Result of the last patches of CA in the game

Anibal at portas · May 7, 2009

the result is that the game every time is worse.
A very bad AI from the beginning,to every patch the AI in the battle and campaign map is a worse,more aggressive,more crooked and more stupid and not more good,intelligent and logic,the diplomacy does not exist in these moments in the campaign.
Up to a beginner in computer science make a AI better that CA,this is painful.

S-te-Fan · May 7, 2009

You just don't know how hard it is to create such a game in this less time and one that is sooooooo complex.

Metellus · May 7, 2009

the result is that the game every time is worse.
A very bad AI from the beginning,to every patch the AI in the battle and campaign map is a worse,more aggressive,more crooked and more stupid and not more good,intelligent and logic,the diplomacy does not exist in these moments in the campaign.
Up to a beginner in computer science make a AI better that CA,this is painful.

Anibal,

Perhaps you would care to explain why the game is so terrible after all the patches, instead of creating yet another thread to rant about how everything is so "BAD BAD BAD"...?

Just a thought.

Darth_Revan · May 7, 2009

so why are we defending a company that specializes in those type of games? when they dont live up to what they promised and it gets worse and worse? not our problem with the time limit they have..if im going to pay my 50 for it, it should atleast be playable and live up to what they said it would be..

LinoraN · May 7, 2009

I think it's because people put so much faith into CA and what potential this game has/had...

Remo · May 7, 2009

stefaneke said:
You just don't know how hard it is to create such a game in this less time and one that is sooooooo complex.

Yea, we as players have no idea, yet we easily strip bad games apart, put them back together, making them playable and enjoyable. Modders are the true professional game designers. They are the real reason games go so far, they have the REAL passion for gaming.

Most developers hardly even play their own games(After release), thats why most changes they make in patches are incorrect. I'm not talking CA specifically, but development companies in general.

It's a sad day when some joe schmoe can walk in, sit down at his computer after working a 9-5 job, and literally FIX some big name company's mistakes for them. It's not just sad, it's freaking pathetic. If some random person can fix a very large mistake within the first month of a game being released, while it took a company with allot of employees a few years to create, thats just pure old fashioned lazy. What happened to companies being interested in fixing things instead of rushing the product out the door for a quick buck.

What happened to the passion of game design...

Dieing breed says I, games that were made with just the consumer in mind are dead, make way for games made for purely financial gain. :thumbsdow

Bring on the fanboys, flame me please, but I'm right.

Darth_Revan · May 7, 2009

Remo said:
Yea, we as players have no idea, yet we easily strip bad games apart, put them back together, making them playable and enjoyable. Modders are the true professional game designers. They are the real reason games go so far, they have the REAL passion for gaming.

Most developers hardly even play their own games(After release), thats why most changes they make in patches are incorrect. I'm not talking CA specifically, but development companies in general.

It's a sad day when some joe schmoe can walk in, sit down at his computer after working a 9-5 job, and literally FIX some big name company's mistakes for them. It's not just sad, it's freaking pathetic. If some random person can fix a very large mistake within the first month of a game being released, while it took a company with allot of employees a few years to create, thats just pure old fashioned lazy. What happened to companies being interested in fixing things instead of rushing the product out the door for a quick buck.

What happened to the passion of game design...

Dieing breed says I, games that were made with just the consumer in mind are dead, make way for games made for purely financial gain.

Bring on the fanboys, flame me please, but I'm right.

I agree with you friend :thumbsup2

BigB · May 7, 2009

Metellus said:
Perhaps you would care to explain why the game is so terrible after all the patches, instead of creating yet another thread to rant about how everything is so "BAD BAD BAD"...?

Why bother? Theres already a thread thats 100+ pages long about how the game is bad. Another one that long about Steam. Another one about bugs. I dont think he needs to itemize the suckage.

I still get a kick out of people defending game companies. They make millions and millions from these games. I dont care how complex they are to make. Thats why they make so much money on them. With that kind of money involved they should be very solid high quality software products. There is no excuse.

S-te-Fan · May 7, 2009

The only thing that can really rescue this game for the total war fan are the mods.

@ Remo, seconded. The costumer is the target. Imagine a game that is being developed by not only the developer itself but together with the whole community.

Juggernaut · May 7, 2009

I'm geniunely curious as to what motivates this person to keep playing this game.
I mean, he hated ETW before it was released, he hated after it was released, and he still hates it.
Fine, but why is he then spending his time on something he hates? It doesn't make sense.

rsslcs · May 7, 2009

True. But now whatever CA do, it's a flamwar again. And even worse is that it's mostly unexplained ranting, saying how bad ETW is. At least make your critiscism constructive, so that people can do things to make the game better!

EDIT: 3 posts or so happened whilst writing this lol

Darth_Revan · May 7, 2009

Juggernaut said:
I'm geniunely curious as to what motivates this person to keep playing this game.
I mean, he hated ETW before it was released, he hated after it was released, and he still hates it.
Fine, but why is he then spending his time on something he hates? It doesn't make sense.

perhaps he has faith that it might live up to what he wanted it to be? or maybe just secretly in love with the game like all of us but hate the gamebreakers such as bad AI, and bugs etc. we will never know. :hmm:

NathanielGreene · May 7, 2009

Remo said:
Yea, we as players have no idea, yet we easily strip bad games apart, put them back together, making them playable and enjoyable. Modders are the true professional game designers. They are the real reason games go so far, they have the REAL passion for gaming.

Most developers hardly even play their own games(After release), thats why most changes they make in patches are incorrect. I'm not talking CA specifically, but development companies in general.

It's a sad day when some joe schmoe can walk in, sit down at his computer after working a 9-5 job, and literally FIX some big name company's mistakes for them. It's not just sad, it's freaking pathetic. If some random person can fix a very large mistake within the first month of a game being released, while it took a company with allot of employees a few years to create, thats just pure old fashioned lazy. What happened to companies being interested in fixing things instead of rushing the product out the door for a quick buck.

What happened to the passion of game design...

Dieing breed says I, games that were made with just the consumer in mind are dead, make way for games made for purely financial gain.

Bring on the fanboys, flame me please, but I'm right.

+Rep. Anyone who defends CAs bad business practices should be ashamed. Not only do we have people taking responsibility for their failures(modders) they lied to us about features that were supposed to be included and even had the balls to say everything that they included everything that's supposed to be there.

Truth be told they are STILL developing the game! These patches SHOULD be just bug fixes and we shouldn't have to be waiting for them to add more content and depth to the game simply because they couldn't keep their greed in check long enough to actually finish the game.

They hyped it up, people bought in and now they reap what they sow.

rsslcs · May 7, 2009

NathanielGreene said:
+Rep. Anyone who defends CAs bad business practices should be ashamed. Not only do we have people taking responsibility for their failures(modders) they lied to us about features that were supposed to be included and even had the balls to say everything that they included everything that's supposed to be there.

Truth be told they are STILL developing the game! These patches SHOULD be just bug fixes and we shouldn't have to be waiting for them to add more content and depth to the game simply because they couldn't keep their greed in check long enough to actually finish the game.

They hyped it up, people bought in and now they reap what they sow.

true but hey, people like me aren't trying to defend CA, but trying to actually inform people of what the problems with the game actually are, instead of saying 'oh, the AI's crap, the game crashes.' so that modders OR CA can actually fix the problem. (i'm not specifically aiming at any posters here.)

kelvintyk · May 7, 2009

Remo said:
Yea, we as players have no idea, yet we easily strip bad games apart, put them back together, making them playable and enjoyable. Modders are the true professional game designers. They are the real reason games go so far, they have the REAL passion for gaming.

Most developers hardly even play their own games(After release), thats why most changes they make in patches are incorrect. I'm not talking CA specifically, but development companies in general.

It's a sad day when some joe schmoe can walk in, sit down at his computer after working a 9-5 job, and literally FIX some big name company's mistakes for them. It's not just sad, it's freaking pathetic. If some random person can fix a very large mistake within the first month of a game being released, while it took a company with allot of employees a few years to create, thats just pure old fashioned lazy. What happened to companies being interested in fixing things instead of rushing the product out the door for a quick buck.

What happened to the passion of game design...

Dieing breed says I, games that were made with just the consumer in mind are dead, make way for games made for purely financial gain.

Bring on the fanboys, flame me please, but I'm right.

Well, I'd beg to differ, stardocks, producer of demigod recently have just the consumers in mind. They didn't put in place anti-piracy systems to piss us consumers off and even had offers for consumers who buy retail copies getting a 50% voucher off the next demigod they buy, maybe for a friend or something. Giving 50% off and putting aside major anti-piracy systems are hardly anywhere to be found now, I'd say stardocks is still the one in a million nowadays for us gamers. I must say I'm very satisfied with demigod (they work on patches like CA as well, and demigod is nearly bug-free except the online), a way different experience ETW first gave me. Although I must say up till now ETW has improved quite a bit form the patches.

NathanielGreene · May 7, 2009

rsslcs said:
true but hey, people like me aren't trying to defend CA, but trying to actually inform people of what the problems with the game actually are, instead of saying 'oh, the AI's crap, the game crashes.' so that modders OR CA can actually fix the problem. (i'm not specifically aiming at any posters here.)

The problem is though that CA seems to have lowered their standard of quality. Oh CA has had a whirlwind of good feedback but that doesn't stop me from questioning their horrible business practices and lying to their loyal fanbase.

Look at MTW2...that game would be a joke if it wasnt for modders. I think the people that made TATW should all run CA now because they could probably do a better job.

Juggernaut · May 7, 2009

Creating a mod of a existing game in your free time and creating a game from scratch as a job is a completely different thing. It wouldn't be simple like that.

Htakin · May 7, 2009

How I pine for the days when games were released in complete working order.

Anyone remember Leisure Suit Larry in the Lounge of the Lone Lizards needing a patch? Or Monkey Island?

But I digress. I'll see what the patch has done to my game when I log in tonight.

NathanielGreene · May 7, 2009

Juggernaut said:
Creating a mod of a existing game in your free time and creating a game from scratch as a job is a completely different thing. It wouldn't be simple like that.

You're obviously missing the point here. First of all modding does take alot of work. To make something like TATW it requires a decent sized team with some knowledge of coding and a good amount of time. The point is MTW2 would barely have been enjoyable in its released form so it was up to the modders to make better AI, more content, historical accuracy etc etc etc.

Look at Starcraft, that game has been out for 11 years and thousands of people still play it online regularly. Why is Blizzard so successful? Because they have a standard of quality they have not and will not ever lower! They say even on their website they will take as much time as neccessary to make sure a game is balanced and polished before release.

Now with ETW we have a bare amount of content, promised features that weren't included, massive amounts of bugs, terrible AI, and we were lied to. Should we just shutup and take it? Hell no, CA needs to know on a massive level what a failure this release was. I payed good money for this game and I expect a finished product.

If I knew CA was going to release the game like this I never would've bought it in the first place.

Graphic · May 7, 2009

Htakin said:
How I pine for the days when games were released in complete working order.

Anyone remember Leisure Suit Larry in the Lounge of the Lone Lizards needing a patch? Or Monkey Island?

"Remember when games like Asteroids and Pac-Man had no major bugs, then you look at something like Grand Theft Auto IV. What a disgrace!"

:laughter:

Sorry but I had to. ETW is a buggy-ass game, even by 2009 standards, but I don't think it's really fair to compare such a big and complex game to games that amount to sprites and dialogue .wav files.

All games are more buggy these days than they used to be, and it's not just a sudden onset of developer laziness, it's that today's games are at least half a dozen gigs in size (all the way up to ETW level which IIRC is 12 gigs), take 4 years and millions of dollars to develop. After all of that, you can test them in house for a decade and still not bump into 90% of the bugs, not until the game is run on thousands and thousands of different computer hardware and software configurations. Today's PC gamers do often get used like beta testers, but it's not just because devs are buttholes :yes:

, IMO most do all they can in-house, then there's seriously no other choice besides releasing it...except maybe a public beta, which I imagine publishers don't like too much (giving everyone the full game for up to months).

ETW may be pass the threshold for acceptable bugginess, but it is a gigantic 12gb game that's been in development for 4 years, so I'm still sympathetic on a certain level. The reality of modern game development may really suck bigtime, but it's just a fact of life these days.

Grislok · May 7, 2009

Every day a new thread like this.......every day my soul a little diminshed.

Juggernaut · May 7, 2009

NathanielGreene said:
You're obviously missing the point here. First of all modding does take alot of work. To make something like TATW it requires a decent sized team with some knowledge of coding and a good amount of time.

Yes, but making something completely from a scratch is different. A mod already has a foundation to make something on.

There many things that differs from making a mod and making a game.
For example, mods have no deadlines. They can take as much time as they want to. But retail games have a deadline which they have to stick to.

Then theres the fact that making a retail game is a job:they have to work everyday, unlike in a mod where they just have to work on their spair time.

Just making a mod team to work on a retail game wouldn't work:I'm part of a mod team(although nothing technical) so I think I know what I'm talking about.

The point is MTW2 would barely have been enjoyable in its released form so it was up to the modders to make better AI, more content, historical accuracy etc etc etc.

Oh, I agree completely M2TW would have been a total joke if there's no mods. That's why I want CA to release a mod tool, or at least give hint as to how to edit those esf files ASAP.

Now with ETW we have a bare amount of content, promised features that weren't included, massive amounts of bugs, terrible AI, and we were lied to. Should we just shutup and take it? Hell no, CA needs to know on a massive level what a failure this release was. I payed good money for this game and I expect a finished product.

If I knew CA was going to release the game like this I never would've bought it in the first place.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was the publisher(SEGA), who decides when the game get's released, not the developer(CA). AFAIK The only thing the developer can do is tell the publisher when they think the game is ready to be released, and the publisher has no obligation to listen to that. You might be attacking the wrong target here.

Metellus · May 7, 2009

I was merely suggesting that the OP provide some actual details of bugs etc. from his own gameplay experience rather than contributing to the global whine-level.

For myself I enjoyed M2TW even before mods were released, although granted the mods definitely made it better. But its a game after all. If you don't want to spend your $$$ on it, don't. But there are plenty of people who will buy it, just for the opportunity to tear it down.

Its amazing how similar the rants are for each iteration of the Total War games. Sorry folks but it really is that simple: don't like it, don't buy it.

Turbo · May 7, 2009

stefaneke said:
You just don't know how hard it is to create such a game in this less time and one that is sooooooo complex.

Thats true but then again none of us are doing this for a living, hyping marketing, overpromising customers, then selling a product that was known to be defective. In other types of employment you would either be in prison or fired.

Juggernaut said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was the publisher(SEGA), who decides when the game get's released, not the developer(CA). AFAIK The only thing the developer can do is tell the publisher when they think the game is ready to be released, and the publisher has no obligation to listen to that. You might be attacking the wrong target here.

The publisher can not "force" release of a product without the developer's consent. Can they level pressure? Absolutely, but in the end it is the developer's call as to whether or not to bend to the pressure.

Graphic · May 7, 2009

Turbo said:
The publisher can not "force" release of a product without the developer's consent. Can they level pressure? Absolutely, but in the end it is the developer's call as to whether or not to bend to the pressure.

Uhh...when the publisher OWNS the developer, yes, they can force them to release the game.

Ubisoft HQ: Release Tom Clancy Ghost Recon Rainbow 6 Reno 7, it's been in development for 8 years.

Ubisoft Montreal: ....no.

Ubisoft HQ: Well....ok. :whistling

Ightenhill · May 7, 2009

to be fair if i was a publisher who had given a bunch of devs plenty of time and a good budget to produce a game .. I would be pretty peeved as well if they failed to deliver.. CA simply failed to deliver and the blame stops there..

pandoursbox · May 7, 2009

What the hell is wrong with all you naysayers? Sure the game was a little buggy, all games are. I thougt vanilla, first release Empire was awesome. Not medieval 2 awesome, but awesome nonetheless, esp the naval battles. I've only experienced better things with the patches (except the darthmod zero tax thing).

Why is there so much vitriol? You go start a software company.

NathanielGreene · May 7, 2009

pandoursbox said:
What the hell is wrong with all you naysayers? Sure the game was a little buggy, all games are. I thougt vanilla, first release Empire was awesome. Not medieval 2 awesome, but awesome nonetheless, esp the naval battles. I've only experienced better things with the patches (except the darthmod zero tax thing).

Why is there so much vitriol? You go start a software company.

What the hell is wrong with all you CA fanboys? A little buggy? Are you :wub:

*ng kidding? The game has been unplayable for a good number of people and even after patches many are still experiencing crashes and bugs including myself, and that makes for quite the frusturating experience when I payed $50 for this game.

This has to be one of the buggiest, crash prone games I've ever played.

TheBlobThing · May 7, 2009

Of course it's a shame that a lot of people have crashes but I'm not going to let that diminish the enjoyment I get out of this game.

pandoursbox said:
What the hell is wrong with all you naysayers? Sure the game was a little buggy, all games are. I thougt vanilla, first release Empire was awesome. Not medieval 2 awesome, but awesome nonetheless, esp the naval battles. I've only experienced better things with the patches (except the darthmod zero tax thing).

Agreed, except that M2 vanilla was even more buggy at release.

Pink Beard · May 7, 2009

TheBlobThing said:
Agreed, except that M2 vanilla was even more buggy at release.

SO, just because M2 sucked at release it's OK to release another sucking game? ...

Result of the last patches of CA in the game

Result of the last patches of CA in the game

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He should've armed himself.

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May the Force be with you.

He should've armed himself.

Greed, for lack of a better word, is good.

You can't handle the truth!

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I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse.

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Greed, for lack of a better word, is good.

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Go ahead, make my day.

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Here's looking at you, kid!

I'll be back!

May the Force be with you.

My precious.

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