I would like to know,if there will be any historical great person in mod,like william wallace was,or saladin,jean of arc,,....
I think all those nations had at least one great person,which was admired because of his battle,leader or religious capabilities.

it is possible to do something like that - but only for characters that are alive at the time mod starts. we are not sure yet

Why only at that time? In kingdoms:britania william wallace apperats at 20 - 30 turn.

Yeah there must be historical heroes not only when the campaign starts. Maybe they can spawn with armies when there is an event in which they had took part.

saneel said:

Why only at that time? In kingdoms:britania william wallace apperats at 20 - 30 turn.

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That faction doesnt exist in Tsardoms.

I know that,I just gave an example

For the Serbian faction it will be Tsar Dushan and Milos Obilic among others.

You mean Kobilic,that was his real surname,but the later change it,because they thought it was a shame for a national hero to have such a surname.

well lets keep all options open for now.

Personally,I would like to see Vlad Tepes the Impaler as the great Wallachian leader or special character for this faction!

Well, in my opinion Milos Obilic is a MUST!!!

I mean he was quite an important figure at that time. In a previous discussion we already meantioned that he first created the Order of the Dragon with the aim to kill the turkish sultan (which was later adapted by Sigismund). Which he also achieved in the Kosovo Polje forfitting his life.

Mircea cel Bătrîn Duke of Wallachia,Vlad III Ţepeş, Duke of Wallachia,Ştefan cel Mare Duke of Moldavia,Tzar Stefan Dušan,Tzar Lazar(Tzar Lazar Hrebeljanović),John II Komnenos..

Yes this is a very good idea, you should try to implement something like this, it should be fantastic

For Bosnia this would be Tvrko I Kotromanic at least

I agree about Tvrtko I.

Katarina Kotromanic was the last Bosnian queen, the wife of king Tomasevic. She died in Rome somwhere in the 16. century. Maybe it could be possible to mention the queen's death in the game. Today every year Bosnians visit her grafe at the date of her death and there is a special day that we remember her in Kraljeva Sutjeska. For the Bosnians she is the bravest woman because she never was able to see her children but instead of that she was strong and a real noble woman. She actually died twenty or thirty years after the fall of the Bosnian lands to the Turks.

Vlatko Vukovic. Defeated the Turks when they invaded Hum,and held the left flank in Battle for Kosovo polje. The Turks couldnt broke his line.

Vlatko Vukovic was a Bosnian duke (actually Hum, part of the Bosnian Empire) who was fighting as a representative of Bosnia with the Serbs against the invading Turks in kosovo battle.

visocicaguy said:

Vlatko Vukovic was a Bosnian duke (actually Hum, part of the Bosnian Empire) who was fighting as a representative of Bosnia with the Serbs against the invading Turks in kosovo battle.

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Was Vlatko Vukicic a Serb from Hum? Because i know that there lived some Serbs in Hum. If we may believe Serbs historians, only in Hum there were some orthodox churches. Was Vlatko a Orthodox christian Serb or a Bosnian?

Vlatko Vukovic was a Bosnian duke. He was a krstjanin by religion. He fought against the invading Turks at the right flank and was among the most successful leaders in that battle.

visocicaguy said:

Vlatko Vukovic was a Bosnian duke. He was a krstjanin by religion. He fought against the invading Turks at the right flank and was among the most successful leaders in that battle.

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Yeah i know that. great... I think we summed the 3 most heroic Bosnians (Bosnjans) from the middle ages. I hope they will use this information.

So we can sum up the Bosnian representatives:

King Tvrtko I Kotromanic
Queen Katarina Kosaca
Duke Vlatko Vukovic

visocicaguy said:

So we can sum up the Bosnian representatives:

King Tvrtko I Kotromanic
Queen Katarina Kosaca
Duke Vlatko Vukovic

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That's it I think. I hope that it would be possible to rebuild the kingdom with Katarina after the Turkish invasion or domething. It is possible in other Medieval games i heard... Should be great. By the way; do you know some monks from that time by name?

Bosnian_King said:

Was Vlatko Vukicic a Serb from Hum? Because i know that there lived some Serbs in Hum. If we may believe Serbs historians, only in Hum there were some orthodox churches. Was Vlatko a Orthodox christian Serb or a Bosnian?

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Vlatko Vukovic Kosaca was Vojvoda of Hum or Herzegovina. He was the son of Serb noblemen Vuk Kosaca. Vuk Kosaca was the founder of the Kosaca dinasty. He fought in Czar Dushan's army and became well known officer. His fighting prowess was proven in the battle against the Byzantines around Serres and Thesaloniki. He had two sons, Vlatko and Hran Vukovic.
Vlatko became vojvoda and governed area around today's Herzegovina.

He governed the province of Hum (Herzegovina), which was part of the Kingdom of Bosnia. Bosnia were enjoying a period of peace and prosperity under King Tvrtko Kotromanić, but the Turkish threat was building to the east, threatening neighboring Serbia. On August 27, 1388, Vojvoda Vlatko defeated Ottoman raiding party (some 18,000 strong) that invaded Hum (Battle of Bileca 1388:Serbian-Bosnian heavy cavalry is typically credited with winning the battle as they broke the Ottoman ranks and pursue the retreating enemy. It has been cited that "Ottoman leader Shain barely managed to save himself with the small band of his soldiers" (V. Corovic, "Historija Bosne" p.325, "History of Bosnia).

In 1389 he commanded a Bosnian army that fought alongside Serbian Prince Lazar Hrebeljanović at the Battle of Kosovo Polje against the Ottomans. Vuković is one of the few leaders on the Serbian side who survived the battle.

He died in 1392 and was buried near Stolac. He is from Serbian Noble family and is still considered to be one of the most important Serbian noblemen.

Vlatko was Bosnjan,in Bosnia in that times there was no Serbs. And even if there were orhodox, they called themselves Bosnjani.

He was from the Serbian Kosaca family that was the noble family. They ruled Hum or Herzegovina and that is fact of history.
And if some Krstjani were present in Bosnia, they were not known as Bosnjani. The national-identity term came later.
The region of Hum where Kosaca family ruled was Orthodox and was Serb.
According to the Ragusan sources this is how they say about Hum:

This regie of Huma and Hotca belong to noble rule of house of Kosaca. For they are of Serb rule and come to relation of Vlastimirovic.

And House of Kosača was a medieval Orthodox Serb Bosnian-Herzegovinian family that ruled over Hum (Herzegovina).

So, why do you deny historical facts and immediately go into politics.
And I am not going to discuss politics with you.


CHEERS

And wikkipedia is very credibile source,dr. Imamovic isnt? hahaha LOL
I wont even read what you posted from wikipedia,because every piece of can write there and pretend to be some profesor or scienties. Even i can write there now that Osama bin Laden is my unce and he is hidding in my room.
Vlatko was a bosnian general,he fought side by side with the serbs few times,but that doesnt make him serbian.

I will start now.With 1230 period.Hilarion main priest of first Spc, you should know about him.Like the fact you should know about first division of Serbian church and the fact there were no Serb or Orthodox ear in Hum region.In seven grand zupa's of Serbia.You obviously dont know your own history.What does Hilarion says about Hum?


I have spend over 20 years amongst unbelievers in Hum, and i havent got any bir or Vrhovina.Money used at that time.If the right hand man of Rastko who him personally send to bring Orthodoxy in Hum, would say this around 1240, and Dragutin Uros would proclaim paghans in Hum.

2+2=5, If we count you


Vuk Hranic

Porodica Hranic je jedna od najuglednih familija, prije dolaska Turaka

Familija je osnovana od Vuka.Vuk Hranic je rodjen u Poljskoj.U mladosti je doselio u Rudine, Gatacka nahija , Hercegovina
Pokazao se kao sposoban covjek
Sin mu je Vlatko Hranic
Postavljen za kneza od Tvrtka
1386/1387 postavljen za vojskovodu od Tvrtka
Veoma vjest i sposoban politicar i covjek
Tvrtko je veoma cjenio doticnu osobu
1389/1390 je postao vladar Humske zemlje, uz blagoslov tada vec umiruceg Tvrtka
Umro kao vladar Humskijeh zemalja 1392/1393
Imao tri sina
Sinovi su mu se zvali:Vuk, Vukac i Sandalj
Najstariji sin Sandalj je postao novi gospodar Huma
Sandalj Hranic je imao velike ambicije, za Bosnu, i za njegov Hum
Sandalj Hranic je rodjen u Kosarima(Zahum)
Neki su ga plemici zvali Kosaric, a neki Kosacic
Narod ga je zvao Kosaca, skraceno
Vladao je iz Gatacke nahije, tvrdjave Kljuc



=



Smrt Sandalja Hranica


Sandalj Hranic godine 1429 postavlja Radoslava Pavlovica, kao herecegovackog namjesnika.Godinu, dana kasnije Radoslav prekida odnose sa Sandaljem, i prestaje da bude pokoran

Sandalj je zatrazio pomoc od Bosanskog Sandzakbega Ishak bega, koji mu je bio u susjedstvu i napao je Radoslava, te natjerao ga u bijeg, te osvojio njegovu zemlju, citaj Travunju.

Hercegovacki vladar Sandalj, u zelji da postane samostalni kralj i da uspostavi kraljevsku stolicu, izgradio je jednu tvrdjavu u mjestu Koziji Rog, i nazvao je Stolac.Spomenuta tvrdjava se i danas zove Stolac.Nakon toga, da bi dobio naslov kralja, Sandalj se uputio ka Ugarskom kralju Sigismundu.Bosanski kralj Tvrtko, razmisljao je da ubije Sandalja, pa je cekao zgodnu priliku.Ovog puta, da bi ga uklonio, poslao je svoje ljude da ga slijede.I bas, dok je Sandalj prelazio preko rijeke Save, ti su ga ljudi pristigli i ubili 1435/1436 godine.Tom mjestu ostao je naziv Hercegov Stol, pa se i danas tako zove.To se mjesto nalazi u blizini Svinjareva, i usce rijeke Vrbasa u rijeku Savu


Mjesto Svinjarevo, kasnije Bosanski Svinjar, je nakon dolaska Srbocetnika poslije 1918, preimenovano u Srbac, tako ako neki ne znaju





Vlatko Vukovic was from Hum region.This region was formaly anexed by Tvrtko after death of Tzar Dusan in 1355, but since 1330, there is absolutely zero Serb influence Politically , historically and culturally there.This was the region that was connected to Bosnia by Vicelord and later Ban Stjepan Kotromanic 1318-1353 after he came to throne.First he took region of Dlamoc and Livno, from Nelipac in Croatia and then he united Bosnia with Hum


This is the map of Bosnia under his reign by the way


I have bigger map of Bosnia, that gives the same period.

Jackz,

You should join the team as a historian. We could use a Bosnian historian in the team. There is not one Bosnian there. Ask them if you can join. You studied history and you created the one and only Bosnian history forum. I think they should be happy to have you in their ream. Ask them. They still are searching for people.

The Noble Lord said:

He was from the Serbian Kosaca family that was the noble family. They ruled Hum or Herzegovina and that is fact of history.
And if some Krstjani were present in Bosnia, they were not known as Bosnjani. The national-identity term came later.
The region of Hum where Kosaca family ruled was Orthodox and was Serb.
According to the Ragusan sources this is how they say about Hum:

This regie of Huma and Hotca belong to noble rule of house of Kosaca. For they are of Serb rule and come to relation of Vlastimirovic.

And House of Kosača was a medieval Orthodox Serb Bosnian-Herzegovinian family that ruled over Hum (Herzegovina).

So, why do you deny historical facts and immediately go into politics.
And I am not going to discuss politics with you.


CHEERS

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Hmm interesting. The croatians from the town of mostar took the symbol of the Kosaca family as the symbol of west Mostar. I think it is obvious that all the people in the Bosnian banate and later the Bosnian kingdom called themeselves with one name: Bosnjani. Hrvoje Vukicic Hrvatinic who was an nobleman from Dalmacija was the ONLY not Bosnian figure in the political live in Bosnia. But he was a Croat and not a Serb.

Thanks im glad if i could help

Katarina was Polish and not Croat, as she was born there.For those who claim she was ''Croat''


As for Hum region.Even though this region was under Serb nominal rule, after their nucleus state-autonomy created in 868,especially after Gojak, Strojomir, and especially Castimir who expanded Rascian state into Bosnia.Castimir Caslav Klonimirovic.There is no evidence, for neither Serb influence, nor cultural, during brief reign of Castimir 938 around 960.Taken and drowned by Hungarian king in battle of Brcko, where he met gruesome faith.Before that he had battled in Cvilini Field, Cvilinsko Polje around 947 ad.


After establishment of Spc, which might i add, Hum wasnt part nor did Stefan Prvovencani son of Stefan Nemanja 1167-1200, Duclean, and later Rascian king, Nemanjic founder, and father of Rastko, brother of Stefan, who established Spc in 1219.Why would his top man say there is no Rascian influence after 20 years?20 Years and neither one bir or Vrhovina?


Show me Serb influence in Hum region.If some would say Turkish cruelty or worse, remember most of the churces that were created in Kosovo, under Milutin 1281-1321, Stefan Decanski 1321-1330, and Dusan 1331-1355, werent torched by the Turks.So, then most claim that

Hvalov apostol was a proof, that old Bosnians were Orthodox.Hval apostol was written in 1404, and its similar to the Orthodox religious manuscripts but it has so many flaws, that even some major Serb historians like Dinic refuted such statement


Miroslavo Jevandjelje and Hval Apostol are only so called claim contemporary Croat and Serb historians have over Bosnia