Minor changes to the Romani?

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Hi,

I don't know how far into the development stage of the Romani the EBII team is, but I just thought I would make some minor suggestions to improve gameplay and realism.

The first is regarding recruitment of scorpios, catapults, and both types of ballistae. It seems a tad unrealistic and frustrating they can only be recruited in Italy proper. The knowledge to build these machines was something carried by the Romans to wherever they went, much like any other knowledge a legion possessed, such as bridge, road and fort building for example. A lot of this would be built in situ in case of a siege, and from locally available materials, in which case only wood, horse hair and bronze would be required, plus the necessary knowledge which off course the romans possessed. I find it highly unlikely (and unrealistic) that the romans would import all their siege machinery from Italy to far flung provinces for battles and sieges. This is very frustrating at later stage of the game, I'm now at 133 B.C and would like to expand eastwards, but bringing all this stuff from Italy is extremely time consuming and annoying.

So my suggestion would be that either certain cities spread accross the world map either have a hidden resource for siege machinery (good examples would be Massilia, Syrakuse, Alexandria, Sidon, Carthage, Trapezous, and maybe Olbia) - cities with a good Greek population and thus in theory the knowledge of making such machines, or that the Romans be able to train them at any city with type 2 government and full barracks built. The advantage of having certain cities be able to construct them is that they are widely spaced throughout the game map, so to expand into Gaul and Ibeia one can use Massilia, to Africa one uses Carthage, to the Steppes Olbia, and eastwards Trapezous, Alexandria, Sidon, etc. Secondly, this can also be expanded to other factions also, which I suspect suffer from the same problem (so include for example Carthage, Greeks, Seleucids, Epeiros, Ptolemies, etc etc etc) giving factions with an awarenesss of siege machinery equal coverage throughout the world map.

My second suggestion would be to slightly tweak the Marian reforms so that the second trigger be changed from ''or either conquer 90 settlements'' to ''or either conquer 75 settlements''. The reason for such is that, from my experience, and broadly following Roman historical expansion, eg, having annexed Gaul, Iberia, parts of Germania, Greece, Anatolia, Illyria, Thrace and Dacia, I should be able to have access to related auxiliary units which are available with those reforms. Instead I found I had to expand further to Britain, Egypt, Armenia and Crimeia to fulfil the conditions. Ahistorically, and unrealistically, I had to conquer these areas with armies of triarii, principes, hastati, pedites extraordinarri and italian cavalry when this was not the case, and nor should it be.

So there it is. Let me know what you think.

EDIT: A similar argument can be made perhaps for the Evocati, who could be recruited maybe through the colony building or a certain level of regional barracks? Only 60 years after the time frame of EB the Evocati were called upon to help defeat Boudiccas uprising in Britain, so its not far fetched to have them available for recruitment outside of rome.
 
Last edited:
Hi,

I don't know how far into the development stage of the Romani the EBII team is, but I just thought I would make some minor suggestions to improve gameplay and realism.

The first is regarding recruitment of scorpios, catapults, and both types of ballistae. It seems a tad unrealistic and frustrating they can only be recruited in Italy proper. The knowledge to build these machines was something carried by the Romans to wherever they went, much like any other knowledge a legion possessed, such as bridge, road and fort building for example. A lot of this would be built in situ in case of a siege, and from locally available materials, in which case only wood, horse hair and bronze would be required, plus the necessary knowledge which off course the romans possessed. I find it highly unlikely (and unrealistic) that the romans would import all their siege machinery from Italy to far flung provinces for battles and sieges. This is very frustrating at later stage of the game, I'm now at 133 B.C and would like to expand eastwards, but bringing all this stuff from Italy is extremely time consuming and annoying.

So my suggestion would be that either certain cities spread accross the world map either have a hidden resource for siege machinery (good examples would be Massilia, Syrakuse, Alexandria, Sidon, Carthage, Trapezous, and maybe Olbia) - cities with a good Greek population and thus in theory the knowledge of making such machines, or that the Romans be able to train them at any city with type 2 government and full barracks built. The advantage of having certain cities be able to construct them is that they are widely spaced throughout the game map, so to expand into Gaul and Ibeia one can use Massilia, to Africa one uses Carthage, to the Steppes Olbia, and eastwards Trapezous, Alexandria, Sidon, etc. Secondly, this can also be expanded to other factions also, which I suspect suffer from the same problem (so include for example Carthage, Greeks, Seleucids, Epeiros, Ptolemies, etc etc etc) giving factions with an awarenesss of siege machinery equal coverage throughout the world map.

My second suggestion would be to slightly tweak the Marian reforms so that the second trigger be changed from ''or either conquer 90 settlements'' to ''or either conquer 75 settlements''. The reason for such is that, from my experience, and broadly following Roman historical expansion, eg, having annexed Gaul, Iberia, parts of Germania, Greece, Anatolia, Illyria, Thrace and Dacia, I should be able to have access to related auxiliary units which are available with those reforms. Instead I found I had to expand further to Britain, Egypt, Armenia and Crimeia to fulfil the conditions. Ahistorically, and unrealistically, I had to conquer these areas with armies of triarii, principes, hastati, pedites extraordinarri and italian cavalry when this was not the case, and nor should it be.

So there it is. Let me know what you think.

EDIT: A similar argument can be made perhaps for the Evocati, who could be recruited maybe through the colony building or a certain level of regional barracks? Only 60 years after the time frame of EB the Evocati were called upon to help defeat Boudiccas uprising in Britain, so its not far fetched to have them available for recruitment outside of rome.
Quite like these ideas.
 
The first is regarding recruitment of scorpios, catapults, and both types of ballistae. It seems a tad unrealistic and frustrating they can only be recruited in Italy proper. The knowledge to build these machines was something carried by the Romans to wherever they went, much like any other knowledge a legion possessed, such as bridge, road and fort building for example. A lot of this would be built in situ in case of a siege, and from locally available materials, in which case only wood, horse hair and bronze would be required, plus the necessary knowledge which off course the romans possessed. I find it highly unlikely (and unrealistic) that the romans would import all their siege machinery from Italy to far flung provinces for battles and sieges. This is very frustrating at later stage of the game, I'm now at 133 B.C and would like to expand eastwards, but bringing all this stuff from Italy is extremely time consuming and annoying.
But you can? I'm sure that can do so in AT LEAST syrakuse, either on the regional or normal barracks. They're there, i'm almost 100% sure.

Not that it matters tho, artillery is a huge disappointment in this mod. I bought the biggest Roman one, where the image shows an artillery about 30 times bigger than the soldiers using it.

In the game, instead of a colossal machine i find a repeating balista that has such a crappy range that it couldn't fire on enemy walls without being shot at. Yeah, what a brilliant piece of engineering.



M
y second suggestion would be to slightly tweak the Marian reforms so that the second trigger be changed from ''or either conquer 90 settlements'' to ''or either conquer 75 settlements''. The reason for such is that, from my experience, and broadly following Roman historical expansion, eg, having annexed Gaul, Iberia, parts of Germania, Greece, Anatolia, Illyria, Thrace and Dacia, I should be able to have access to related auxiliary units which are available with those reforms. Instead I found I had to expand further to Britain, Egypt, Armenia and Crimeia to fulfil the conditions. Ahistorically, and unrealistically, I had to conquer these areas with armies of triarii, principes, hastati, pedites extraordinarri and italian cavalry when this was not the case, and nor should it be.
Do what literally 80% of everyone did and change them to slightly more sensible conditions. You can find how easily by searching the threads.


EDIT: A similar argument can be made perhaps for the Evocati, who could be recruited maybe through the colony building or a certain level of regional barracks? Only 60 years after the time frame of EB the Evocati were called upon to help defeat Boudiccas uprising in Britain, so its not far fetched to have them available for recruitment outside of rome.[/QUOTE]
 
But you can? I'm sure that can do so in AT LEAST syrakuse, either on the regional or normal barracks. They're there, i'm almost 100% sure.

Not with the Romani you can't, unless they are available after the Augustan reforms, which I haven't reached yet. I've checked with the Recruitment viewer and its only in Italy.

Not that it matters tho, artillery is a huge disappointment in this mod. I bought the biggest Roman one, where the image shows an artillery about 30 times bigger than the soldiers using it.

In the game, instead of a colossal machine i find a repeating balista that has such a crappy range that it couldn't fire on enemy walls without being shot at. Yeah, what a brilliant piece of engineering.

Another of my sentiments. I know the team is limited with what they can do in the actual battle map, so it didn't really surprise me, I did think the image was for information purposes only. I would also agree the range is very limited, when I tried to besiege a city with my most expensive artillery I had to call it off after archers destroyed a whole unit and nearly wiped out the other two.

M Do what literally 80% of everyone did and change them to slightly more sensible conditions. You can find how easily by searching the threads.

I know its moddable, all I am saying is its something the team should tweak for the second version seeing as its a lot more realistic and doesn't substantially alter gameplay, ie its a change I think should be implemented rather than be left to be edited later by the player.

Actually the best artilery against infantry in EB are the Scorpions, which are the cheapest one's.

True, but against walls the range of the other two need to be increased, because at the current rate they are useless against even a single unit of archers.
 
There are likely to be some adjustments to Marian reform conditions, yes. We'll also probably tie the evocati to certain game mechanics. I think you'll like it, but it's not hardly done at this point.
 
The first is regarding recruitment of scorpios, catapults, and both types of ballistae. It seems a tad unrealistic and frustrating they can only be recruited in Italy proper.

I don't know how we'll handle artillery and it's currently a very low priority item. It's not clear to me that we'll have any such units in the first release.

My second suggestion would be to slightly tweak the Marian reforms ...
Your suggestion is very specific to the pace at which EB1 proceeds, so it really has no application to EB2. I think it's fair to say that we hope to slow the pace of expansion in EB2, while making each turn pass more quickly.

EDIT: A similar argument can be made perhaps for the Evocati, who could be recruited maybe through the colony building or a certain level of regional barracks?

In the first Romani preview, we stated: "Coloniae militares serve as a source of recruitment for factional troops and will be the only source of recruitment for Evocatae."
 
Artillery didn't play a part in Roman Warfare until at least the Marian Reforms. Any Artillery the Romans came accross up to then was from their Greek Allies. Evan in the First Punic War the Romans found it near impossible to take the Heavly Fortified Cities and as long as the Maniple System went it didn't have any Special Seige Expert Section:yes:

I couldn't answer any other questions I never get that far in the Campaign:laughter:
 
Artillery didn't play a part in Roman Warfare until at least the Marian Reforms. Any Artillery the Romans came accross up to then was from their Greek Allies. Evan in the First Punic War the Romans found it near impossible to take the Heavly Fortified Cities and as long as the Maniple System went it didn't have any Special Seige Expert Section:yes:

There is evidence that the Romans possessed artillery prior to the First Punic War. It was likely to have been introduced by Pyrrhus. However, it seems this artillery was used purely as a defensive measure for walled cities and towns.

Source: Benvenuti, Valérie. "The Introduction of Artillery in the Roman World: Hypothesis for a Chronological Definition Based on the Cosa Town Wall." Memoirs of the American Academy in Rome Vol. 47 (2002), 199-207.
 
I don't know how we'll handle artillery and it's currently a very low priority item. It's not clear to me that we'll have any such units in the first release.

Your suggestion is very specific to the pace at which EB1 proceeds, so it really has no application to EB2. I think it's fair to say that we hope to slow the pace of expansion in EB2, while making each turn pass more quickly.

In the first Romani preview, we stated: "Coloniae militares serve as a source of recruitment for factional troops and will be the only source of recruitment for Evocatae."

Thanks for the answers Atilius, I know its probably not a priority at the moment, but will it be implemented in other releases? I think its also quite important because it applies to other factions with artillery and their area of recruitment.

Artillery didn't play a part in Roman Warfare until at least the Marian Reforms. Any Artillery the Romans came accross up to then was from their Greek Allies. Evan in the First Punic War the Romans found it near impossible to take the Heavly Fortified Cities and as long as the Maniple System went it didn't have any Special Seige Expert Section

I couldn't answer any other questions I never get that far in the Campaign

True, but the Marian reforms are the only time they become available for recruitment for the Romans in the first place.

There is evidence that the Romans possessed artillery prior to the First Punic War. It was likely to have been introduced by Pyrrhus. However, it seems this artillery was used purely as a defensive measure for walled cities and towns.

Source: Benvenuti, Valérie. "The Introduction of Artillery in the Roman World: Hypothesis for a Chronological Definition Based on the Cosa Town Wall." Memoirs of the American Academy in Rome Vol. 47 (2002), 199-207.

Would be interesting if it was possible to place artillery on walls, although im not sure if thats modable in EB2.
 

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