Difficulty Poll for v1.9 Beta 7

Difficulty Poll for v1.9 Beta 7

How difficult is the economy in v1.9 Beta 7?

  • Way too difficult

    Votes: 5 20.0%

  • A little too difficult

    Votes: 13 52.0%

  • Just Right

    Votes: 3 12.0%

  • Still too Easy.

    Votes: 4 16.0%
  • Total voters
    25
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I voted "a little too difficult" - it's actually more like in between a little too and impossible :) The only way you can successfully fund an attacking army is to raid - and I'm not entirely sure how realistic this is considered.

But it's a step in the right direction - maybe you could lower upkeep/recruitment costs and keep the other things the same?
 
I kinda like how it is now, I always thought it was to easy to keep and army up and have multiply stacks going all the time. Way it was makes it alot less likely that you can conquer the entire world in the first 100 yrs and makes you actually pay attention to having a limited supply of troops. Maybe the incomes should be increased a little to make it easier to build buildings but I dont think upkeep should be changed since its the real limiting factor on how fast your empire can expand.
 
True it's quite too expensive for the generals, I think that a maximum of 500$ is a max, because if your royal family is high, you will maybe pay really high for memebers that will not fight often. The really low units are too much too, i don't think the peasants where payed that much for going fight, it's need to be 200, not more, there were the worst fighters, so the upkeep must be same, it's same for the scouts, they are too too high for their possibilities. The strong units may maybe cost more than is the normal game, but not that much for the weaks units, it's totally too much. The main thing that make that you have money really easily in the normal game is that you can take ennemies settlement really easly, so i think the main thing to update is the artificial intelligence ( and it's going in the god way, i'm playing in very hard and it's often challenging into battles) but i think it should be again updated to be a challenge in hard level, and that players don't have to play laways in very hard to have a normal game. Mainly the upkeep is far too high for much of the units, i think that with a again better intelligence, it will be harder to conquer, so you will need to have stronger armies and more tactics to won, it will make money more hard to get.
 
It's difficult, but not impossible. However, my main concerns are the general's upkeep and the starting armies. Upkeep for generals and family members are too high, in my opinion. Plus, now with the new family trees, some factions will be flooded with male relatives in about 20 turns. It seriously hurts the economy. Right now, in order for me to be economically viable, I have to send a -ton- of sons alone to rebel settlements to get slaughtered (makes me wish for a "kill_character" command in the in-game console)

Also, because of the large upkeep costs (which by themselves isn't all that bad. I almost prefer it, because a battle really means something significant. If your main army gets wiped out, there is no hulking 2 stack army behind you) starting armies are far too large and expensive. Every new camaign I start, I have to dismiss about 70% of my army, and then rebuild slowly. I don't horribly mind this, but it is somethiing that could be lessened by just not giving each faction any more troops then they can reasonably sustain.

What could prove interesting is starting every faction out with militias inside cities, and have the player build up the army they want from the beggining, over the course of 10 turns or so. I don't know how feasible this is though. Just a simple suggestion!
 
super-panda said:
True it's quite too expensive for the generals, I think that a maximum of 500$ is a max, because if your royal family is high, you will maybe pay really high for memebers that will not fight often. The really low units are too much too, i don't think the peasants where payed that much for going fight, it's need to be 200, not more, there were the worst fighters, so the upkeep must be same, it's same for the scouts, they are too too high for their possibilities. The strong units may maybe cost more than is the normal game, but not that much for the weaks units, it's totally too much. The main thing that make that you have money really easily in the normal game is that you can take ennemies settlement really easly, so i think the main thing to update is the artificial intelligence ( and it's going in the god way, i'm playing in very hard and it's often challenging into battles) but i think it should be again updated to be a challenge in hard level, and that players don't have to play laways in very hard to have a normal game. Mainly the upkeep is far too high for much of the units, i think that with a again better intelligence, it will be harder to conquer, so you will need to have stronger armies and more tactics to won, it will make money more hard to get.
Click to expand...

I wish. There isn't much more I can do to improve the AI. Perhaps Patch 1.2 will improve it.

It better improve it. :mad:

infernocanuck said:
It's difficult, but not impossible. However, my main concerns are the general's upkeep and the starting armies. Upkeep for generals and family members are too high, in my opinion. Plus, now with the new family trees, some factions will be flooded with male relatives in about 20 turns. It seriously hurts the economy. Right now, in order for me to be economically viable, I have to send a -ton- of sons alone to rebel settlements to get slaughtered (makes me wish for a "kill_character" command in the in-game console)

Also, because of the large upkeep costs (which by themselves isn't all that bad. I almost prefer it, because a battle really means something significant. If your main army gets wiped out, there is no hulking 2 stack army behind you) starting armies are far too large and expensive. Every new camaign I start, I have to dismiss about 70% of my army, and then rebuild slowly. I don't horribly mind this, but it is somethiing that could be lessened by just not giving each faction any more troops then they can reasonably sustain.

What could prove interesting is starting every faction out with militias inside cities, and have the player build up the army they want from the beggining, over the course of 10 turns or so. I don't know how feasible this is though. Just a simple suggestion!
Click to expand...

Thats an excellent suggestion!!!!! I love it.
 
I agree that having a large standing army throughout the game doesn't make to much sense. I don't know if it could be implemented, but I've been thinking of how to make the loss of a large army more damaging, since right now, if you do lose an army, you can still rebuild it without much trouble. Maybe, the game could keep track of what region a unit comes from. If that unit is destroyed in battle, then the public order of that region will suffer a drop. Not only would this force the player to gather troops from other regions, but it would mean that losing a major battle could be potentially diastorous.

Of course, this could be an even bigger problem for the AI, so maybe you could limit it so it only effects the player.

*shrug* I don't know if its possible, but it would add a new level to the game.
 
tornnight said:
Thats an excellent suggestion!!!!! I love it.
Click to expand...

Why, thank you very much, torn! I really appreciate your feedback. (I'm also humbled that a few of my previous suggestions have already made it in this mod.) You should be quite proud of what you've created and implimented, that's for sure.

Keep up the great work, and good luck balancing everything!
 
I think its perfect, I like more of a challenge. After a while though i've been gaining more than enough money so i think if its made easier it should only be made so early game, later in the game it seems to be fine.
 
Hello

I think the difficult economy breaks the AI a little bit, because the AI can not handle the economy like human players. The AI is to stupid. Perhaps you can make the changes in the difficult economy only for the human players without affecting the AI? (For example like in the Deus le Vault Mod with the army upkeep)

Or make two different versions for the economy? So everyone can choose?

Greetings from Germany
Nico
 
I think the only thing that really needs changing is the support cost for the general's body guard unit, I just had four family members come of age and it bankrupt me, and maybe make it cheaper to build religious buildings to encourage the AI to recruit more priests.
 
I like the difficulty the way it is now. It´s hard, that´s right, but that´s the way it should be. Maybe a little balancing for some nations that really are a little hard (Denmark in the early time), but everything else is fine. I personally would like it a little more hard though :shifty:
But that´s my hardcore-gamership :tongue:
 
I think it's not a goo thing to make the game more hard in implementing a hard economic system. I found the factions around me quite less agressive and they have problems to attack with big armies. I think that the upkeep for generals and family members need to be really put down, but that there is a big difference between a upkeep of bodyguards of a fighting general, and a general tha don't fight really often. Is it possible to add familiy memebers and generals fight on foot like henry in the agincourt battle? It's true that like they were important/noble persons, they often fight like knights, but i think that adding a possibility to have them on foot will be nice, and like that, you should choose a bodyguard that will cost less, for a general that doesn't fight often, like knights cost lesss than dismouteled soldiers.
 
The purchase price / upkeep costs are definitely in the ballpark for most units, some need a little tweaking (eg. town militia / spear militia same price / same upkeep even though spear militia get bonus v cav and better morale), but I wouldn't recommend a major change across the board.

I agree that Generals are too expensive to maintain, having the same problem. Not accepting any adoptions or 'Man of the Hour' at all, and I still have too many generals after only about 35 turns. There's no way to 'Dismiss' them, and the 500-700 (or worse, faction leader/heir very expensive) cost can actually be crippling in an economy where even my capital brings in only about 900 a turn.

Only other unit cost change I'd make is for Ships. Their upkeep cost is in the ballpark now, but their purchase price is too low. I really like the purchase price being x3 or x4 upkeep cost that you have for units, should apply to ships also. With those rates, you can maintain the armies you need, but you really sweat every decision to build a new unit, and repairing units is expensive too, which you become very aware of and take into consideration when fighting battles.
 
Overall, Beta 7 is playing better than any mod I've tried (which is nearly all of them by now). If you think the economy is too tight still, I'd recommend increasing trade income a bit (paying 5k for a port which brings in only 50-70 florins a turn, even in a province with resources and 0% corruption is a bit hard to justify - its 70-100 turns to break even on the investment), which can be done in various ways, but would definitely NOT recommend decreasing unit upkeep costs for anything but bodyguards. Farm and Tax income seem appropriate, but I'm seeing little return on any buildings that provide +trade, even in provinces with resources.
 
infernocanuck said:
Also, because of the large upkeep costs (which by themselves isn't all that bad. I almost prefer it, because a battle really means something significant. If your main army gets wiped out, there is no hulking 2 stack army behind you) starting armies are far too large and expensive. Every new camaign I start, I have to dismiss about 70% of my army, and then rebuild slowly. I don't horribly mind this, but it is somethiing that could be lessened by just not giving each faction any more troops then they can reasonably sustain.

What could prove interesting is starting every faction out with militias inside cities, and have the player build up the army they want from the beggining, over the course of 10 turns or so.
Click to expand...
If I may say something, i don't think this is a good ideea...Most human player would be temted to gather all of their militia, from every settlment (because loyalty is high on TLR) and storm AI castles and towns, poorly defended by a couple of milita units...I know I would :)
 
Best way to increase your income at the start of the game is by capturing rebel settlements. I've never had the slightest temptation to disband any starting units (fleets excepted). Starting TLR with most factions, you should be able to maintain your starting forces, but even if you were going into debt to maintain them you'd still be better off using them to expand rather than disbanding them: you're income will go up as you gain territory while your upkeep costs go down as you take casualties. There's no penalty for being in debt.

Anyway, its still pretty easy to milk the diplo system for cash, with the biggest windfalls at the start of the game. Get 6-8 diplos built asap and your early game cash worries disappear.
 
Says I can't vote but thought I'd add my opinion of it being a bit to difficult here to. I mean when you start as silicy (forgive the spelling..faction under rome) after the first turn your -850 and so on then waiting meny turns for markets to build. I think it gets better of course but it is quite hard to start out.. maybe just some more starting cash for them as I haven't tried other factions due to just DL'n the mod.. but just my opinion.
 
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