As I'm reading the Bible I can't help but notice some major plot holes in it. Major ones in fact, and since it's one of the best selling books I can't help myself not to point some of them out.

First is the concept of Satan. If god is all knowing and all powerful and nothing is able to impose his will how does Satan exist? You'd think he could get rid of Satan pretty easily since he created the universe and Satan is part of the universe, don't you. What's he waiting for exactly?

Second is dinosaurs. Christians claim that the year is 7,000 years old right? But how come scientists have discovered dinosaur bones that date back millions of years? How do you Christians explain that? I'm having some major problems wrapping my head around that my self.

Anyways, That's just what I think. Feel free to post more Bible plot holes of your own.

Except of course that the Bible isn't a book, in the sense that Catcher in the Rye or Fight Club is a book. It's a Codex, or a collection of writings believed to be inspired or that elucidate moral or theological points, therefore the notion that there exists plot holes tends to be inaccurate at best, since there really exists no plot. However, the Books of Kings and Chronicles seem to draw from the Royal Histories, and many of the events they describe, for example, the Neo-Assyrian Conquest of the Northern Kingdom of Israel, or Sennacherib's campaign against Egypt and Judah, seem to have a relatively accurate historicity.

Maybe so but the stories they tell have some serious plot holes that don't seem to be addressed by many people. Why should I base my life around poor story telling? Would you want your kids raised thinking mediocrity is acceptable?

Paul the Octopus said:

Second is dinosaurs. Christians claim that the year is 7,000 years old right? But how come scientists have discovered dinosaur bones that date back millions of years? How do you Christians explain that? I'm having some major problems wrapping my head around that my self.

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Wait, how is this a "bible plot hole"?

CamilleBonparte said:

Wait, how is this a "bible plot hole"?

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Because it's historically inaccurate. Maybe that was a better word for it, but it obviously doesn't make very much sense.

And here is another one. The Leviathan. How come we don't see those swimming around?

Paul the Octopus said:

First is the concept of Satan. If god is all knowing and all powerful and nothing is able to impose his will how does Satan exist? You'd think he could get rid of Satan pretty easily since he created the universe and Satan is part of the universe, don't you. What's he waiting for exactly?

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There is actually no reference to Satan or hell in any of the gospels of the new testament. One of the gospels refers to an underworld and the nashing of teeth, but satan and hell were all later additions to dogma that had no basis in the bible. Likewise purgatory - which was invented in the 14th century to give faithful soldiers who died without the last rites a way into heaven - was recently revoked by the current pope.

Paul the Octopus said:

Because it's historically inaccurate.

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You mean people in the Bronze Age didn't know how to radiometrically date the Earth's lifetime, or knew that there were giant reptiles that roamed the world millions of years before?
Astounding. Do tell.

Khassaki said:

Likewise purgatory - which was invented in the 14th century to give faithful soldiers who died without the last rites a way into heaven - was recently revoked by the current pope.

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Purgatory was part of Christianity quite a bit before the 14th century. And it was never revoked as part of Catholic dogma. Limbo, yes, but that's an entirely different thing.

We are our own satan. God made us so we can know right from wrong, and when we opt to do wrong we try to put ourselves before God and live without Him. This is the sin of Lucifer, and whenever Satan is mentioned in the bible, it's usually figuratively in that sense, for example the Book of Job.

The second "plothole" is more of a problem with New Earth Intelligent Deisgn, but most Christians and Thelogians believe in Theistic Evolution. So it's not really a problem.

Paul the Octopus said:

And here is another one. The Leviathan. How come we don't see those swimming around?

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Okay look.

You need to understand that the bible is a question of 66(73 if you like apocrpytha like I do!) books. Some of them are meant to be historical records (1 and 2 Macabees for example). Some are meant to be wisdom (Proverbs, Wisdom, Wisdom of Sirach). Some are meant to be used to liturgy (Psalms). Some are Poetic, like Job.

How do we know Job is a poem? Well because we know how Hebrew Poetry worked. Even though Hebrew is not a very "beautiful" language (As Saint Jerome would attest ) it has a very unique style of poetry. I've heard it described as each verse starting with each letter of the alphabet (A is for A, B is for B, etc. etc.)

Now when something is a poem you're meant to look into the deeper context. You're not supposed to read a poem and think "Hm, God goes around beating up crocodiles, who knew?"

Also remember that the bible is the most studied and critiqued collection in the past 2,000 years. You probably won't be able to spot inacuracies that easily.

Once again I don't blame you for mistaking every book in the bible as 100% literal. For some reason most bibles do not have adequite introductions and footnotes, so I suggest using a study bible.


As for limbo, let's put that aside (drumroll, because when I was first taught about limbo it said that limbo was a verb that meant to put aside. Na mean? Haha funny right)

Paul the Octopus said:

Maybe so but the stories they tell have some serious plot holes that don't seem to be addressed by many people. Why should I base my life around poor story telling? Would you want your kids raised thinking mediocrity is acceptable?

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Others have already addressed this but I'll add to it.

You're acting like the Bible should be literarily (word?) and/or historically consistent compared to other literary works or academic histories. That's a terrible comparison to assume. The Bible is a collection of books (the Protestant Bible has 66 books while the Catholic Bible has 73 [I think]) written over thousands of years, written by an untold number of individuals, and none of them were intended to have literary or historical consistency to subsequent books (in the Bible), except for New Testament books, perhaps.

So, saying there are "plot holes" is ridiculous since there was never any sort of plot intended. I remember explaining this to someone else in another thread. The Million Dollar Prons does a very good job of explaining some differences between the different books in the Bible when referring to poetry. Is it really a surprise that a book (made of dozens of books) written over thousands of years has historical inaccuracies? No. Is it really a surprise that a collection of books written by an untold number of authors will have inconsistencies (even though they weren't written to be consistent) from book to book? No.

Now, for some reason you find all of this surprising, and maybe just need to be educated...or you don't and simply believe these points are an opportunity to undermine or bash Christianity.

well the bible is really wierd and have alot of holes as its fictional but you actually read even more fictional book then the bible. you dont read the bible you read the the new testamens that was written by christian fanatics. and is all about god,satan,end of the world. its more like a fantasy book. it has no reality in it at all.

while the bible has fictional chapters too .it has also chapters that are historical . about the ancient israel tribes,the wars between them,diplomacy between kingdooms,all the conquests of the kingdom of david and solomon. so the bible is not fully fictional.

Lord Rahl said:

Others have already addressed this but I'll add to it.

You're acting like the Bible should be literarily (word?) and/or historically consistent compared to other literary works or academic histories. That's a terrible comparison to assume. The Bible is a collection of books (the Protestant Bible has 66 books while the Catholic Bible has 73 [I think]) written over thousands of years, written by an untold number of individuals, and none of them were intended to have literary or historical consistency to subsequent books (in the Bible), except for New Testament books, perhaps.

So, saying there are "plot holes" is ridiculous since there was never any sort of plot intended. I remember explaining this to someone else in another thread. The Million Dollar Prons does a very good job of explaining some differences between the different books in the Bible when referring to poetry. Is it really a surprise that a book (made of dozens of books) written over thousands of years has historical inaccuracies? No. Is it really a surprise that a collection of books written by an untold number of authors will have inconsistencies (even though they weren't written to be consistent) from book to book? No.

Now, for some reason you find all of this surprising, and maybe just need to be educated...or you don't and simply believe these points are an opportunity to undermine or bash Christianity.

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Well you see I was always told the Bible was supposed to be taken literally and an accurate description of history.

So was I. Your point?

Lord Rahl said:

So was I. Your point?

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What makes them wrong and you correct?

Now you're asking questions of spirituality or theology. That's a totally different discussion than Bible "plot holes" (unless you're changing your focus to something that can actually be discussed rather than taught.

Lord Rahl said:

Now you're asking questions of spirituality or theology. That's a totally different discussion than Bible "plot holes" (unless you're changing your focus to something that can actually be discussed rather than taught.

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I have to applaud your effort to dodge the question but I still would like my question answered. What makes your opinion more valid than there's? After all you said many people have interpreted the Bible differently.

Well, if you insist on changing the basis of the thread's discussion then I will oblige.

What makes them wrong and you correct?

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I wouldn't say that I'm necessarily "right" or that they're necessarily "wrong". I will say that if someone wants to assert the Bible as being a complete literal truth then they are wrong. This clashes with the idea of a literal interpretation of the Bible as well. So, if we're arguing historical accuracy or the necessity for literal interpretation of the Bible for "true" Christianity then I will say that I'm right. This does not, however, mean that I am "right" when it comes to spirituality. Spirituality is a personal belief and one that is much more of an ambiguous matter to find the "truth" (if there is one).

This does not have much to do with "plot holes" or Bible interpretation, however, as the discussion deals with literary and historical understanding of the Bible, not spirituality and/or theology, which is what you asked me.

Lord Rahl said:

Well, if you insist on changing the basis of the thread's discussion then I will oblige.




I wouldn't say that I'm necessarily "right" or that they're necessarily "wrong". I will say that if someone wants to assert the Bible as being a complete literal truth then they are wrong. This clashes with the idea of a literal interpretation of the Bible as well. So, if we're arguing historical accuracy or the necessity for literal interpretation of the Bible for "true" Christianity then I will say that I'm right. This does not, however, mean that I am "right" when it comes to spirituality. Spirituality is a personal belief and one that is much more of an ambiguous matter to find the "truth" (if there is one).

This does not have much to do with "plot holes" or Bible interpretation, however, as the discussion deals with literary and historical understanding of the Bible, not spirituality and/or theology, which is what you asked me.

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But that doesn't prove that Satan doesn't exist. Where in the New Testament does it specifically say that there is no devil?

What does that have to do with what I just explained? I never said Satan doesn't exist for a fact. I don't believe it but I'm not claiming that belief to be the spiritual truth. I'm not even making the assumption of a non-existent Satan in this discussion.

Like I said, if you want to talk about supposed Bible plot holes through historical inaccuracies then you need to better understand the context of the Bible as a collection of many books (and all that brings with it). If you want to talk about Satan in the Christian belief then you're discussing theology. That's not what I'm arguing.

Paul the Octopus said:

Second is dinosaurs. Christians claim that the year is 7,000 years old right? But how come scientists have discovered dinosaur bones that date back millions of years? How do you Christians explain that? I'm having some major problems wrapping my head around that my self.

Anyways, That's just what I think. Feel free to post more Bible plot holes of your own.

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Not really sure what this has to do with anything. The bible doesn't mention butterflies either. Is that now a major plot hole? If you want to talk about creationism, well I believe there is a thread on that somewhere around here. Short version is, not everything in the bible is supposed to be taken as literal truth. Genesis is one of these, but some people insist on saying it is literal, maybe because they feel threatened by science for whatever reason. As for Satan, I have always liked CS Lewis's explanation (though I don't think he addresses scriptural basis).

Paul the Octopus said:

First is the concept of Satan. If god is all knowing and all powerful and nothing is able to impose his will how does Satan exist? You'd think he could get rid of Satan pretty easily since he created the universe and Satan is part of the universe, don't you. What's he waiting for exactly?

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Well I was wondering the same thing.Maybe he decided to cut him some slack,because he was his top angel.And then Adam and Eve disobeyed his order not to eat from particular tree.And then he casted them out of heaven maybe he figured,well maybe I should let Lucifer to have his authority over people.They were to stupid and too gullible and believed the talking snake.And the the free will was given.And people learned to do whatever they want.Then 10 commandments were given to protect people from evil and keep then on the right path.And about waiting, If I remember right he's waiting the end of days then he will cast him in the fire of lake.I think that goes something like that.

Paul the Octopus said:

First is the concept of Satan. If god is all knowing and all powerful and nothing is able to impose his will how does Satan exist? You'd think he could get rid of Satan pretty easily since he created the universe and Satan is part of the universe, don't you.

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How then would the moral person be distinguishable from the not?

Second is dinosaurs. Christians claim that the year is 7,000 years old right?

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Only the Creationists.

Khassaki said:

There is actually no reference to Satan or hell in any of the gospels of the new testament.

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Good one

" Second is dinosaurs. Christians claim that the year is 7,000 years old right? But how come scientists have discovered dinosaur bones that date back millions of years? How do you Christians explain that? I'm having some major problems wrapping my head around that my self. "

Paul the Octopus,

Can I answer the second question first? Helm recently gave us links to many scientists as well as findings that throw out what we think regarding the life and times of dinosaurs so that is but one thing. The other is that since God at creation made everything mature, an up and running planet as well as the stars in the universe, then nothing was left out meaning that things do appear much older than creation.

Consider that when God did create anything it was no great thing for Him to create it at any age He wanted so when we measure such things as the stars what we see is what and why they were created to the age they were subject to adding our time from all creation. Some may call that silly but it is not as silly as what they think to believe that being exactly why they need a Saviour.

Why was this so? Well my understanding of the Gospel from even before its beginnings at the fall of man and all creation is that opposition to God's Lamb be complete in every sense thus denying mankind of finding reasons for another way to be saved. In other words God covered every angle where argument might begin. I think we can see that the dinosaurs have become such an argument.

So when we now look to Satan or Diablos we see that he is also a creation who is central to the plan ordained from before the worlds were made, him established as the accuser in legal terms before the throne of Almighty God. At what point in the heavens he rebelled I can't answer but we are told there was warfare in the heavens. Obviously this was not warfare as we know it but it is my understanding that it may well have had to do with the Gospel plans of the Godhead.

At the fall of man Diablos through or as the serpent was seen to establish in the mind of man and woman that God did not mean the things that He said quite contrary to His righteousness and man fell for it hook, line and sinker, just as man still does today. So his contribution to the Gospel is seen as the ultimate in opposition which must be if what was ordained to happen did happen, which we know of course did.

Whatever the real answers are Diablos is behind what man has become although he is never in most of Scripture personally involved, rather the power that he has as well as the spirits under his control. He can't be because we do know that he is personally now being held in the pit until the day he is to be released to cause more confusion, another delusion on mankind. It is when scientists find the bones of man alongside the bones of dinosaurs we have to ask where then is this record in time they impose on us and our children.

I'll let Star Trek explain things: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I3qJvTW0fk#t=7m3s

MaximiIian said:

Purgatory was part of Christianity quite a bit before the 14th century. And it was never revoked as part of Catholic dogma. Limbo, yes, but that's an entirely different thing.

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Whatever, my point is that the church re-writes its dogma on a regular basis, and that none of the dogma comes from the bible, its all created by the church hierarchy for their own ends.

Paul the Octopus said:

Second is dinosaurs. Christians claim that the year is 7,000 years old right? But how come scientists have discovered dinosaur bones that date back millions of years? How do you Christians explain that? I'm having some major problems wrapping my head around that my self.

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The christians who believe in genesis 100% w/o flaw believe carbon dating is a bunch of crap and that all those prehistoric animals were wiped in the The Flood. at least, many of those christians give me that explanation-it's pretty bad, isn't it?

Khassaki said:

Whatever, my point is that the church re-writes its dogma on a regular basis, and that none of the dogma comes from the bible, its all created by the church hierarchy for their own ends.

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If we exclude Vatican II of 1950s which can suit this description, kindly provide any example from church history.

many christians say that dinasours are planted by the devil to trick you..

and as for the satan thingy.. most christian denominations are kept ignorant enough to not question that

If we exclude Vatican II of 1950s which can suit this description, kindly provide any example from church history.

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are you serious???

lets start with the first one

council of nicae.. before hand many prominent christians supported the idea that jesus was a man, that jesus was a prophet.. or that jesus was only god .. or that jesus was only the son of god... then the council combined it all

and also.. the whole indulgences thingy... how they stopped selling them

honestly.. go look at the thousands of bulls and church orders in the last thousand years...

catholic church is hardly the church it began as

How then would the moral person be distinguishable from the not?

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what.. god doesnt know?

Khassaki said:

There is actually no reference to Satan or hell in any of the gospels of the new testament.

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Three of the four Gospels reference Satan. Where do you people come up with this bollocks? Hell is pretty obviously a mix of European pagan(particularly Northern and Western European) influence with the Jewish and Christian idea of the afterlife for 'sinners'.

I always thought this was a biggy...

If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels. And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power." --- Mark 8:31 - 9:1, parallel passage in Matt 16:28 and Lk 9:27


On an interesting note, during the middle ages the Wandering Jew was invented to account for what is so clearly a false prophecy.

Paul the Octopus said:

What makes them wrong and you correct?

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Because whoever told you that didn't know much about the bible, when it was written, or why it was written. The reason they're wrong is the same reason why I'd be wrong if I told you that Atlas Shrugged was a historical account that covered real events in the 1950s.

Lord Hidetora said:

council of nicae.. before hand many prominent christians supported the idea that jesus was a man, that jesus was a prophet.. or that jesus was only god .. or that jesus was only the son of god... then the council combined it all

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That's not what happened. The orthodox view was, and always has been, that Jesus was 100% Man and 100% God. the heresies believed that he was either all man (arianism) or all divine and no man (metaphysitie), but that was never the belief of the church.

Lord Hidetora said:

and also.. the whole indulgences thingy... how they stopped selling them

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The Catholic Church has never stopped their policy on Indulgences. It's just better explained now than it was in the 1500s. And, as far as I know, the "selling" of indulgences has never been a Dogma.