Ultimate AI - Discussion *OLD*

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Re: Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.4*

Downloading now.

Just wondering, for the campaign and diplomatic AI did you just revise the vanilla 1.2 AI or did you continue to base your work off your UAI 1.3?

I guess I want to know how much of the new 1.2 AI you left intact. Thanks.
 
Re: Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.4*

ViZ I noticed you have some compatibility with Lite Mod, I've installed both it and Ultimate AI 1.4 will they work together as is or do I need to copy over some files?
 
Re: Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.4*

Time to start a fresh game. :)

By just looking at the files I wonder if there has been some change to cater to previous reports of huge cities being impossible to obtain?

About the installer; when Restricted AI Alliances option is ticked the decription suggests that christian/islamic alliances would be possible. I just wonder if it's not the other way around?
 
Re: Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.4*

Time to start a fresh game. :)

By just looking at the files I wonder if there has been some change to cater to previous reports of huge cities being impossible to obtain?

About the installer; when Restricted AI Alliances option is ticked the decription suggests that christian/islamic alliances would be possible. I just wonder if it's not the other way around?

When the option is ticked, the christian/islamic alliances are disabled. But you are right there is a buggy "not" in the description.

EDIT: Updated DL with correct description.

ViZ I noticed you have some compatibility with Lite Mod, I've installed both it and Ultimate AI 1.4 will they work together as is or do I need to copy over some files?

I only added the EDU.txt file from it.

Regards
GrandViZ
 
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Re: Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.4*

I was wondering if someone could help me out with how to merge the Campaign AI with Lusted's 2.3. For changes in descr_strat you said

"Most important are the AI labels and profiles, as well as the initialization part of the diplomacy at the end of the file!"

I understand the labels, but I'm not sure about profiles and the initialization. Where exactly are those in the file?
 
Re: Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.4*

Finally a new Ultimate AI! :thumbsup2
bad luck for me that I've just released an update for my mod a few hours ago where there was no UAI 1.4...:(

Anyway, thanks Grand Viz! I can't wait to try it! :smile:
 
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Re: Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.4*

IMPORTANT: I had to upload an updated version 1.4.1, as I found out, that the UAI 1.4 uninstaller uaiuinst.exe has a severe bug, that will damage your M2TW installation when used.

Please do not use the uaiuinst.exe if you have downloaded the UAI 1.4 version!

@Izalude
The ai profile is defined for every faction like this:

faction england, trader henry

The diplomacy is defined at the end of the file:

faction_standings england, -0.6 slave
faction_standings england, -0.6 france
...

Replace all values in this section.

I also changed the starting gold and income for most factions.

Regards
GrandViZ
 
Re: Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.4*

GrandViz, thank you very much for the info. I'll make the necessary changes, and let you know what I come up with. :thumbsup2 I'm sure I'm going to enjoy using your mod a lot.
 
Re: Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.4*

I only added the EDU.txt file from it.

Regards
GrandViZ

I know that, but do you know if anything needs to be done to make both mods work together because they have separate launchers.
 
Re: Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.4.1*

@OmegaRed: That really shouldn't be an issue. Grandviz just took the changes the candelarius made to balance units and added them to his export descr unit text file. This means UAI games will have useful janissaries and other two handed weapons just like litemod.

Good call on that Grandviz.

A couple of questions though:

What are the optional VnV changes you added in 1.4?

Is the "realistic building tree" inclusion optional? If so, what files would we remove to bring back the vanilla recruitment options?
Edit:oops forget that. It's clearly stated in the readme what files are not necessary for strictly ai modification.

Oh: quick bug issue: for some reason cesarea (turkish castle) begins the game with an "eastern european masjid" which is missing an icon and is described as a "placeholder, does not belong to this faction" in the description.
thanks and kudos for the great work.
 
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Re: Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.4.1*

Good find irreg, there's a typo for Casesarea in descr_strat where the line "type temple_muslim masjid" should read "type temple_muslim_castle c_masjid"
 
Re: Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.4.1*

Good find irreg, there's a typo for Casesarea in descr_strat where the line "type temple_muslim masjid" should read "type temple_muslim_castle c_masjid"

Thanks for reporting, will fix it. *EDIT: FIXED - Download and changelog updated*

In regards to the ancillaries triggers, I manually merged the fixes from official 1.2 and the former VnV Mod.
 
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Re: Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.4.1*

Hey Viz I did what you told me too, and it was as easy as you said. Not to sure what I'm doing wrong in the game itself tho. I'm playing on M/VH, and I'm basically abysmal with every faction, yet none of them want to go to war with me. I'll attack and the very next turn they'll come asking for a ceasefire. This is me as Spain, and I'm constantly trying to get the Moors and France to attack me. I even went and captured Jerusalem from Egypt on a crusade, and the very next turn they offered a ceasefire.

Any ideas on what I could be doing wrong? Maybe I'm playing on too easy of Campaign AI setting? What would you recommend?
 
Re: Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.4.1*

Hey Viz I did what you told me too, and it was as easy as you said. Not to sure what I'm doing wrong in the game itself tho. I'm playing on M/VH, and I'm basically abysmal with every faction, yet none of them want to go to war with me. I'll attack and the very next turn they'll come asking for a ceasefire. This is me as Spain, and I'm constantly trying to get the Moors and France to attack me. I even went and captured Jerusalem from Egypt on a crusade, and the very next turn they offered a ceasefire.

Any ideas on what I could be doing wrong? Maybe I'm playing on too easy of Campaign AI setting? What would you recommend?

I only test with very hard setting, so this is what I recommend. I also use a money script for the AI, so if you don't it is very likely that the other AI factions are too weak to attack you.

In this case, you should copy the file campaign_script.txt from the imperial_campaign folder. But you should also know, that the UAI is balanced for the setup it comes with, and it may be that it doesn't work well with the vanilla setup. At least you should try the money script.

Just wondering, for the campaign and diplomatic AI did you just revise the vanilla 1.2 AI or did you continue to base your work off your UAI 1.3?

I guess I want to know how much of the new 1.2 AI you left intact. Thanks.

UAI 1.4 is based on the previous work, I only use some new options that came with the official patch.

Regards
GrandViZ
 
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Re: Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.4.1*

There's a problem downloading the mod from here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=1342.. it will always getting you to: http://www5.file-upload.net/data.php?data=upload/07.05.07/5hfmss.exe

Anyway to fix this, or get it from some other place.. pretty please?!!
I'm pretty sure that's supposed to happen, just click the "download" button on that page (the one you are redirected to).

@GrandViZ, I just noticed a small bug with the diplomacy.

I just started a new game with Spain on VH campaign difficulty, this is with a fresh install of M2TW, updated to 1.02, then installed the 1.4.1 version of your mod. On the second turn, the moors asked me for trade rights, I changed to the offer to:

Offer:
Trade rights
Map info

Demand:
Map info

Then the moors rejected and made the offer of:

Offer:
Trade rights
Map info

with no demand.

I think the AI got a little confused.
 
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Re: Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.4.1*

You didn't understood, when I would press the download button or link from the http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=1342 page, I would have been redirected to the http://www.file-upload.net/download-266839/uai_setup.exe.html which had a download button on it.

Yet, when I pressed that button I was getting to the http://www5.file-upload.net/data.php?data=upload/07.05.07/5hfmss.exe link, which timed out, and nothing happened.

This morning I succeeded to get it though, maybe they had some problems yesterday evening with their redirection code.

Thanks anyway.
 
Re: Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.4.1*

@Incinerate
Thanks for reporting, I'll check the values for diplomatic proposals, and see if it can be fixed.

@adonys
Glad to hear that it worked.

@all
I would appreciate if someone would report a AAR for a campaign with UAI 1.4.1 (full installation). Well maybe I'll do myself, but at least I can try to delegate. :)

Regards
GrandViZ
 
Re: Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.4.1*

Just an ongoing still early game but at least I was pleasantly surprised to find that my most recent pre 1.4 strategy of taking it easy early on to build up without even making any alliances was shattered. As Hungary the Byz attacked me early on (expected sooner or later) but then also Venice (good relations but they had no-one else engaged and might have felt I was week too) which made things quite interesting to say the least. So far it's been feeling like a very "alive" game and I'm loving all the little details.

Byz settled for peace when I offered them some compensation in the form of two villages they seemed to want. A good deal since we had been to war for a while and I had taken a city worth much more than those villages. Overall in the world things seem a little bit more aggressive with several smaller wars going and HRE on the move with France as a surprising ally, leading to an early defeat of the Danes.

Right now I think I'll run a couple of new games as Hungary to see how things play out early on compared to this one.

Edit: Ah yes, usually when striking a deal of Trade agreement with no extra demand the result has been a Barely Accepted and a lowering of relations. Possibly a sign of something that could be tweaked as it seems a bit harsh.
 
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Re: Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.4.1*

Sounds like a fun game. The improvement I like most, is the increased aggressiveness and the fact, that the AI will seek peace in certain circumstances, not only with the human player but also with other AI factions.

France and HRE often get an alliance because they tend to get excommunicated early on. I made the same observation in many of my test games.

Any feedback on the settlement growth parameter?

Ah yes, usually when striking a deal of Trade agreement with no extra demand the result has been a Barely Accepted and a lowering of relations. Possibly a sign of something that could be tweaked as it seems a bit harsh.

This is due to the low value trade agreements have for the AI when offered by the human player. It was to lower the possibility of diplomatical exploit. You think it will be better to have a neutral evaluation of trade agreements? IMHO the human player should have to invest something when he wants a better outcome in regard to relations.

Regards
GrandViZ
 
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Re: Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.4.1*

It certainly is more lively early on, so nobody can complain about dull starts anymore. Seeking an early alliance seems in general necessary again which is good. Through three early games I've seen HRE stomping Denmark or Poland and in two of them France was allied. In the third game there was a crusade called against HRE but due to the french alliance nobody not already at war dared to take it up. Just a tendency and not necessarily a problem but perhaps france and HRE could have a little more negative relations early on. I don't know if it's possible to make them value the papal standing more but if so then perhaps that could be tweaked just a little.

Trade Agreements are fine as they are now as long as one's aware of it. Giving just 100gold seems to safeguard from lowered relations and sometimes a trade agreement will seem beneficial to the counterpart so one can probably ask for 100gold or just settle for the goodwill reaction of the deal. :smile:

We'll have to see about population growth later in a game.
 
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Re: Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.4.1*

Don't let the early achievements of the HRE or France mislead you, cause I have seen them crumble later into the game on several occasions. Their alliance is not a result of their good relations, but the fact they often both get excommunicated. Excommunicated factions will seek an alliance to withstand the aggression of the other catholic nations. It might be also an option to give the Papal States an active role back.

The position of the Danes is weak, and it is a pick for people that like a more challenging start. To increase the alliance options of the Danes would be another way to increase their early survivability.

However, I don't like the idea of every faction beeing equal in regard to its starting position. It should be more likely, that the historical powers dominate over the smaller nations.

The fundamental idea should be to design an AI that has a will to win, and if the HRE considers its neighbours easy targets, it should attack - don't you think? Rescue the Danes is a nice roleplaying option for the human player as well :).

EDIT: France and HRE start with -0.2 relations. 0.8 is precondition for a relation based alliance proposal. That means HRE and France will only ally each other in case of improving relations (e.g. due to common enemies) or getting excommunicated by the pope. I could introduce a new threshold in this case however, to make such an alliance less likely. What you think?

Regards
GrandViZ
 
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Re: Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.4.1*

I see, yeah if it's the excommunication that drives them to ally then I can understand why they seemed to ally often and early. And that perticular tendency was all I was potentially worried about. Everthing else is fine just as you say. Perhaps a use of that chance factor(if it's working?) on alliances between excommunicated factions could be used to introduce a factor that would make them ally less often in such a situation. I take it that just lowering the France/HRE starting relations to say -4 wouldn't make much of a difference on their eagerness to ally when excommunicated early in the game?
 
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Re: Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.4.1*

I'll chip in with a point of view from a turkish campaign:

I had a rough start diplomatically because I attacked constantinople early, gaining me an untrustworthy reputation that has taken me 25 turns to bring back out of the toilet (I'm at very reliable now). At turn 30, no one has accepted an alliance despite offering them "very generous" compensation.

-There seems to be a problem with the reputation system for AI factions. Right now in my game no faction has a reputation below "mixed." Venice unilaterally attacked and destroyed the weakened byzantines. Afterwards, they demanded 150 gold or they would attack turkey as well. The turn after I paid, they attacked anyways. Despite this, they still have a "reliable" reputation. The same could be said of Egypt who also unilaterally attacked me repeatedly but remains with a "very reliable" reputation. HRE is also invading poland with out any damage to their rep. Somethings not quite right I think...

-The automatic lowering of relations tied to difficulty seems a bit rough at the moment. Right now I have poor or worse relations with every faction on the board except the moors. Considering that there is no easy way to raise relations in UAI, I'm not quite sure how to ameliorate this problem.

Sigh... everyone hates turkey it seems.

Edit: clarity

On another note, the new settlement mechanics are working great in my opinion. Growth is slowed dramatically but small settlements no longer require 5 chivalry governors to maintain 1% growth rate.

The penalties on fast expansion seem right on target as well. I've consolidated asia minor but am financially not capable of expanding further without building up economically. This makes for added challenge but not to the point of stifling frustration. That's a fantastic improvement on gameplay.
 
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Re: Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.4.1*

How do I do about deleting the script that takes away money from the player each turn? (Opening up the console on about turn 20= year 1100 it says add money -50 or -100). Also, my Financial prediction tells me the profit is going to be ~3000, but in reality, the next turn I have only 1000 more. Or do I remember wrong and the army costs, general salaries etc are taken away after it and not counted in the financial prediction??

I'm fine with using the script that gives the AI more money (so long as it keeps my game stable), but I really hate when it is with the expense of the player. (IF it is...)


Also, is there a way to fix the too aggressive AI? Playing as Sicily, Venice expanded to Tunis and Tripoli, while Milan took Zaragoga. Aggressive AI too, is fine, but this is just too much (especially the Milan-Zaragoga issue). A nice surprise I had is that Portugal had conquered most of the Moor's Andalusian settlements, though personally I wished that the AI would've started the Reconquista. ;)

EDIT: It's the Growth Balance Script, right? (In world/maps/campaign/imperial/campaign_script.txt).

I removed all lines there, so now it should be "fixed"?

Attached is the altered campaign script file, if anyone feels like me (probably not :P) feel free to use it (but remember, courtesy of the authors of UltimateAI!)
 
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Re: Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.4.1*

I removed all lines there, so now it should be "fixed"?

You did it right. BTW it is a good idea for another optional installation feature, I'll add it to the next release.

In regard to aggressive AI, you mean you don't want the AI to expand? Well, how it is then supposed to win the game? I don't get it.

The automatic lowering of relations tied to difficulty seems a bit rough at the moment.

There is no such condition in my file. I just did a test campaign with the Turks myself, and although the majority of AI factions has mixed reputation, I also have AIs with better and worse reputation.

Here the factors for change in relations over time:

+ allies
+ enemy of an enemy
- war
- ally of an enemy

Also for factions with different religion it will be more difficult to improve relations.

Furthermore, you'll lose reputation if you sack settlements, kill prisoners or take ransom, overly use assassins, declare war to an ally or without a warning (that is the use of the diplomatical option "or we will attack"). Accordingly, you'll gain reputation if you do the opposite of these actions.

Regards
GrandViZ
 
Re: Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.4.1*

In regard to aggressive AI, you mean you don't want the AI to expand? Well, how it is then supposed to win the game? I don't get it.

No, it's good that they're expanding (and they're expanding VERY fast, probably faster than me! I ended up restarting the campaign so I could assault all the settlements before the AI! :laughter: ), but the problem is that they go too far. Milan shouldn't go to the Iberian Peninsula, it should stay in Italy (although I had conquer the only rebel settlement north of Rome, Florence, so there weren't really any place for them to go. But still, if I remember correctly then in RTW the AI would only attack a city if a) It was their Victory Condition b) It neighbours their region c) They can see it, and d) It doesn't have a huge garrison. (Not really sure, esp. about the last one).)
 
Re: Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.4.1*

The AI will only go for non-neighbouring rebels during peacetime. It's a viable strategy to grab all available neutral settlements before going to war with other factions. However, the AI will declare war when it has the necessary millitary power.

Regards
GrandViZ
 
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