English Pikes?

[Jackster]

dont English eventually start using pikes? with their signature Morion helmet? By about 17th century i believe.
also Bill weapon eventually developed more complex in 16th century than the simple weapon we see in this game.
I believe they can also be use in spearwall, since the late Bill type weapon feature a spear head like the halberd.

 

[Frederick]

In the picture, pikemen were used in the War of the Roses. I don't understand why CA dont include them. CA obviously want to maintain game balance.

For billmen, i also disappointed with CA decision not to add in spearwall. Maybe for game balance also. Billmen should act like voulger

 

[tommo_312]

towards the english civil was as well, im not sure if this period is included, pikes were used to guard the slow reloading musketeers (with matchlocks) from cavalry which would have resembled HRE reiters with pistols/carbines and swords.

the billmen in game seem to have a very poorly made billhook. the hook which made it so prominent (billhook) is minature and would not have dragged a mouse let alone a fully armoured knight and horse to its doom. you are right the billhook did mutate into a pike with a halberd look to it because as i have metioned above they were used against cavalry and many characteristics were maintained in anti-cavalry warfare.

hope this helps

tommo

 

[largedarryl]

It does seem very strange that the billmen don't have the spearwall function.

I don't know a lot about medieval warfare, but I thought it looked like the janissary heavy infantry should also have a spearwall function. I think the first time I faced them I thought charging them with my cavalry would be suicide. So I would think the the JHI should also get spearwall, but once again this would severly throw off game balance.

 

[Lubeck]

dont English eventually start using pikes? with their signature Morion helmet? By about 17th century i believe.
also Bill weapon eventually developed more complex in 16th century than the simple weapon we see in this game.
I believe they can also be use in spearwall, since the late Bill type weapon feature a spear head like the halberd.

Both either past the end-date or right on the end-date.

If you want spearwall just edit EDU.

 

[Hex Khan]

Personally I am a Pike player hence its one of the reasons why scotland is is my favourite faction, though i did noticed england was saddly lacking, well hell their without. Though'd I'd give english players some advice mod in english ownership of the flemish merc units and make them recruitable remedies this little problem nicely.

Though I have tried to mod in the phalanx ability for the the billmen, and it didnt work saddly, it did but when i removed the ability in game my game decided to encur an unknown error and shut down.

 

[GODzilla]

I just searched for some pictures of billhooks and found the folliwing:

http://www.afwarehouse.co.uk/acatalog/AF257.jpg

http://www.afwarehouse.co.uk/acatalog/AF258+AF184.jpg

It looks exactly like the one ingame. The hook is also very small. It's definitely a lot smaller than a halberd or the weapon of a vaulgier (don't know what the weapon's english name is ^^).

/edit: I just found this at wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_(weapon)

It seems there is a clear difference between the weapon "bill" and "billhook". The soldiers ingame are using the billhook and not the bill, but then maybe their name is incorrect!

 

[Lusted]

It seems there is a clear difference between the weapon "bill" and "billhook". The soldiers ingame are using the billhook and not the bill, but then maybe their name is incorrect!

Nope they were billmen, a very common levy and part of most medieval english armies.

 

[GODzilla]

Nope they were billmen, a very common levy and part of most medieval english armies.

Still it seems to be a mistake by CA, either intentional (for balancing reasons) or accicentically. They should've given the unit the "bill", a weapon similar to the halberd. But instead they gave them an earlier older version of this weapon, the "billhook". :hmmm: Or what do you think?

 

[Hex Khan]

no your wrong Godzilla, the bill hook was always a simple farming tool throughout the medieval age, and since levies were expected to bring their own war kit they brough their tools hence the bill in game is correct since the halberd model was a later period design from the medieval farming tool much like the flail and falchion which were all orginally domestic tools specialised as weapons of war.

 

[Lusted]

Still it seems to be a mistake by CA, either intentional (for balancing reasons) or accicentically. They should've given the unit the "bill", a weapon similar to the halberd. But instead they gave them an earlier older version of this weapon, the "billhook". Or what do you think?

There was no one thing that could be called a 'bill'. They were fitted with a variety of heads, one fo them being the one shown ingame, others had more prominent billhooks, others had bigger blades for example. So the bill weapon portrayed ingame is accurate.

 

[GODzilla]

no your wrong Godzilla, the bill hook was always a simple farming tool throughout the medieval age, and since levies were expected to bring their own war kit they brough their tools hence the bill in game is correct since the halberd model was a later period design from the medieval farming tool much like the flail and falchion which were all orginally domestic tools specialised as weapons of war.

Well, I judged reading the wikipedia text about it that says:

The Bill was a polearm mainly used by the English. The Bill's efficiency as a close combat weapon meant it was commonly used by 15th and 16th century English infantrymen. Descended from agricultural billhooks and the pollaxe, the bill was a chopping blade with several spiking projections mounted on a staff of six or seven feet.

The complete article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_(weapon)

So this article clearly differs between the "bill", being a halberd-like weapon and it's "ancestor", the farming tool called billhook.

The pictures I found show billhooks:

http://www.afwarehouse.co.uk/acatalog/AF257.jpg

http://www.afwarehouse.co.uk/acatalog/AF258+AF184.jpg

They look like the weapon ingame.

So this lead me to my conclusion in my post before this one. Now please show your evidence, maybe we'll find a consense eventually.

 

[Georgy Zhukov]

Maybe someone out there would like to create a mod adding a pike or halberd unit to england, so we can stop cav, im too lazy and technologicaly enept to do it ,myself

 

[Jackster]

Dont they look like this? Thats a Bill weapon recover from a mid 16th Century St Johns Bahamas wreck. without a shaft ofcourse. (Battle of Pavia took place in 16th century, so we are still in game time.)
In the game they look quite different.
While the weapon of militia level troops might be made from farming equipments, i would have expect the castle unit to have some better weapons.
I dont really see any hook on the bill in the game, looks much like a glaive style weapon to me, most of time they are use in swinging action instead of stabbing. (see the actual Bill has a sharp tip on the top, use to penetrate armor.)