Would you convert if...

[MasterAdnin]

From the Christian perspective, this "prophet" serves to deny Christ's divinity and redeeming powers of salvation through a focus on the Old Testament God. He seeks to return man to salvation under Law rather than by Grace. So, in effect, this denial of Christ's saving grace makes this "prophet" a servant of Satan, a plaything of the Beast.

Umm...okay, I do not get it. So saying to serve, praise, and worship God and to deny Satan and curse Satan is going against Christianity how? OH, by the way, I'm not talking about Muhammad(pbuh) if thats what you think I'm trying to get at.

Salaam,
Adnan

 

[~Beren~]

Would you convert to a religion which a person was preaching if you saw the man preaching do a miracle? By miracle I mean things like cure blindness with merely his hands, or split the moon, or split the sea, or multiply water and food, or making it rain on demand.



Salaam,
Adnan

If he grants me the power to do whatever I want, whenever want, yes.

If not, then no.

 

[boofhead]

Umm...okay, I do not get it. So saying to serve, praise, and worship God and to deny Satan and curse Satan is going against Christianity how? OH, by the way, I'm not talking about Muhammad(pbuh) if thats what you think I'm trying to get at.

A prophet can say serve God, deny Satan all he likes, but unless he is calling people to Jesus he is obviously going against Christianity, and could be deemed a heathen.

The Bible also states that the Antichrist will convince people with miracles - even the Devil can do them. Of course the Antichrist would turn people away from the salvation of Christ, just as any false prophet would who didn't focus his message upon the Messiah.

 

[MasterAdnin]

A prophet can say serve God, deny Satan all he likes, but unless he is calling people to Jesus he is obviously going against Christianity, and could be deemed a heathen.

I find it odd that you refer to Jesus(pbuh) and God as two different entities. Are they not supposed to be the same? If so then how is saying serve God any different than saying serve Jesus(pbuh)?

Salaam,
Adnan

 

[boofhead]

I find it odd that you refer to Jesus(pbuh) and God as two different entities. Are they not supposed to be the same? If so then how is saying serve God any different than saying serve Jesus(pbuh)?

God is three different entities in fact. Jesus was God in human form. Jews worship God, but are not Christians, as they do not follow Christ.

"Who is a liar, but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is Antichrist, who denies the Father, and the Son" (1 John 2:22); "And every spirit that dissolveth Jesus, is not of God; and this is Antichrist" (1 John 4:3); "For many seducers are gone out into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh: this is a seducer and an Antichrist" (2 John 7).

 

[jankren]

I think if he was real I prefer to follow Jackie Estacado. JK .

 

[MasterAdnin]

God is three different entities in fact. Jesus was God in human form. Jews worship God, but are not Christians, as they do not follow Christ.

So then you worship three entities? If that is the case then it seems that you are contradicting Judaism from which Christianity has to have backing from.

Salaam,
Adnan

 

[Thanatos]

I rely on the message, not on the miracles.

 

[boofhead]

So then you worship three entities? If that is the case then it seems that you are contradicting Judaism from which Christianity has to have backing from.

Salaam,
Adnan

The Trinity, Adnan, the Trinity. Three in one. A Christian can worship God, in the name of Jesus Christ, by the power of the Holy Spirit.

From the Catholic Encyclopedia

The Trinity is the term employed to signify the central doctrine of the Christian religion -- the truth that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another.

Thus, in the words of the Athanasian Creed: "the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God." In this Trinity of Persons the Son is begotten of the Father by an eternal generation, and the Holy Spirit proceeds by an eternal procession from the Father and the Son. Yet, notwithstanding this difference as to origin, the Persons are co-eternal and co-equal: all alike are uncreated and omnipotent. This, the Church teaches, is the revelation regarding God's nature which Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came upon earth to deliver to the world: and which she proposes to man as the foundation of her whole dogmatic system.

 

[Scar Face]

No. Organized religions are inherently flawed. They claim either, that you will burn eternally (or not reach paradise, take your pick) if you dont follow that religion. Or, that so long as you live a good life you can reach whatever glorious afterlife there is. I have a few problems with that!

1) If I indeed dont burn, or am not kept out of a paradise, then what is the point of joining the religion? There is none, except to stroke Gods ego.

2) If I burn for not joining this religion, then God is a genocidal Tyrant. The same way people fought, struggled, and died for their Freedom, I would do the same. I would gladly burn eternally if it meant I didn't give the satisfaction to a Tyrant; that I worshiped him. If God is indeed this cruel, this insane, then he is the embodiment of the Devil. No thank you.

 

[sephodwyrm]

Supposedly, the purpose of the Anti-Christ is to make people turn away from YAHWEH.

So he would probably a gentle, kind man and a great humanist.
Definitely not the monstrous alpha male genocide negotiator and endorser of mass rape that we read about in the OT.
Oh wait, if you guys are willing to toss away the OT, I would say that the Anti-Christ has already came.
His name was Jesus.
He's a cool guy. I give you that.

 

[Ummon]

If you convert because of the miracle you are on the wrong path. Miracles are to attract your attention in the worst of cases. You must be convinced by content.

 

[removeduser_487563287433]

Would you convert to a religion which a person was preaching if you saw the man preaching do a miracle? By miracle I mean things like cure blindness with merely his hands, or split the moon, or split the sea, or multiply water and food, or making it rain on demand.



Salaam,
Adnan

If I did see such a thing? No, of course not. I would seek the rational explanation or throw an egg because that is the British way towards David Blaine.

 

[MasterAdnin]

The Trinity, Adnan, the Trinity. Three in one. A Christian can worship God, in the name of Jesus Christ, by the power of the Holy Spirit.

From the Catholic Encyclopedia

3=1?? I was taught that 3=/=1. I was taught that 3>1.

Also so God's name is Jesus and He gets his power from the Holy Spirit?:hm: So then God depends on another entity for power? Doesn't sound like God to me.

Salaam,
Adnan

 

[sephodwyrm]

3=1?? I was taught that 3=/=1. I was taught that 3>1.

Yes indeed.

An example of modern Doxology is as follows:
Praise God from Whom all blessings Flow,
Praise Him all creatures here below,
Praise Him above ye Heavenly Host,
Praise Father, Son and Holy Ghost

Not to mention that this totally contradicts the Prayer of Jesus Christ (which is actually directly quoted from the Bible):
Our Father, Who art in Heaven
Hallowed be Thy name
Thy Kingdom come
Thy Will be done
On earth, as it is, in Heaven
Give us this day, our daily bread
And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors
Lead us not into temptation
And deliver us from Evil
For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory
Forever and ever
Amen

In any case, Jesus Christ never mentioned himself as God, never mentioned the Holy Spirit and was rather rude towards his mother (but not to the point of breaking the 10 commandments I hope). In fact, Jesus Christ was being very careful not to associate partners with God.

Something that people who claim to worship him has totally failed at.

 

[boofhead]

3=1?? I was taught that 3=/=1. I was taught that 3>1.

Also so God's name is Jesus and He gets his power from the Holy Spirit?:hm: So then God depends on another entity for power? Doesn't sound like God to me.

Salaam,
Adnan

Remember Adnan, God can do what He wills. He can be 7 million in one at the same time if He wishes - He could also appear as a little ballerina girl in a pink tutu if He so desired, or a fish with the head of an antelope. We must be careful not to place man-made limits upon the Unlimited Creator - it is we who have limits imposed upon us, not God.

 

[Sétanta]

No.

The Devil uses such tricks to try and compel people to his side, even those bound for great things.

Also so God's name is Jesus and He gets his power from the Holy Spirit? So then God depends on another entity for power? Doesn't sound like God to me.

The Holy Spirit is part of God. He gets His power, because He is God. The Holy Spirit is the name for the aspect of God that we see working on Earth.

Like the Force, only God is the source of the Force/Holy Spirit.

In any case, Jesus Christ never mentioned himself as God

Wrong. He calls Himself God many times. Why did the Jews kill him? He claimed to be God.

 

[sephodwyrm]

He calls Himself God many times. Why did the Jews kill him? He claimed to be God.

Prove it.
The reason why the established theocracy (I don't think all the Jews are out to kill him) wanted to kill him was because he was undermining their authority and proving to be a more charismatic leader than they are.

 

[Sétanta]

Why bother showing passages from scripture, you aren't going to believe it.

 

[MasterAdnin]

Remember Adnan, God can do what He wills. He can be 7 million in one at the same time if He wishes - He could also appear as a little ballerina girl in a pink tutu if He so desired, or a fish with the head of an antelope. We must be careful not to place man-made limits upon the Unlimited Creator - it is we who have limits imposed upon us, not God.

If they are separate entities, they are different beings. Not only that, if they are different entities it is polytheism.

The Holy Spirit is part of God. He gets His power, because He is God. The Holy Spirit is the name for the aspect of God that we see working on Earth.

Like the Force, only God is the source of the Force/Holy Spirit.

If the Holy Spirit is part of God then why is it a separate entity from Jesus, and the Father?

Salaam,
Adnan

 

[Sétanta]

If the Holy Spirit is part of God then why is it a separate entity from Jesus, and the Father?

It is the Trinity. I'll explain it simply. God has three aspects: Father, Son, Holy Spirit. This is similar to how water has three H₂)O: Solid (ice), Liquid (liquid water), Gas (steam).

Thus they are separate while being the same thing. There really isn't anyway to comprehend it unless you thoroughly study the Bible and read about what Jesus says about Himself, God and the Holy Spirit.

 

[MasterAdnin]

It is the Trinity. I'll explain it simply. God has three aspects: Father, Son, Holy Spirit. This is similar to how water has three H₂)O: Solid (ice), Liquid (liquid water), Gas (steam).

Thus they are separate while being the same thing. There really isn't anyway to comprehend it unless you thoroughly study the Bible and read about what Jesus says about Himself, God and the Holy Spirit.

Though if H₂O has three forms that does not mean that it can assume all three at the same time. Not only that, if all three are present at the same time that means that they are not all the same. Say the Holy Spirit is the steam while the solid is the Father. If they are present at the same time that would mean that they are different because they can be separated, thus they are separate substances. Again, if this was the case, it leads to polytheism.

Salaam,
Adnan

 

[Sétanta]

No. God, like water, is one essence and one substance.

You wouldn't say that ice and steam are different elements, even though they have different characteristics. Just like you wouldn't say that Jesus and God the Father are different beings, even though they too have different characteristics.

Polytheism implies that there are separate deities. Not the case with the Trinity, like I said. Separate beings and separate elements is what polytheism is all about, while the Trinity is distinct beings that are of the same element.

You couldn't take the Son away from the Trinity and be left with a divine being, like you could in a polytheistic cult. Take Apollo away from the Olympians, and guess what, the other gods still exist. Take Jesus away from the Trinity, and God ceases to exist.

 

[MasterAdnin]

No. God, like water, is one essence and one substance.

Yes, but you can separate the different parts. You can separate the steam from the liquid, and you can make the solid into liquid. Therefore, when they are separate, they can be considered as separate substances.

You wouldn't say that ice and steam are different elements, even though they have different characteristics. Just like you wouldn't say that Jesus and God the Father are different beings, even though they too have different characteristics.

Yes, but the only problem is that with water you cannot have steam if there is ice, you cannot have liquid if there is steam, you cannot have ice if there is liquid, therefore they are divisible and not one.

Polytheism implies that there are separate deities. Not the case with the Trinity, like I said. Separate beings and separate elements is what polytheism is all about, while the Trinity is distinct beings that are of the same element.

They are of the same element, but split up into three parts? Without one, the others cannot function correct?

You couldn't take the Son away from the Trinity and be left with a divine being, like you could in a polytheistic cult. Take Apollo away from the Olympians, and guess what, the other gods still exist. Take Jesus away from the Trinity, and God ceases to exist.

So if Jesus is taken out of the Trinity it is not God anymore, correct? Therefore the Father and the Holy Spirit require Jesus to function correct? This means that the Father and the Holy Spirit are separate beings because they would still exist without Jesus, but they would just not be divine beings.

All this is starting to sound a lot like Greek myth and folklore, no offense.

Salaam,
Adnan

 

[David Deas]

The Bible never claims Yashua and Yahweh are the same individual. But Christians have their own unique mythology that is often times only loosely based in Abrahamic canon.

 

[Sétanta]

I see your understanding of chemical elements is somewhat lacking.

Yes, but you can separate the different parts. You can separate the steam from the liquid, and you can make the solid into liquid. Therefore, when they are separate, they can be considered as separate substances.

Exactly what I am saying. They have separate characteristics, and can be separated from each other (because clearly Jesus isn't the Holy Spirit). But at the same time, the liquid and solid is still H2O. No matter what temperature it is heated to, it is H2O. Still the same thing.

To be honest I don't think there is any more explaining I can do. I obviously can't get you to see the obvious, so why bother.

But your last remark about myth and folklore actually got me laughing. You're calling Christianity that when you are a Muslim? I don't know about you, but Islamic mythology has some crazy stuff. The whole Isra and Miraj journey on the winged horse (who else has a winged horse...)

The Bible never claims Yashua and Yahweh are the same individual. But Christians have their own, unique mythology.

Maybe if you actulaly read the bible

 

[MasterAdnin]

Exactly what I am saying. They have separate characteristics, and can be separated from each other (because clearly Jesus isn't the Holy Spirit). But at the same time, the liquid and solid is still H2O. No matter what temperature it is heated to, it is H2O. Still the same thing.

Again, one cannot exist in the presence of another. Steam cannot be present when ice is present.

To be honest I don't think there is any more explaining I can do. I obviously can't get you to see the obvious, so why bother.

How is the Trinity obvious? It says that 3=1, it says that a Man is part of God.

But your last remark about myth and folklore actually got me laughing. You're calling Christianity that when you are a Muslim? I don't know about you, but Islamic mythology has some crazy stuff. The whole Isra and Miraj journey on the winged horse (who else has a winged horse...)

Ah that. That story is actually nothing compared to the Demi God which Christians have made Jesus(pbuh) out to be. Though if you want I can explain the story, and it is quite simple as what the Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) experienced was spiritual and not physical.

Maybe if you actulaly read the bible

Maybe I will read the Bible.

Salaam,
Adnan

 

[jankren]

The whole Isra and Miraj journey on the winged horse (who else has a winged horse...)

That is indeed one funny stuff. But it doesnt exist in Al Quran though.

 

[MasterAdnin]

That is indeed one funny stuff. But it doesnt exist in Al Quran though.

Have you ever heard of the Quranic Surah "Al Isra"? Though I'm not sure about the winged horse.

Salaam,
Adnan

 

[David Deas]

Except I *have* read the Bible, Setana. And I'm 100% confident that I've forgotten more about the Bible, and history in general than you'll ever know.

The fact that you really don't have a solitary clue what you're talking about here is exactly why you're currently embarassing yourself with all these ridiculous molecular analogies. Instead of driveling saliva all over the thread, why don't you just do what you've been asked and provide an example of what passages from the Bible you're extrapolating? I'm in the mood for a good laugh.