Help required....

[Grimbold]

With essentially learning the game.

I've hardly played vanilla, having only played it for a couple of weeks on launch. But DeI tempted to pick up the game.

As you might suspect, the mod is quite overwhelming for someone like me. I was wondering if you veteran folks have some starting tips.

I've glanced over some of the guides here, namely the population growth, but they look more like basic description than actual instructions.

I think I'm on my 3rd try with Pontus, all on Normal. I lost on the first two, and on my 3rd I heard that diplomacy is very important, and the reason why one has a larger treasury at the start is exactly for that. So I proceeded to gift away money, in exchange for non aggression & trade agreements.

But now, some turns in, but treasury is in the dump, with a measly 500 a turn, I haven't done much besides capture trapezius and just end turns waiting for buildings, in addition to getting annoyed with the whole public order & population grown question.

What's the deal with the population surplus? Smth about needing 4 of it to open another slot.

[Caledoni]

I've not played Pontus but if you've had a few goes then you should have an idea which factions declare war on you and which don't as well as what is happening around you.

Personally I use my starting cash to put together an army ASAP (mercenaries along with your starting stack) and attack a weak neighbour to gain an easy early expansion this can be reapeated until the factions around you start to develop. Diplomacy is something you have to persevere with and see what works. I try not too spend too much early on here as you need your cash for armies and building up your economy. Have a look at the factions around you and see who they go to war with. If you declare war on their enemies it will make them like you and you can build up relations like this. As you get trade resources more factions will want to trade with you. If your not planning on going to war with a faction anytime soon then trade agreements are great for both cash and diplomacy. I often use a spy to go find me trading partners. Be aware though that factions can randomly declare war on you and the more enemies you have the more appealing a war with you is for them. I've had the Brigantes (in Northern England) sail armies to invade me in Southern Italy as well as Armies from Iberia try to invade me on Greece.

The early game is usually the hardest part and I tend to have to fight a lot of critical and close battles. Get used to playing battles rather than autoresolving and then winning them with minimum losses and maximum casualties. A good one here is using amushes. I will often set an abush with a strong army then set a weak one as bait.

A good source of income early on is when you take a settlement is to loot it. I usually then destroy the buildings and can start from scratch. This means you get a wad of cash and if the enemy takes it back they have lost their buildings. You can also now build it up as you like it.

If you only have a couple of regions then you can set the tax rate high for a load of income. If you get a rebellion you can let it grow for a turn or 2 and smash it with your army. This can also be used to sort out public order.

Once you have population surplus you can expand building slots. It's not really something to focus too much on but the best ways to influence it are by low taxes and techs and buildings that give + to growth.

One thing to remember is that armies are more valuable than cities. If your at war with a faction you want to take out their stacks with minimal losses to your armies. Armies are expensive too though so keep an eye on upkeep. If you hire mercs then it might be worth getting rid of them as soon as you can replace them with regulars. I play quite aggressively so my armies are generally always busy. Stacks sitting about doing nothing is extremely inefficient.

Hopefully some of this helps you.

[Grimbold]

@Caledoni thanks for the post, it certainly helps with the multitude of question marks I have.

I had to stop my nr 3 Pontus try. I had spent all of my initial cash on diplomacy and was left with 400-800 revenue for who knows how many turns. Though did that work for a while, the campaign was a bit dull and I was just watching my neighbors grow. Despite that, all those turns doing nothing but researching did help with PO & population growth. I actually managed to get my cities in the green in order to get that extra slot. But by then, the Galatians - who didn't like me - had already absorbed Sinope, Bythnia & Pergamom and I was next. They had like 3 decent stacks and I had not even a full one.

Speaking of buildings, I came across a post here about ideal building orders, and something about that you really only need 2 provinces built for revenue. How does one go about that?

If the start of the campaign is about blitzing, should I bother building a barracks at Amasia? Or should I just build smth else? Cause some people say forget about decent units. Just spam levies and blitz as much as you can.

[Caledoni]

So I've not played with Pontus but here's an idea of how I might go about the opening part of the game. if Galatia rise to be the dominant power then you should take them out asap. You can maybe attack Sinope straight away and take it with Mercenaries and your starting stack. Trapesoz is another option, both would be ideal but I'd need to play the start to get a proper feel for who's around you. Then you can disband the mercenaries and hire some levies. Send your spy to have a look at where Galatia's armies are. If they are laying siege to Bythina (Nicomedia) then you could declare war and take Ancyra from them. This would give you a walled settlement that you could garrison if they sent there armies back to get you. You could even go and destroy their armies while they are laying siege to one of your neighbours. Another option is wait until they take Bithiyna and attack it as soon as they do. They wont have time to build up a garrison and their assaulting army will have taken losses in the siege. This will give you Nicomedia and take out one of their armies. You can then invade them using your spy to see where their other armies are. Best trying to fight them when they are weak or busy and if they are attacking other factions like Peragmon and bithiynia then you will build relations with them also. Try to build and keep momentum too. If you decide to consolidate when you cant even afford one stack then you are going to have a hard time defending yourself as your neighbours get stronger. The start of my campaign's are almost always about blitzing!

Ptolemaios Soter made a great guide a couple of posts down from this. I would not worry about it too much for the early game though. I would aim for a level 2 barracks in Amenisa but i would not wait for it to be finished before I went off conquering stuff. Things like population growth, infrastructure and research are things that should happen in the background while you are out expanding your lands. If you take Sinope you can maybe build a fish port there for food. For walled cities i usually just build from the yellow chain. Tavern for food, Theatre chain and slave trader. Temples, Barracks etc all go in minor towns. Apart from getting to build level 2 Barracks and the reforms I spend most of the first 100 turns researching the various civil techs and not military. Once you have a few provinces and you can breathe a bit more have a look at his post.

https://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?800656-Province-Management-amp-Economy-Guide

As I say build a barracks but don't wait for it before going on the attack. Not sure about Pontus's roster but Guessing you can get some pike or hoplite units(I prefer pikes). Get 5-6 of these with 4 archers, 3-4 cav +cav general then the rest as Swords, Axes, peltasts, light spears or whatever you can get your hands on. Use the pikes to form a battle line with the archers behind and use your other units and cav to win the flanks

[Grimbold]

So I've not played with Pontus but here's an idea of how I might go about the opening part of the game. if Galatia rise to be the dominant power then you should take them out asap. You can maybe attack Sinope straight away and take it with Mercenaries and your starting stack. Trapesoz is another option, both would be ideal but I'd need to play the start to get a proper feel for who's around you. Then you can disband the mercenaries and hire some levies. Send your spy to have a look at where Galatia's armies are. If they are laying siege to Bythina (Nicomedia) then you could declare war and take Ancyra from them. This would give you a walled settlement that you could garrison if they sent there armies back to get you. You could even go and destroy their armies while they are laying siege to one of your neighbours. Another option is wait until they take Bithiyna and attack it as soon as they do. They wont have time to build up a garrison and their assaulting army will have taken losses in the siege. This will give you Nicomedia and take out one of their armies. You can then invade them using your spy to see where their other armies are. Best trying to fight them when they are weak or busy and if they are attacking other factions like Peragmon and bithiynia then you will build relations with them also. Try to build and keep momentum too. If you decide to consolidate when you cant even afford one stack then you are going to have a hard time defending yourself as your neighbours get stronger. The start of my campaign's are almost always about blitzing!

Ptolemaios Soter made a great guide a couple of posts down from this. I would not worry about it too much for the early game though. I would aim for a level 2 barracks in Amenisa but i would not wait for it to be finished before I went off conquering stuff. Things like population growth, infrastructure and research are things that should happen in the background while you are out expanding your lands. If you take Sinope you can maybe build a fish port there for food. For walled cities i usually just build from the yellow chain. Tavern for food, Theatre chain and slave trader. Temples, Barracks etc all go in minor towns. Apart from getting to build level 2 Barracks and the reforms I spend most of the first 100 turns researching the various civil techs and not military. Once you have a few provinces and you can breathe a bit more have a look at his post.

https://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?800656-Province-Management-amp-Economy-Guide

As I say build a barracks but don't wait for it before going on the attack. Not sure about Pontus's roster but Guessing you can get some pike or hoplite units(I prefer pikes). Get 5-6 of these with 4 archers, 3-4 cav +cav general then the rest as Swords, Axes, peltasts, light spears or whatever you can get your hands on. Use the pikes to form a battle line with the archers behind and use your other units and cav to win the flanks

That's for the helpful recommendations. But, that assumes Galatia would be the only aggressive faction, which they are not. The one that stands for Armenia, Hayr or whatever they're called, plus Cappadocia also tend to be aggressive.

As for the barracks, the first level only provides stronger hoplites, no sarissa phalanxes available. The thing is, as a newbie to the game, I can only foresee this working if I use this cheat people have mentioned, that is, to recruit 1 single general and have him constantly lay siege to a town to prevent the AI from recruiting/building up, while my main army is being recruited.

Cause I tried blitzing before. I recruited around 16 trash units and went for Sinope. I drew their forces out and won, but then...then what? I have an army at half gas (granted Im not the best of players) and need to retreat and the AI recovers.

Also, the AI seems to have some nice economic bonuses, cause while I'm there holding a 13-16 unit army my revenue goes down the drain, while, say Galatia, is still rocking 2k revenue at Ancrya

[Caledoni]

Surely Galatia, Armenia and cappadochia are not declaring war and sending armies to you straight away? You are playing on Normal difficulty also?

Are you waiting to train units before you attack? all that will happen then is the AI will hire them too. Hire mercenries and attack the settlement directly on Turn 1 or 2. If you wait 4 turns to train an army The factions around you will have had 4 turns to develop their own armies. You can disband the mercenaries after and replace them with trained units when you have more time. Standard hoplites are more than good enough to form a battleline just remember to put them in Phalanx mode.

[Grimbold]

Surely Galatia, Armenia and cappadochia are not declaring war and sending armies to you straight away? You are playing on Normal difficulty also?

Are you waiting to train units before you attack? all that will happen then is the AI will hire them too. Hire mercenries and attack the settlement directly on Turn 1 or 2. If you wait 4 turns to train an army The factions around you will have had 4 turns to develop their own armies. You can disband the mercenaries after and replace them with trained units when you have more time. Standard hoplites are more than good enough to form a battleline just remember to put them in Phalanx mode.

I mean, if decide to for Sinope/Trapezius and Armenia declares war on me - and they have decent armies - I'm gonna think twice. Meanwhile Galatia is asking me for a Non-Agression pact at the cost of 2.5k - i refuse - we all know where that ends up

I am playing on Normal and I'll keep giving it a try. God, coming from Roma Surrectum into this is such a shock

[Caledoni]

You'll get the hang of it. It's a big change from Vanilla let alone anything else. If you can it might be worth watching some let's play's while you play. Trying another faction could be an idea also, perhaps Rome. If you want a Hellenic one then I think Sparta, Massilla or Athens would be the easiest to start and are also quite intersting.

[Grimbold]

Well, it seems to be sort of working, on this try.

I grabbed some mercs, took Trapezius. Immediately after Armenia declared war, so I went on a looting run. I've looted 2 towns and going on a 3rd now. I dont dare going into inner Armenia cause that's where their big stacks are. I'm still only working with 1 merc army.

I was expecting the AI to come and retake them quickly, but 3 turns in and nothing. Now, I'm left with a food shortage.

Also, does this tactic influence other factions behavior? All of a sudden 2 or 3 factions asked for trade agreements and I was able to get some nice sums out of them, even though they're more powerful than I am

[Summary]

UNDERSTANDING CORE MECHANICS:
If someone hasn't recommended it already, I strongly suggest you check out the DeI website it is very useful. It gives a very good explanation of the mechanics introduced in DeI.

https://divideetimperamod.com/


GENERAL BEGINNERS GUIDE:
After you have gone through that, I also recommend having a look at this video on YouTube, it isn't mine but the uploader plays DeI extensively and summarizes how to play the game nicely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZBhKv2SGA

ECONOMICS & BUILDINGS GUIDE:
Last but not least, this is a nice guide that I used to improve my economy.

https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...-Economy-Guide

A FEW OF MY TIPS:

• Skill tree priorities for Generals (leading armies), should focus on replenishment and upkeep cost. This is because early game the AI has a massive advantage financially and can therefore, field more armies than you. Also early game your armies will lack the defense stats meaning casualties can be expected to be much higher than what a late game professional army would undergo.
• Avoid island captures, they take too long to travel to and from, and the opportunity cost is not worth it considering you can easily take out 2-3 single region factions in the same period of time. This is especially more crucial early game as you want to expand as quickly as possible to become stronger quicker and deter the CAI from declaring wars on you, by increasing your apparent strength vs their own.
• Try to get money in deals, and as much as you can sign Non-Aggression and Trade agreements with factions not in your immediate plans of conquest. I'd avoid defensive and military alliances with small factions simply because they will be targeted a lot and you would get called into wars that do not interest you, yet threaten your realm, while the AI contribution towards your own wars is virtually non-existent. For a defensive alliance I would prefer just one major power to again deter factions from declaring war on you, however, if you can avoid this but building your own strength quickly it is even more ideal. Sometimes if you have a sizable treasury, it is worth securing a Non-Aggression agreement by paying the faction in question, this is especially true when you intend to expand in a different direction and therefore, will secure your unprotected border. The CAI in DeI is much, much more aggressive in nature, and far better equipped to understand an opportune moment to declare war, therefore, it pays to keep them in your good books by whatever means possible.
• Diplomats (Governors) are great in provinces that generate income, spies are great early game to steal food and help with food shortages that can be an issue early game for smaller factions, heroes are great to be training the army and prioritize hiring heroes with bonuses such as experience gain, replenishment rates and most importantly upkeep reduction. When you are big enough and wish to challenge another empire, spies can be used primarily to scout the enemy army positions. This will allow you to direct your own stacks to engage with numerical superiority.
• When starting as a single region faction, it often pays to use your initial treasury to hire mercenaries to rush a bordering single region neighbor, instantly making your own faction the regional power primed to take out the other single region factions in the vicinity.
• Do not be intimidated by garrison armies, they are mostly poor quality troops that are quick to rout. They can however, prove to be a bigger nuisance in walled settlements.

[Garbad]

Also keep in mind that pontus is a relatively difficult faction with a hard starting location. If you want a much easier start, consider playing a british faction, egypt, or another large, isolated faction.

[Grimbold]

[IMG] [/IMG]

[IMG] [/IMG]

Excuse my ignorance, but what am I missing here?

I have this barracks level built but I don't have access to several of those units. Are the unit cards in the building description outdated or am misreading something somewhere?

[Jake Armitage]

reform units, probably?

[Grimbold]

reform units, probably?

That would make sense.

But the same situation happens with the very first barracks level, with pike phalanx units which I never saw being recruitable.

Also, my historical ignorance aside, I would imagine it wouldn't make much sense to have pike phalanx units - like the Bronze shields - locked behind reforms


Edit: So I've reached Imperium lvl 3 and I'm at 66 turns. I still don't have access to several units shown on the image above. The units within the barracks descriptions don't match what is available when you build them.

I'd appreciate it if someone could explain this to me.