Does it make sense to get trade agreements with a far away faction?

[Neptune7]

I don't think it does make sense. I think I have to have a road connection or a sea port lane connection to my trading partners settlements to get any boost in trade income. I always send a diplomat out and get a trade agreement with everyone in the beginning of the game, but I may stop doing that because it doesn't make any sense. What have people found out about this?...

 

[Spartan90]

No use. Only get trade rights with your neighbours.

 

[RabidSheepLegion]

afaik it does increase relations a bit, especially if they are interested in it

 

[Spartan90]

afaik it does increase relations a bit, especially if they are interested in it

Can someone confirm this? I heard it does the opposite..

 

[Ishan]

There is no use of making it as it doesn't yields any profit. Do it when u share borders with that particular faction.
And eventually it drops the relations as well if do so.

 

[RabidSheepLegion]

Well afaik I would be happy with Venice (Trading superstar ) if they agreed to trade with me

 

[Ishan]

And i forgot to mention one more thing you can accept trade agreements from a faction which even though is far away Like
Sicilians and moors. Coz several ports might be linked together which will wield more profit after trade rights.(Tunis---Palermo for eg.)

 

[Ichon]

First time I heard trade rights harm relations. What a weird effect if that is true. I thought it gave a very, very small bonus to relations...

As for benefits of trade rights- there are 3 I can think of that still make a difference even without direct land or sea trade route connection.

1. Upfront cash early in the game when it matters most. Depending on factions you can often get anywhere from 100-3,000 for giving trade rights away on VH. Maybe more on easier levels for each faction an agreement is made with. It's rare to get the high amount but I've seen if a few times. Usually its somewhere between 500 and 1,500.

2. Merchants earn slightly more in faraway nations you have trade rights with. Its a small bonus, mebe 10% so many times doesn't matter much but when a good skill merchant is sitting on some silk it might add another 150 or more.

3. Council and Merchant Guild missions. If you simply make trade agreements based on the missions you can usually earn quite easy rewards. I'll usually make trade agreement early as possible with 1 or 2 largest neighbors then wait for missions for the rest.

 

[Losthief]

u get bonus for the merchant guilds from the trade rights i think...thats about it...also the resource mining.

 

[sbroadbent]

First time I heard trade rights harm relations. What a weird effect if that is true. I thought it gave a very, very small bonus to relations...

I've heard that if you have trade rights with a faction (you're agreeing to trade with them) and you don't have any open trade routes, the other faction doesn't like it. I haven't checked into it, and don't know whether it has any basis.

2. Merchants earn slightly more in faraway nations you have trade rights with. Its a small bonus, mebe 10% so many times doesn't matter much but when a good skill merchant is sitting on some silk it might add another 150 or more.

I'm sure merchants gain a lot more than that.

In my Papal States game (capital Rome), I had a 4 Finance merchant get 361 florins a turn on Silk in Marmara (Constantinople). A turn later, Knowledge of Customs bumped him up to 5 Finance and 421 florins a turn. Two turns later, my merchant was up to 6 Finance (no change to traits or retinue) and bringing in 1284 florins a turn. Trade Rights were gained somewhere between when he was 5 and 6 Finance. Without trade rights, I'd suspect my 6 Finance merchant would have brought in almost 500 florins or so.

This can be confirmed on page 5 of my AAR All Roads Lead to Rome (post 81, 88 and 91 respectively). On post 100 my merchant goes up to 7 Finance bringing in 1445. I have a second 6 finance merchant bringing in another 1284 florins.

Although I haven't tested it, I'd expect getting trade rights with a faction to at least double what your merchants can make on the resource.

 

[Spartan90]

2. Merchants earn slightly more in faraway nations you have trade rights with. Its a small bonus, mebe 10% so many times doesn't matter much but when a good skill merchant is sitting on some silk it might add another 150 or more

Don't think this one's right, merchant trade has nothing to do with normal trading. What you experienced must just be coincidence.

u get bonus for the merchant guilds from the trade rights i think...thats about it

You only get a bonus if the Merchant Guild specifically asks. However (don't quote me on this) you get a bonus TOWARDS getting a Merchant Guild (Check the Guild Guide, but I'm pretty sure acquiring Trade Rights gives you a few guild points).

 

[Ishan]

Trade rights is directly linked to trade income as it increases it considerably after attaining it.

 

[Spartan90]

Trade rights is directly linked to trade income as it increases it considerably after attaining it.

Yes, but the OP is asking if trade rights from countries without borders will be beneficial.

 

[Ishan]

Yes, but the OP is asking if trade rights from countries without borders will be beneficial.

And i answered that already that it is of no use. [DEL]in fact causes the relations to drop if u don't comply after acquiring it.[/DEL]
Trade rights is dependent upon surrounding settlements not faction or far away.
[DEL]Attaining trade rights with a far faction is only useful when u are willing to send a merchant all the way over there.
Like for eg sending a Russian merchant all the way to Timbuktu which is owned by the moors. And if u send him without trade rights then again it will cause drop in relations to that faction, so in such a case do it otherwise don't bother.[/DEL]

 

[Spartan90]

Trade rights is dependent upon surrounding settlements not faction or far away.

I agree here.

Attaining trade rights with a far faction is only useful when u are willing to send a merchant all the way over there.
Like for eg sending a Russian merchant all the way to Timbuktu which is owned by the moors. And if u send him without trade rights then again it will cause drop in relations to that faction, so in such a case do it otherwise don't bother.

This is where I disagree though. Your Merchant trade has absolutely nothing to do with trade rights, trade income, or trade routes. Using a merchant on lands that aren't yours has no negative effect whatsoever, and once again, the income that your Merchant earns has nothing to do with the trade rights (or lack of trade rights) that you have with the faction on which the resource that your Merchant is sitting on is located.

 

[Ishan]

-Delete-

 

[philipjd]

If I intend to make war, or uspect that that country will attack me, then I do not make trade agreements with them - as when war breaks out, the negative effect on reputation for breaking it can be quite large.

 

[Ishan]

If I intend to make war, or uspect that that country will attack me, then I do not make trade agreements with them - as when war breaks out, the negative effect on reputation for breaking it can be quite large.

I think declaring war through a diplomat first before actually going to war helps a bit in saving ur reputation but i haven't tested it.

 

[Sassori]

I am a bit confused....lol. What happens when the Merchant Guild asks you to obtain trade rights with, let's say, the Novgorodians and you are France or Genoa? is ti worth to send a diplomat there and do you obtain any real benefits from it?

 

[Aranu]

you get the guild's approvement, which is good if you want their guilds in your settlements.
but for trade not really.

 

[newt]

And i answered that already that it is of no use in fact causes the relations to drop if u don't comply after acquiring it.
Trade rights is dependent upon surrounding settlements not faction or far away.

This is not true.

 

[Gorrrrrn]

obtaining trade rights might increase your diplomat's skill level, which could be useful.
having trade rights may not make immediate sense but there may come a time in the game when having could be beneficial and you haven't got a diplomat handy.
if a faction requests trade rights and you grant it makes sense to see that it improves your relative standing with them -
but (esp on VH campaign difficulty) I've concluded a trade agreement one turn and been attacked by the same faction the next.
(I suspect the CAI is trying to use a trade agreement request as a threat of some sort?)

 

[Ishan]

This is not true.

Yes u are right i just verified this myself as i was mislead by reading some of the by some members. I apologize and +rep for actually encouraging me to look into the matter myself bro.
Corrected previous posts

Ok the conclusion of my findings:-

• Trade rights is directly associated with the faction standing and it improves relations with the target faction slightly and has no -ve effect at all afterwards.
  
• By trade rights trade income is increased considerably from the surrounding AI settlements that is a direct connection of a player's settlement via roads or ports.
  
• Merchant can go on freely from one part of the map to other and doesn't affects or bothers the AI though through trade agreements it increases it's income that he wields from a particular resource situated in a AI region. No need to say that higher the skill more income he makes.
  
• With trade agreements he is less susceptible to acquisition from a AI merchant belonging to the relevant AI faction.
  
• Also raising the distance the merchant is from the capital raises the amount he can earn.

 

[newt]

Yes u are right i just verified this myself as i was mislead by reading some of the by some members. I apologize and +rep for actually encouraging me to look into the matter myself bro.

Yeah, sorry for the short answer, I was tired

 

[Ishan]

Yeah, sorry for the short answer, I was tired

Nah no problem bro i owe you one.

 

[Smokey Bacon]

What about in this situation, I am HRE, with no ports, i agree a trade agreement and alliance with Genoa but Venice own all the regions providing a direct land route. Can my trade pass through venice's land when we are either neutral, allied, have trade rights or a combination of those? Or can trade only pass through when you share a border/sea trade route with your trade partner?

 

[cezarip]

What about in this situation, I am HRE, with no ports, i agree a trade agreement and alliance with Genoa but Venice own all the regions providing a direct land route. Can my trade pass through venice's land when we are either neutral, allied, have trade rights or a combination of those? Or can trade only pass through when you share a border/sea trade route with your trade partner?

As far as I know, no! Your settlement trades directly only with the ones in the bordering provinces as long as they are connected by a road. The trading partners can be seen in the trade panel of each city. Let's take Edinburg as example. It will trade (on land) only with Aberdeen in the north and York in south. It won't trade with London or Inverness on land (although it may do so on water if the route brings more as the other alternatives)

The settlements owning a port are the only ones able to trade with another one (also having a port) situated further away.

 

[Callawyn]

This is where I disagree though. Your Merchant trade has absolutely nothing to do with trade rights, trade income, or trade routes. Using a merchant on lands that aren't yours has no negative effect whatsoever, and once again, the income that your Merchant earns has nothing to do with the trade rights (or lack of trade rights) that you have with the faction on which the resource that your Merchant is sitting on is located.

Depends on mod/version of the game your'e playing. Nearly all give a boost to merchant trade income if you have a trade agreement. Very easy to test this. Just before your diplo offers a trade agreement with a faction, select one of your merchants and hover your mouse over some resources in that factions territory. Note what income it says you'll get off the resources. Now, make the trade agreement, then select the merchant again and see what income it says when you mouse over those same resources.

Might need to end turn to see the change, so check again next turn.

I haven't tested this in 6.3, but previous versions income from merchants goes up if you have a trade agreement with the faction that owns the province.

 

[Babri]

Sign the trade rights with only your neighbours & the ones with whom you can trade through your ports. Don't sign it with faraway factions otherwise a time will come when those nations will start hating you & send a fleet to blockade your ports. In my recent campaign as France, Portugal signed trade rights with me & then unfortunately lost control of Pampola. After few turns their relations with me deteriorated & eventually they blockaded my port.

 

[newt]

Sign the trade rights with only your neighbours & the ones with whom you can trade through your ports. Don't sign it with faraway factions otherwise a time will come when those nations will start hating you & send a fleet to blockade your ports. In my recent campaign as France, Portugal signed trade rights with me & then unfortunately lost control of Pampola. After few turns their relations with me deteriorated & eventually they blockaded my port.

Them attacking you had nothing to do with your trade agreement. Plus if they attack you they take the rep hit. I would say don't sign an agreement with any one you plan on attacking.