Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

Funny - I have the same book!

Prob 1 is: They often didn't do this.
Prob 2 is: This can't be modded anyway.

Concerning the Sawbian Swordsmen: Have you ever tried charging an already engaged enemy unit with them? That's what they are there for in the first place, and they work quite well in that all (some sort of 'linebraker' like the Zweihänder later on.

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

Where do we post stuff about 0.6? Here or in the discussion one for 0.6?
I dont know if this is a bug but the welsh city of Caenevaron or however you spell it, cannot construct a port even though it has a coastline, is it supposed to be like this?
And with Judaism being added, can you make it so it causes more unrest in Catholic factions than in others? After all, in medieval times (apart from world war eras germany), Europe was the last place a jew wanted to be.

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

If you have specific ideas or comments on the upcoming version 0.6, post it in the 'HRR 0.6 discussion' thread. For more general things post here.

Perhaps it was the mapmaker's intend to allow no port in Caenevaron. If that's historically incorrect, I will change it.

You sentence reads as if jews would prefer WW2 germany over medieval Europe... But I know what you mean. Jews weren't really welcome anywhere except in the (much more tolerant and educated) islamic parts of the map.

However, I don't think it's possible to mod different unrest rates for different religions (AFAIK).

But with Icefrisco's aid I hope to simulate the major events involving jews in Europe.

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

Dimitri_Harkov said:

Concerning the Sawbian Swordsmen: Have you ever tried charging an already engaged enemy unit with them? That's what they are there for in the first place, and they work quite well in that all (some sort of 'linebraker' like the Zweihänder later on.

Click to expand...

I think maybe here we have a problem of "imagin".
I belive swabyan and the other two handed swordsmen are really shock\assault troops to me.
I think they should face any other assault inf. and beat the other non specized ones...

(please forgive me for my bad English, it's not my leanguage)

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

i also think what you say stainer,
i mean as far as i know lots of soldiers and known knights loved and fighted with two handed swords.

Also people who faced this guys with this massive swords would get probably really afraid of seeing a man carry a 70 inch/1.8 meter sword.

But history tells us that this swords:
According to post-medieval accounts, the earlier, more practical Zweihänder types were used to break up pike formations, first by smashing the pikes and then by hitting the pikemen themselves

But in M2TW we cannot implement so that the 2 handers fight better against spearmen, Once i saw a dismounted gothic knight unit fight a armored sergeant and the Gothic knights lost like 30 or more of there men, i was surprised...

Edit:
One more thing:
While implemented in Germany in the 14th century, it gained renown during the 16th century as the hallmark weapon of the German Landsknechts from the time of Maximilian I
... will we be able to have two handed swordman?

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

The timeframe of our current mod version ends in 1300. So - no, we will not see that unit yet.

According to my sources, the Zweihänder were not used as independant linebreakers, but would wait until two pike units were locked in combat and would then start their charge. But maybe the experts are two minded when it comes to that tactic.

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

To tell you the truth if we want to make this 100% historical, we shouldnt have any two hander units.

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

We should but they should be rare. Though not likely its possible that there were two-handers around by 1250.

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

causes bad lag though.

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

No MTW2 can be totally historical, because as soon as you start making moves or building certain units or attacking certain towns/castles, it is not historical any more. I always feel I have to keep reminding people that this is just a game. A great game, but a game nonetheless and first and foremost any game, or mod for that matter, needs to be fun to play!

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

Well that this is a game is out of the question.
But to me it's a lot more too.
I admit, i've never enjoyed history so much till when i starded play games about that.

these are simulations as well and those games we play now are somewhat "primitive" they could improve furhter on and i belive this is now "the frontier".

Concerning about two handed swords, i've been for a little time a historycal reenactor and (for fun) i've played both two hand and one hand sword vs an adversary, and it seem to me that the one with the two hand weapon haved more chances of hitting the target. (but even more to be hit).
Also if the two adversary swords get in contact there is always the chance that one sword gets broke, and it actually had happen, which one? the bigger or the smaller?

I would like to know why to be 100% historical we can't have any two hander units?

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

Well, all I can say, is if there are no two handed swords that will not make it a mod that is bad, and if it does have 2 handed swords it will make it a great mod! most of the things being mentioned are so small as to be of interested to a couple of gamers only. It's the big things that will make this a great mod, not the small things.

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

It's the big things that will make this a great mod, not the small things.

Click to expand...

Exactly. Speciality mods are made to focus on the small things, this is a full modification of the game and therefore focuses on improving the game in general.

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

Good!

so lets have our two handers a little bit improved...
Please... hehe

I mean i love the two handers but i cant enjoy them if they are bad

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

A few points:

it would be better if the faction leader becomes not emperor, but king (historically: rex romanorum) after election. he could gain the trait emperor when visiting rome, because there were german kings who never became emperor (eg. Conrad III). Would make a further challenge to the player.

btw is it possible to make the faction leader loose the title duke, and give it to the heir (as many kings made their relatives dukes after becoming king)?

just a few thoughts. Like the idea of the mod very much. The HRE is one of my main points of critique in the vanilla game.

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

@HannibalExMachina

Welcome to the HRR(Heiliges Romische Reich) forums! I hope you like the mod.

it would be better if the faction leader becomes not emperor, but king (historically: rex romanorum) after election. he could gain the trait emperor when visiting rome, because there were german kings who never became emperor (eg. Conrad III). Would make a further challenge to the player.

Click to expand...

The mod already has something like this.

btw is it possible to make the faction leader loose the title duke, and give it to the heir (as many kings made their relatives dukes after becoming king)?

Click to expand...

Hmmm....I dont know if it is possible but Dimitri would.

just a few thoughts. Like the idea of the mod very much. The HRE is one of my main points of critique in the vanilla game.

Click to expand...

Thank you for your kind words and suggestions! If you have any more suggestions please tell us.

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

Hello HannibalExMachina!

I know that there were quite some kings of the HRE that never became emperor, but when I started the mod there was no distinction between them. Meanwhile I added the coronation in Rome, but (stupid me) I forgot to change the title to King in the traits section. The event has been changed to call the newly elected king 'rex romanorum' already. I will change that for 0.6.

The thing with the heirs and the title of duke can't be done, as the titles can't be changed in-game. But I have something similar in mind: Konrad, the son of Heinrich, was Duke of Lower Lorraine in 1080. I will therefor create an ancillary that every heir of the current king is duke of Lower Lorraine too (In the same way as the Emperor is always king of Burgundy too).

Thanks for the feedback,
Cheers, D.

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

I registered on this forums now, so I can say something about this mod.
Well. I downloaded it for one main reason: to lead my country - Franconia - to WORLD DOMINATION
But I saw, first of all, that the only way to expand my empire in the beginning, is to start crushing Poland, the Obotrites, or Bavaria straight away. I decided to attack Poland, and saw the first thing I want to actually recommend:

As I declared war on the Poles, none of the other duchys even responded. Why don't you try and implement the system that they had in RTW for those situation: If any Roman faction declared war on another faction, the others followed immediately. It would be quite a bit more realistic, or at least more interesting, if at least your direct neighbours follow you into war, me thinks. It needn't be like "Turn 3 - Franconia declares war on Poland -- Turn 4 The complete Reich crushes Poland", but at least a LITTLE reaction to an attack would be nice.

Also, I'd like to be able to see which duchies have Elector Counts, and who can be elected in case the Kaiser dies...

And, of course, couldn't you re-skin the units in the UI for all German factions? I mean, that's not extremely necessary, as it's still a beta, but it would be nice. As well as being able to see the other duchies from the start.

Apart from these little issues, your mod is absolutely FANTASTIC
I had version 0.4 before, it didn't work (I had the wrong version of M2TW), and after getting Kingdoms a few days ago, I wanted desperately top have that mod... I am not at all dissatisfied or anything. 'twas the right decision to get it... but sadly, the German translation won't download
Never mind that tho, I can play in English too...
Enough blah-blah for now...
Again, your mod is BRILLIANT

EDIT
And please get rid of them pirates! I don't think it's realistic, that my navy comes to the coast, and is suddenly surrounded by 5 -yes FIVE - pirate fleets! And I remember seeing them hanging around near Danzig for six or seven turns....
My poor count now is on his own in Scandinavia... Maybe that's a reminder not to mess up too much with history... my Franconians recently conquered Kalmar...

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

As I declared war on the Poles, none of the other duchys even responded. Why don't you try and implement the system that they had in RTW for those situation:

Click to expand...

It is historically accurate that not every duchy would declare war at once. When Henry IV attacked the Papal States not every duchy supported him, when Henry the Lion attacked the Obotrites not every duchy supported him, ect.

Also, I'd like to be able to see which duchies have Elector Counts, and who can be elected in case the Kaiser dies...

Click to expand...

Dimitri_Harkov would have to comment about that(he is the scripter).

And, of course, couldn't you re-skin the units in the UI for all German factions? I mean, that's not extremely necessary, as it's still a beta, but it would be nice. As well as being able to see the other duchies from the start.

Click to expand...

All the German factions will be diversified within a few months(my rough estimate). As you said this is still a beta.

Apart from these little issues, your mod is absolutely FANTASTIC

Click to expand...

Thank you!

And please get rid of them pirates! I don't think it's realistic, that my navy comes to the coast, and is suddenly surrounded by 5 -yes FIVE - pirate fleets! And I remember seeing them hanging around near Danzig for six or seven turns....

Click to expand...

I never had such a problem with pirates but if more people report your problems we will change it.

Thank you for your recomendations and comments.

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

Icefrisco said:

I never had such a problem with pirates but if more people report your problems we will change it.

Click to expand...

I always have problems with pirates. Once I used a mod that made me able to play the Aztecs and use a fleet to invade Europe - 2 of my 3 full stack armies aboard the fleets were rushed by pirates, the last one just landed in Ireland when the pirates crushed that fleet as well. Or in a vanilla game with Venice - I wanted to get my crusading army to Jerusalem by ship - it's much faster that way - as soon as my fleet reached the Mediterranean - BANG - pirates came and crushed it. If that happens once or twice, okay. But always? It really gets frustrating... Little question? What happens iv I set "pirate_spawn_value" in descr_strat.txt to 0? I tried it once but it didn't do anything....

And another recommendation: Make it possible that you see every HRE-faction - always. At least if you play as the Kaiser's faction.

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

I always have problems with pirates. Once I used a mod that made me able to play the Aztecs and use a fleet to invade Europe - 2 of my 3 full stack armies aboard the fleets were rushed by pirates, the last one just landed in Ireland when the pirates crushed that fleet as well. Or in a vanilla game with Venice - I wanted to get my crusading army to Jerusalem by ship - it's much faster that way - as soon as my fleet reached the Mediterranean - BANG - pirates came and crushed it. If that happens once or twice, okay.

Click to expand...

That sucks. I guess we could change that.

And another recommendation: Make it possible that you see every HRE-faction - always. At least if you play as the Kaiser's faction.

Click to expand...

That is a good idea but I am not sure if it is possible.

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

Hey Graf zu Adler!

It IS possible to see who is Elector Count, Banned, etc... as mentioned here (and on Total War Zone too) just click the question mark in the top right corner of the diplomacy overview screen to get infos on such things.

Always seeing the other duchies is not possible (afaik). But I could increase their chance to trade map infos more often.

It would be highly unrealistic if all of the hre declared war on one enemy just because it was attacked by one duchy. I will try to increase the chance that others will help, however.

We are also currently working on re-skinned UI unit cards ATM.

Thank you for the feedback!

Cheers, D.

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

AFAIK, the Campaign description of Milan says, that they want to leave the HRE. However, after a few turns I have Excellent relationships to Milan again. Cant you script that Milan declares war on one of the duchys after a while? Would be more fitting I guess. Or at least the should be unhappy with the Empire for longer.

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

I was playing with the byzantine empire when something strange happened, in one turn three factoins were destroyed, spain, upper lorraine and burgundy, i typed in a map cheat and saw that scotland had conquered half of europe, i started a new campaign with swededn and the same thing happened, im guessing that which ever faction controls the whole of britain becomes a super power in a way, cause no other faction sends a fleet to land in Britain, due you think it is possible to make france,(and with the absence of Norway) and denmark use fleets more often and england and scotland?

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

Funny - I never saw that happen in hundreds and hundreds of test turns. What difficulty settings do you use? The campaign was designed and tested for VH/H settings.

Cheers,
D.

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

Well, I'm on medium usually.... Used to be a Easy-Settings-Cheater, but the AI was far too inactive then.
As I started a Britannia-Campaign with Norway yesterday, the Scots declared war on me in turn 3 - my Army was scattered around to conquer some tiny Rebel Islands... That is a bit more of an active AI...

Recommendation in this Post: why don't you make the Obotrites ore someon else - Milan, exempli gratia - do the same thing?

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

Scotland can raise millions and huge armies because it gets tons of money every month in most mods. This is one of the ways mod makers make the game harder. To my view, there is no point making a game harder if it makes it illogical and therefore destroys immersion. I play as England, and Scotland is way tougher than either Ireland or France to beat. I usually go after France and Denmark to protect my Southern and Eastern borders, and only then go for Scotland who can create a stack, lose half a stack in a battle and have a full stack again next turn, for turn after turn, all with two towns! This is historically ridiculous and yet this cash thing has been given to small nations to make them harder to take over, therefore allowing mod makers to announce how they have made a mod that needs to be played at VH.

Because all mods do this cash thing, I still play with SS 5.1 despite it having it because of all the other things SS 5.1 offers.

I do have one question which has never been answered, and that is:

Why is it the General does not give the full speech prior to battle? Why are the comments about the enemy and the comments about the type of soldiers your army or the enemy army has not there, like in the vanilla game? Why in SS do we just get the initial comments only? I find the full comments very interesting and strategically useful. Is there any way to get the full General's pre-battle speech back please?!

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

I was playing on VH/VH
I have also noticed something else, the Moors never go to war , unless it is a jihad against Constantinople, Portugal rarely attacks them, and spain never does, cant you make them start off at war or something?

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

I was playing on VH/VH
I have also noticed something else, the Moors never go to war , unless it is a jihad against Constantinople, Portugal rarely attacks them, and spain never does, cant you make them start off at war or something?

Click to expand...

It is very easy to make them start off at war. If Dimitri likes the idea of historical diplomacy then it might be added into the mod.

Re: Das Heilige Römische Reich- Recomendations

Hello everybody,

first off all, nice job for making this mod.

a question, is it posible that the emperor give the title of Kürfurst to other members of the HRE?
if not, do you want it to keep it more realistic? or not?

Because you can change the titles of some members, because there where 3 devine powers and 4 world powers who voted the emperor:

- Devine Powers:

Archbishop of Mainz: Franconia
Archbishop of Trier: upper - Lorraine
Archbishop of Köln: lower-Lorraine

I thought you can change the names of this members to this titles, but you then have the prob of heritage.
A way to change this is: give the emperor, pope and other worldpowers of the HRE the posibilty to vote for the strongest bisshops. Then the pope can make influence of the emperors election, he can place his men to the seat of Archbishop, but for the other way, the Archbishop is also a member of the seats of Rome who elect the pope. That way the emperor has influence to Rome . When the emperor is excommunicated the antipopes have a vote in stat of the real pope (if it's posible)

- World powers:

PfalzCount of Rhein: Swabia
Duke of Saxony: is correct
Count of Brandenburg: *
King of Bohamia: is correct

* Let the lord who conquer this city give the title Kürfust, so foreingers can be it to (but they cant be emperor), or you have 2 votes has a lord and have more influence to the emperorelection(love the feodale world)

- some city names of the lower lands must be changed:

Utrecht: can be Amsterdam: more info below
Antwerp: pff, Liège and Brussels were more important: i prefere Liège: more info below

- When you change those citynames you can apply more persons as ancillary?

count of flanders:

when you conquer artois and/or flanders you get the count as vazal:
more management +3, more trade +3, less loyalty -5, the count was vazal of france and HRE, thats why the lords who conquer artois and/or flanders can have this ancillary (another feodale aspect)

Prince-Bishop of Liège:

who conquer liège has the prince-bishop as vazal:
more piety +3, more commandpoints +3, less loyalty -5

Prince-Bishop of Utrecht:
who conquer Utrecht has the prince-bishop as vazal:
more piety +3, more management + 3, less loyalty -5

Those persons wherent very loyal, thats why i say -5, the region was the richest of europe thanks to trade and management, thats why you get lots of management and trade, liège was the armory of europe, (still is, to bad), and because the prince-bishop was also bishop more piety

King of Holland, when you conquer Amsterdam, Liège and Brugges, you get this title and want to split from HRE (when your part of it) and become King and prince, nobody can take this away from you (if this is posible)

so those where my thoughts that give you more fun

Im sorry for my bad english, not my mainlangues

Greetz