Next order of business was to take Arthus. They just had a king inside and it fells easily to my army. I moved my whole army down to just outside the border with there next castle, which eludes me right now and waited. Sure enough, their defending stack came and attacked. Won't go into details, but it was a heroic victory. I then got ceasefire orders, so I sent my diplomat down to talk for a ceasefire.

Our rep was terrible, as we hadn't been at war for long. I had released prisoners earlier and had a reliable rep. So I offered vassalage, and no matter what I did, it was very demanding. So I gave them 5000, 3 times, until our rep was the level above so so. Vassalage became balanced and after offering 1000, it became generous. My diplomat was a 2 scroll guy.

What we can gather from the above story
1. The chief element behind getting vassals is how much they like you.
2. The longer and more brutaly you fight them, the lower your rep goes and the more expensive it will be in the future.
3. You don't need to cripple the nation to get them to accept, Denmark still had 3 provinces and they were in the top 5 nations in the world, 2nd in military power.

Hope this helps anyone who needs it.

 

[thricelost]

With my style of play, I guess I'm very unlikely to ever be able to convince someone to be my vassal. As Egypt, in 1st place, owning all lands around a province, and with my army on their doorstep, I wasn't able to convince Turkey, the Byzantine Empire, or Russia, to be my vassals. I had to wipe them all out. I guess it had something to do with the fact that I had "abyssmal" relations with every faction except for my two allies, and my reputation was "despicable." (Although I didn't know about the blockade requirement.)

Oh well. Thanks for the tips, everyone. One more question -- if a faction asks me to become its vassal, and I negiotiate a ton of money to agree, is there any negative consequence of this? I mean, if they only get my money over 15,000 every turn, but I never have more than 15,000 cash on hand, couldn't I just juse it to get a ton of money, then break the vassalage when I want?

Also, what exactly is meant by "any cash over 15,000 per turn?" If I make 100,000 but I spend 95,000 and end up with 5,000 cash on hand, and I was a vassal, would I keep my 5,000? or would they take 85,000 and I'd be left with a huge debt?

Thanks again.

 

[Viking Prince]

also i'm pretty sure it's impossible to get a vassal on VH campaign difficulty, maybe someone can proove me wrong

Vassals are possible at any difficulty. Early in a Spanish campaign (vh vh) Moors became Spain's vassal after losing the Iberian provinces. They remained a vassal for 10 more turns while I consolidated Iberia (eliminated Portugal and converted all but Paplona to cities). Then they disappeared at the start of the North African conquest (crusade on Marakesh).

 

[fritsje5]

So I guess the only thing you gain from it is the money you needed to give them, in order to gain vassalship, back, with the possibility they will betray you. So I think if you already have a much more superior economy and military force, why not take over their cities and gain the income of their regions. Also I think that after beating the crap out of them, Their economy would mean nothing anymore so I don't think the amount of money you get from them would be worth the effort.

Can someone plz tell me more about this?

 

[Viking Prince]

So I guess the only thing you gain from it is the money you needed to give them, in order to gain vassalship, back, with the possibility they will betray you. So I think if you already have a much more superior economy and military force, why not take over their cities and gain the income of their regions. Also I think that after beating the crap out of them, Their economy would mean nothing anymore so I don't think the amount of money you get from them would be worth the effort.

Can someone plz tell me more about this?

Referring to my previous post: the Moors asked for a ceasefire. Spain counteroffered that they become Spain's vassal. Spain did not pay a florin. It was expediant since Portugal and France are a greater concern in the early game once the Moors are removed from Iberia and all of the rebel provinces have been taken. Spain only waited until it was convenient to take them out. Spain would have been just as happy with a ceasefire, but they were willing to become a vassal.

Once they became a vassal, their diplomats went about allying with Spain's allies and declaring war on Spain's enemies. No real help however. It was all show. The florins were probably less than conquest (even though I tend to occupy and not sack), but the timing was off.

I am not really impressed with the vassalship experience in the game, but it is a colorful addition. Historically, Granada remained a vassal of Castile through most of the period after the fall of Cordoba. Tribute in perpetuity, I believe. Seville received a greater value and no administrative worries. This will never happen in M2TW.

 

[Renco]

Does anyone remember playing RTW? If you played long enough, you reached the point in the game where you could finish the campaign with a single diplomat. You would bribe absoulutey everyone in the entire game and never come close to going broke. But first you needed to set your self up in such a way as to get the 500,000+ gold needed.

Medieval can be won following the same priniciple. Once you get a reliable to very reliable rep, everyone starts liking you. Your relations with everyone just starts going up. I'm sure i'm not the first to notice. You'll usually have very good with everyone if you work on it. At that point, the world is your vassal! Blockade a port of someone to start a war, then offer vassalhood. With a reliable rep and the faction in question loving you, you gain all their land in a single turn.

Make somone big your vassal, then you start making serious money. If you want, you can buy all their land. The going rate seems to be about 5000 for a city if they like you. You can easily win games like this! It's a new playing experience, conquer the world without leaving the Iberian penisula or the Brittish Isles or anything.

 

[roy34543]

I always want to vassalize those tiny nations with like 60,000 or so gold in their treasury. Pays off.

 

[Anglo-Pole]

Most factions usually hate me bacause I sack their settlements and execute prisoners I capture Oh well.

 

[SPARTAN VI]

that pretty much said it all, except your financial position doesn't have to be better. i got scotland as a vassal in the kingdoms brittannia campaign while being dirt poor.
also i'm pretty sure it's impossible to get a vassal on VH campaign difficulty, maybe someone can proove me wrong

Playing on VH/VH and managed to vassalize both Scotland and Milan. Had Milan completely surrounded by my English empire on the West and HRE on the East, gave them back Milan and a couple English provinces to get them to accept. Eventually bought back everything I gave them and left them with one province. The following turn, they returned all the income they made from our trade.

Scotland, I had them down to their last two settlements, gave them Stockholm and 10K florin, they accepted. I had surrounded them on the North and West, then my Byzantine allies on the East. Not so easy to con them out of the territory I gave them. Instead, they lost it to a revolt and I moved in like a vulture.

 

[Sorkenlol]

Damn, you give them a bit of your income? How do I make the Vassalship or whatever it is called disappear? I was offered to be a vassal to the French king in exchange for alliance as they were killing me, I accepted, but now they've betrayed the alliance and we're now At War, does that mean our vassalship is gone?

 

[SPARTAN VI]

Damn, you give them a bit of your income? How do I make the Vassalship or whatever it is called disappear? I was offered to be a vassal to the French king in exchange for alliance as they were killing me, I accepted, but now they've betrayed the alliance and we're now At War, does that mean our vassalship is gone?

You generally do not want be a vassal, rather make others YOUR vassals. I don't know how the AI treats their vassals, but if it's just like allies, then you're better off being an enemy rather than being lured into a false sense of security.

So-and-so allied with me eh? Well, I guess I can just disarm that front and reinforce another. End turn.

...next turn.

Event: Alliance in tatters.

Make others your vassals, pay them loads of cash to get what you want only to have them return the coin the following turn.

 

[Yojimbo]

how vassals work?

Easy. They don't.

 

[Ivo6ata]

Ok, from vassals you get these things
1.Alliance
2.Trade Rights
3.Military Access
4.A portion of their income left after spending on themselves.(After building and recruiting, the amount left if given as tribute).

To set up the vassals, you have to basically beat the crap out of them both financially and militarily. The most certain way for a nation to accept vassal is.
1.Your finanacial position MUST be MUCH SUPERIOR to theirs
2.Your military position MUST be MUCH SUPERIOR to theirs.
3.All the territories around them MUST belong to you or your allies.
4.Their ports MUST be blockaded.
5.They shouldnt have any or VERY WEAK allies.

No. 5 is the most likely option the AI will accept it.

woaw, i didnt know the reasons to make someone vassal of yours, thanks anyway

 

[Rorarii]

Pity you don't get control of their military units and recruitment ..as well as controlling their cities .. is that possible??, ie by modding or is it hardcoded?

Yes, i know i can just attack and takeover their settlements but that would mean their populations would become of my culture, faction etc etc .. which i may not want.

R

 

[jsktrogdor]

Seems like vassals are just loose ends from reading some of these posts, one more thing that can go wrong and try to stab you when your not looking.

 

[SPARTAN VI]

It works, but there are very little benefits. In my english campaign, I've managed to make Milan, Scotland, and Venice my vassals. It seems the moment this happens, they become instantly passive. They wander the little territory I gave them with huge stacks, but don't do a damned thing. I pay them a ton to go attack a neighbor, and they do nothing. All it really does it save me the time of taking all their territories so I can concentrate on a greater enemy.

I've positioned their territories to act as a buffer to my own empire. So an invasion force would have to deal with my vassals before they get to me. One big disadvantage is, vassals don't share vision, so I don't see an invasion force until it's on my vassal's turf.

It's still fun having a bunch of them now. Every once in a while I'd get into huge battle with HRE and Milan as reinforcements. Really cool seeing the diverse colors, banners, and units fielded in one battle.

And no, I've had vassals for at least 20-30 turns now and they seem to be strongly compelled NOT to turn on their protectors. Even Milan.

 

[12345abcd3]

Does anyone remember playing RTW? If you played long enough, you reached the point in the game where you could finish the campaign with a single diplomat. You would bribe absoulutey everyone in the entire game and never come close to going broke. But first you needed to set your self up in such a way as to get the 500,000+ gold needed.

Medieval can be won following the same priniciple. Once you get a reliable to very reliable rep, everyone starts liking you. Your relations with everyone just starts going up. I'm sure i'm not the first to notice. You'll usually have very good with everyone if you work on it. At that point, the world is your vassal! Blockade a port of someone to start a war, then offer vassalhood. With a reliable rep and the faction in question loving you, you gain all their land in a single turn.

Make somone big your vassal, then you start making serious money. If you want, you can buy all their land. The going rate seems to be about 5000 for a city if they like you. You can easily win games like this! It's a new playing experience, conquer the world without leaving the Iberian penisula or the Brittish Isles or anything.

Do territories belonging to your vassals count as yours? So if you need 50 provinces your vassal's ones will count towards othis aswell?

 

[jsktrogdor]

Ive thought about it and I figure Ireland would probley be the only nation I would try to vassal. They're the perfect vassal, in SS have a huge amount of excess cash, they never have allies, they never have enemies once scotland and england have been eliminated. And you never have to worry about them crossing the border, I think I'll give it a shot in my french campaign.


UPDATE: GAH! Irish bastards! I organized the perfect scenario to force them into vasseldom BUT THE PLAN WAS TO BRILLIANT! The Irish king died alone trapped in the siege of the capitol and his son killed himself in the very same sim'd battle as a reinforcment...twice (I reloaded hoping for different results). For some reason the only living Irish nobleman prefers to be a rebel than king sooooo I accidently elimated the irish in one turn....damn, that sucks. They had a 50,000 florin budget... /sigh