Argumenting in a School Debate

[Swagger]

hello


i need this help fast please

i have to debate over immigration and foreign cultures tomorrow at school


just hipotheticly the teacher divided the class in 2 groups, 1 favours immigration, the other is against

[taking the portuguese condition as base]


luckly i'm in the against group, wich is alot more funnier and challenging


i already know what subjects i'll point out over it, but in order to make things funnier (at least for me) i would like your idieas about this:

1- what could i say about ''immigration is not good'' that would STFU them?

2- quotes made by famous people (like.. churchill saying immigration is no good.. blabla)

3- biblical sentences (these would rock xD)


your base can be nationalism and patriotism (We > Them) or whatever


it can go from nazism ideologies to the most democratic



remember this is just for fun, but i want to STFU my mates for good, specially becouse they think they're good debators just becouse they talk too much (unfortunatly what they talk isn't worth the trouble)




so please dont turn this into a ideologie topic or whatever

 

[Morkonan]

... remember this is just for fun, but i want to STFU my mates for good, specially becouse they think they're good debators just becouse they talk too much (unfortunatly what they talk isn't worth the trouble)...

Errrm..

They may be good debaters?

Focusing on catchy phrases and insults doesn't really improve your debating ability. Chances are, it will be quickly pointed out by them or the teacher as being immaterial and inane commentary which, in all likelihood, would end up making you look silly, not smart and effective as a debater.

You want smart, pertinent and logical points to make in favor of your position or in solid rebuttal against theirs. You don't want to fill it with inane babble, funny witticisms and insults which have no substantive value to the topic.

I'm just trying to be helpful since this appears to be a school activity and your performance may truly be judged on how well you do.

As far as a general comment against immigration, one that is frequently used is:

Proposal - Immigrants are taking advantage of the labor and infrastructure that citizens have built upon for generations with no contribution of their own to justify that.

The counter, should it occur - That is true. However, the value of the immigrant is in future contributions, new ideas, broadening of culture and diversity. This is certainly a value-added quality in favor of immigration. (Sometimes, the fact that many countries require immigrants to show education and ability to support themselves before being allowed citizenship or working/residential passes is added to this to show that it is not always indiscriminate.)

 

[Swagger]

They may be good debaters?

not at all, you should see them at philosophy class xD

Focusing on catchy phrases and insults doesn't really improve your debating ability. Chances are, it will be quickly pointed out by them or the teacher as being immaterial and inane commentary which, in all likelihood, would end up making you look silly, not smart and effective as a debater.

You want smart, pertinent and logical points to make in favor of your position or in solid rebuttal against theirs. You don't want to fill it with inane babble, funny witticisms and insults which have no substantive value to the topic.

yes, thus i want some good quotes to say


for example:

''Gabriel 1:3 "blablabla"

- as you can see even the bible... etc



if i was in the favour group, i could quote martin luther king and such



i don't want to insult people, i just want to STFU in a intellectual and eloquent way those arrogants that think they're alot smart (wich they absolutly are not)

 

[InsaneHanz]

Bible quotes won't help your argument.

 

[Morkonan]

not at all, you should see them at philosophy class xD

yes, thus i want some good quotes to say

for example:

''Gabriel 1:3 "blablabla"

- as you can see even the bible... etc

if i was in the favour group, i could quote martin luther king and such

i don't want to insult people, i just want to STFU in a intellectual and eloquent way those arrogants that think they're alot smart (wich they absolutly are not)

Well, that sort of support for a position is commonly called a type of:

"An appeal to authority."

It is a fallacy, in its strictest sense. http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-authority.html

"...This fallacy is committed when the person in question is not a legitimate authority on the subject. More formally, if person A is not qualified to make reliable claims in subject S, then the argument will be fallacious. ...."

So, if THEY use it, and the person or passage quoted is not a true authority on the subject, then you can quickly object based on the fact that it is a fallacy, specifically an "Appeal to Authority."

THAT WILL make you seem intelligent and will definitely make them STFU. Just take care that the same is not done to you when you happen to quote someone or something that is meant to be authoritative but, in reality, has no real authority on the subject.

 

[Yosemite]

they don't integrate
they don't learn the native language
they don't want to be patriots
they don't care about the "native's" customs
they steal out jobs
our women
our homes
our culture

 

[Winter]

You could always do your own homework...

 

[Ummon]

The only good arguments for you in this debate are far beyond high school level. Probably, you lose.

Why is this in the Ethos?

 

[Astaroth]

Since this is not an actual debate it's probably better suited for the TD. Moved.

 

[Lord of Lost Socks]

They took our jobs!

 

[Swagger]

The only good arguments for you in this debate are far beyond high school level. Probably, you lose.

it's not a matter about winning or losing, i am well aware the favour as more arguments


the teacher just wants us to develop our rhetorical skills

 

[EireEmerald]

you are gonna get mashed up so bad in this. Although i am against immigration in Europe at this stage.

 

[Taxandrius]

immigration of low-schooled foreigners => weight on social security
=> invasive cultures

etc. etc.



come on ! Everyone could do this !

 

[Barry Ferguson]

They took our jobs!

they tirrrkk errrr JERRRBBSS




I think you should stand up, stand in silence for a few seconds, make eye contact with a few people then declare, "I hate black people". Then sit down in the stunned silence

 

[Swagger]

most of what you said i already know


plus the marriages by convenience (to get the citizenship) etc..



what about this:

2- quotes made by famous people (like.. churchill saying immigration is no good.. blabla)

3- biblical sentences (these would rock xD)

no ideas?

 

[Taxandrius]

biblical sentences have absolutely no use in this context
Even if you find one, the value is nihil: the bible simply isn't the big authority argument anymore

try a book of Schopenhauer for quotes, that lad spitted on everythig

 

[Ummon]

it's not a matter about winning or losing, i am well aware the favour as more arguments


the teacher just wants us to develop our rhetorical skills

Then be creative, rhetorics is about creativity in combining elements differently and efficaciously. We can't do that for you.

 

[bushbush]

i think u should use racism in your debate, that will work well. Say like colored people are inferior and why should we bring inferior people to our country?

 

[rusina]

Dude you're ed, they only need one word to win you.

Can you guess what word is it?

 

[EireEmerald]

xd XD

" argumenting "

 

[Taxandrius]

Elementary Retorica:

genres / genera dicendi:
Genus Deliberativum (politics)
Genus Iudiciale (court)
Genus Demonstrativum (special events)


5 stages of writing
1. inventio: identify your subjects and arguments
2. dispositio: arrange the arguments (strongest last ofc)
3. elocutio: write it down
4. memoria: lear it ! only pussies use a paper
5. actio: bring it

5 parts of a speech 5 (stage dispositio)
exordium: the introduction, captatio benevolentiae (draw attention), start of emotional argumentation
Propositio: the thesis you will defend/attack
Narratio: explanation of the case, a short stroy to explain the case (ofc the story from your point of view)
Argumentatio: argumentation pro/contra
Peroratio: climax of emotion, the weak points have to be diminished, the strong points have to be stressed.

 

[Von Kickyourass]

Dude you're ed, they only need one word to win you.

Can you guess what word is it?

I have no idea Let me guess: Boobs,fart,table,orange,banana,john. Were any of those correct?

 

[rusina]

I have no idea Let me guess: Boobs,fart,table,orange,banana,john. Were any of those correct?

It starts with n.

 

[Swagger]

i think u should use racism in your debate, that will work well. Say like colored people are inferior and why should we bring inferior people to our country?

the teacher told us we could say whatever we wanted, as long as we have plausible arguments behind it

Dude you're ed, they only need one word to win you.

Can you guess what word is it?

human rights?


but that is 2 words

Spoiler

and again, THOSE COLLEAGUES OF MINE ARE STUPID IGNORANTS THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO TALK CORRECTLY

i can beat the out of them, it's not a matter of winning or losing, IT'S ABOUT KNOWING HOW TO SUPPORT OUR OPINIONS, THING I CAN DO WITHOUT A PROBLEM BY USING MY RHETORICA


they don't even know what rhetorica is... plus they're like scratch CD's, hitting the same key like rock headeds

and it's ing hypothetical

Elementary Retorica:

genres / genera dicendi:
Genus Deliberativum (politics)
Genus Iudiciale (court)
Genus Demonstrativum (special events)


5 stages of writing
1. inventio: identify your subjects and arguments
2. dispositio: arrange the arguments (strongest last ofc)
3. elocutio: write it down
4. memoria: lear it ! only pussies use a paper
5. actio: bring it

5 parts of a speech 5 (stage dispositio)
exordium: the introduction, captatio benevolentiae (draw attention), start of emotional argumentation
Propositio: the thesis you will defend/attack
Narratio: explanation of the case, a short stroy to explain the case (ofc the story from your point of view)
Argumentatio: argumentation pro/contra
Peroratio: climax of emotion, the weak points have to be diminished, the strong points have to be stressed.

thanks that's helpful


but again, no one has asked me


is there any famous quote about nationalism?


we can go for the nationalist side (we > them) so any quote about it would be cool to say

and no biblical quote about the same?



this is a FUN DEBATE my colleagues are sooo ignorant and it's not me being a show offer

i can win them without a problem, i just want to spice the things a little and provide a few good lol times

 

[Atlassmurf]

"Yeah... like... those black people.... what are they actually doing up here?"

Arnold Schwarznegger

 

[Taxandrius]

use the base of ethnic nationalism:
one people,
held together by traditions and culture

other invasive cultures => not at their place here: bad for cultural identity
=> no imigration

the thing isn't a conclusive argument in decent debates, but it'll do in school




damn, I have to write an anti-feminism, pro role-pattern speech friday...

 

[Swagger]

yes i'm bringing the nationalism as a argument


portugal since it's dawn has been really keen about our independence

so it will do the job


so far i have:

-many immigrants reside here and don't want to work, and waste alot of money about social security and such

-illegal immigration and 'subworld' crime networks wich makes a high criminality

-they tend to organize themselves in semi-ghetto neighbourhoods wich are a huge troublemaking

-since they tend to have lots of kids (the government pays an X for each kid, plus all social security stuff and the non-revealed sources of income to be debt their income is big


and alot more


this is a fun debate.. my teacher asked me where i got all my 'extermist' ideas (in a joke way) and i said ''Mein Kampf is the way to go xD''

 

[bushbush]

use the base of ethnic nationalism:
one people,
held together by traditions and culture

i agree.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/

a great source.

 

[Taxandrius]

Yes ! Ofcourse !
Didn't you see my white [DEL]KKK-dress[/DEL] pyjamas ?
or my photograph of [DEL]Mussolini [/DEL] Berlusconi ?

Ofcourse I mean what I say when I propose an argument in a fun debate with -according to Swagger- morons.

 

[Armfelt]

So you [the thread starter] must be the youngest member.