Fourth Age- A discussion place

jpempire · Mar 3, 2013

Don't you feel a little bit dissapointed that Tolkien's Middle Earth Story's "end"?

What you think? That Middle earth storys are ok as they are or do you like to see the story of "THE FOURTH AGE " if you like to see a story of the fourth age Tell what you think that could be.

Some people say that start in Fourth Age it is the dominion of the men and that is when the primitive men "born".

Lortano · Mar 3, 2013

He planned to write for the Fourth Age in a sequel to LotR, however he quickly saw that in his last few books he'd killed practically all evil in Middle-Earth, and that it would pointless to usher in a new villain when all the good ones were gone.

That is also my opinion, what's the point in writing a new story if you've just killed the personification of evil in Middle-Earth at the time?

jpempire · Mar 3, 2013

Well Tolkien started to write a book called the New Shadow (about 13 pages unfinished) that the young people of Gondor started to make rituals about orcs or something

Son of Mars · Mar 3, 2013

The Dominion of Men was going to be a place of infighting and treachery among men with the occasion Dwarf or Orc playing a small role. The Elves are gone. I would've loved to have seen something but much of the good enemies are gone.

jpempire · Mar 3, 2013

Maybe the relations of Gondor and Rohan could be after fragile? With Aragorn dead GONDOR could be fragile too.

bojieh · Mar 3, 2013

There's a trilogy written by Nick Perumov taking place during the Fourth age( Ring of Darkness ). Haven't read the third one, but the first two are nice. It's not Tolkien, but...

Feanaro Curufinwe · Mar 3, 2013

It is alright as he left it. Rather perceptive of him not to make up a new lieutenant that survived the Fall of Barad-Dur and continued the fight (Possibly with a ridiculous superweapon that had an obvious weakness). And why would the Gondor-Rohan relations be strained? They co-existed co-cooperatively for centuries. Such a notion is frankly ridiculous. As for Aragorn's death weakening the Reunited Kingdom, why would that happen? No new split would happen, as there was only one male heir, a new Kinstrife would be unlikely, as the cause of the first was a Numenorean-Northman King, who would possibly not live long enough and beggar the Royal Line.

Lortano · Mar 3, 2013

I can imagine this lieutenant in my head.
"Behold! For I have converted the palantir of Barad'dur into a weapon that will raze Minas Tirith to the-" Hero throws palantir into the volcano.
"Oh....well that didn't work.

refeyggn · Mar 4, 2013

The Dominion of Men was going to be a place of infighting

jpempire · Mar 4, 2013

We never know for example the people of Rhun and Harad could try to find the rings of the nazgul and forge another ring? Or perhaps unlishe a big army of dead?

Just thinking

Arǭmēz · Mar 4, 2013

The reason Tolkien abandoned the "New Shadow" was that the new problems were caused by men, due to the long peace of the Kingdom.
Children played "war" and some were orcs some were men. Men had began whispering Morgoth's name but that is all we know of that...
The new book had lost the depth and epic-mythological style Tolkien wanted so he abandoned it.

Gondor and Rohan relations would not easily be broken... after soooo many years of intermariage there would be few pure blood rohirrim or pure blood Gondorians... Remember The Third line of the Rohirric Kings were akin to the Princes of Dol-Amroth (via Lothiriel), and the Princes of Ithilien (via Eowyn).
Why would Gondor become fragile with Aragorn's death?

The nine rings were lost and powerless since the destruction of the One Ring, the Easterlings and Haradrim definitely would never have the skill to make a Ring of Power.

Considering the ammount of texts Tolkien left unfinished, In think it best he did not try to expand into the fourth age... If he had we may not have had other beautiful stories he wrote after the Trilogy, but instead have a half finished book...

Feanaro Curufinwe · Mar 4, 2013

What did he write after? All I remember is that he continued working on his old ones.

Krieglord · Mar 4, 2013

Although it would never be as good I think something to do with the blue wizards in the east could be interesting.

RuleBritannia · Mar 4, 2013

The Fourth Age, at least the later stages, could show the return of Morgoth and the utter devastation he'd bring against both Middle Earth and the Vala, until his eventual, permanent defeat, and then the ushering in of a new, more harmonious world. I'd imagine this would occur at some point in the Fourth Age.

Krieglord · Mar 4, 2013

Blue wizard cult army invades the west... think about it

Arǭmēz · Mar 5, 2013

His last word about the Blue wizards was that they never became corrupted:

...Morimehtar and Rómestámo. Darkness-slayer and East-helper. Their task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor-worship, to stir up rebellion... and after his first fall to search out his hiding (in which they failed) and to cause [?dissension and disarray] among the dark East... They must have had very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarraying the forces of East... who would both in the Second Age and Third Age otherwise have... outnumbered the West.

Tolkien always intented his stories to be as a prelude of the modern world (or the Seventh Age as he stated in one of his letters). So he would not write an account about the Last Battle, since it "has not happened yet".

AqD · Mar 5, 2013

Lortano said:
He planned to write for the Fourth Age in a sequel to LotR, however he quickly saw that in his last few books he'd killed practically all evil in Middle-Earth, and that it would pointless to usher in a new villain when all the good ones were gone.

That is also my opinion, what's the point in writing a new story if you've just killed the personification of evil in Middle-Earth at the time?

Men are the most evil. The story shall be set in the age when Men have enslaved all hobbits as peasant farmers, dwarves as slave miners, and orcs and easterlings as gladiators.

Pyres Δt Varanasi · Mar 8, 2013

aqd said:
Men are the most evil. The story shall be set in the age when Men have enslaved all hobbits as peasant farmers, dwarves as slave miners, and orcs and easterlings as gladiators.

And Once again the Blood of Númenor would be forgotten and men will fall back to darkness.

Withwnar · Mar 8, 2013

Arǭmēz;12649152 said:
His last word about the Blue wizards was that they never became corrupted:

They must have had very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarraying the forces of East... who would both in the Second Age and Third Age otherwise have... outnumbered the West.

Click to expand...

Odd that he mentions Second Age there. The Istari didn't arrive until about 1000 years after the Second Age.

Omnistar · Mar 9, 2013

Withwnar said:
Odd that he mentions Second Age there. The Istari didn't arrive until about 1000 years after the Second Age.

Tolkien states that the Blue Wizards arrived a good deal before the rest of the Istari in The Unfinished Tales. At least, that is agreed about them in their first mythology. Arqmez is talking about their earlier mythology. The second, in which the Blue Wizards are named Allatar and Pallando, are suggested to have possibly failed due to corruption in the end. This came through a claim that the Easterlings began a type of Dark Magic Cult and turned to sorrcery themselves in the Far East. Though it is never confirmed that the Blue Wizards started the cult, it is clear that it began while they were in the East. Though it could be suggested that the Blue Wizards of the second mythology still came before the others, it is clear that Saruman went with Allatar and Pallando into the East before they disappeared. Only Saruman ever returned from that journey......

Ngugi · Mar 9, 2013

The Second Age is not an idea mentioned in the Unfinished Tales, but comes from HoME 12; Last Writings; The Five Wizards, from a never transcribed note. There it is also suggested that the Blue Wizards made a good work in the East, releaving the West during the wars against Sauron.

While the latter is open to value against the in UT and letter 211 discussed failure of the Blue, the former part that they came during the Second Age is over-ruled by Tolkien's own 'rules'.
It is in the published LotR Appendicies directly stated that the Istari came around year thousand Third Age, and to Tolkien the published material was what we can call 'canon' [The Hobbit and LotR] - the real deal no longer open to changes and which had to be handled as facts in all new created material: and if a news is to over-rule that's made trough an edited version of the books, which happends now and then. But as it was not implemented into LotR [appendicies] it remain an interesting specualtion about the Blue Wizards but nothing more, as are many others, even on the matter of the Istari.
Especially as Last Writings at the same time present us another note (typhically JRR haha

) claiming Saruman indeed was first of the Istari entering Middle-earth [in the Third Age].

Fourth Age- A discussion place

Fourth Age- A discussion place

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