I WUB PUGS said:

As already stated in the thread, in this "modern" society more and more people are staying locked in what would've been considered adolescence even 15 years ago. You've got people in their 30s that can't pay rent on time, have mountains of debt because they buy dumb all the time, can't even get to work on time and rely on mommy and daddy to support them, but yet manage to keep in contact with 2000 people on facebook.

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What makes you think this is more common than 25, 50 or 100 years ago?

Personally I would say that generally you are old enough to have a child when you have your second child.

irelandeb said:

What makes you think this is more common than 25, 50 or 100 years ago?

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Nothing apart from the shift away from personal responsibility. It's not your fault for anything anymore. Whether it be "Corporations" or "Wall Street" or Obama.

Something has changed. In the 1990s you did have people doing the same sort of crap they've always done. Even Plato (IIRC) has a quote about youngsters behaving baddly. I'm not talking about people doing dumb stuff and blaming someone else. I'm talking about people doing dumb stuff and blaming someone else and society accepting that as a valid position.

Has this existed forever? God yes, how else did Germany come to blame the Jews? But really, how is it Obama's fault that you've stopped looking for work or refuse to get a new skill set? How is it Clinton's fault that you bought a $500,000 house on a $40,000 a year income? How is it McDonald's fault for getting you fat? These are big issues, couple them with the good ole "I'm late because X made me, not because I didn't wake up on time" and I'd say we're at a pretty low point for personal responsibility.

My generation of the late 20's to late 30's age is terrible with this. Most of the people I know from high school and college are still loafing it and this is considered completely legit.

I think our culture is as encouraging of responsibilty and as pressured against losers as it ever was. You can't open a tabloid without seeing a story ridiculing fat people who want to considered disabled or thin-skinned people getting self-righteously angry over nothing. I have never seen any sympathy for that kind of thing in the media. I think it's safe to say our culture is generally not tolerant of that sort of behaviour.

Sure, there are certain social groups that hold each other back, bums for life who comfort each other, 30 year olds whinging about how the opposite sex doesn't like them and that's not fair etc. But that's a classic case of being "in with the wrong crowd", and is a subculture rather than a representation of mainstream culture.

I've heard you complaining before about lower worker hours and increasing leisure time and I don't think that's connected to laziness and failure becoming societally acceptable. I think it's a beneficial product of a modern economy. Isn't it good that people don't have to work as much, yet still earn more and produce more than 50 years ago?

I don't see what you see in our media. American pundits are geared towards supporting the excuses of their viewer base. It is generally more acceptable here to blame McDonalds than it is to blame the people eating McDonalds. There are other factors, like the cost of good food, but no one is going tell a fat person they are fat because they eat like to their face. We'll always empathize with their "thyroid" or "genetic disposition". Not the 4 Big Macs they just inhaled.

Bill O'Reilly will harp all day about how the Democrats have failed us and that's why you can't get a job, or we're losing wealth.

Rachel Maddow will blame the covetous wealthy class and banks for the same.

No one is going to tell you to suck it up and go learn skills and move 2000 miles across the country to use those skills. No, the economy needs to come to you.

Well, perhaps there is a greater cultural difference between Ireland and the USA than I thought. Whenever I hear stories about people suing starbucks because their coffee burned them or someone demanding disability payouts because they are "genetically" 25 stone, it's always in the context of ridicule.

Of course our political system is much tinier and more local so we don't have the same kind of political pundits. Political extremism is virtually non existent.

It wasn't always this way. The coffee one doesn't work because that old lady was seriously burned and it doesn't fly anymore because all of our coffee is ing luke warm now.

Fat people will be the majority soon here Deb, soon we won't be able to hold them accountable for their fatness even though they are driving up health costs and cars and planes have to be designed differently.

We love idiots here, used to be able to call them idiots.

basically it really depends on the maturity of the person's involved in the couple and the financial stability both of them have as a couple, also the will to have the child and to raise it, their have been many cases of "mature" people that have financial stability.

1.Financially, when a person has a promising career and is wealthy enough to support a full family; He should at least be able to afford like one week of traveling abroad every year, have cars and large and fine houses. In short, he's capable when he no longer has to worry about money.

2.Mentally, it's hard to say. But a person has never sucessfully run a team of some sort, or knows nothing about politics, history, philosophy or even basic science rules, or lack the ability of critical thinking and analysis, I wouldn't believe he's capable of teaching kids.


Age doesn't really matter. Some Most people are failures in their entire life and no age is enough for them to have kids.

I WUB PUGS said:

We love idiots here, used to be able to call them idiots.

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Please, that term damages the self-esteem of the differently-abled.

aqd said:

1.Financially, when a person has a promising career and is wealthy enough to support a full family; He should at least be able to afford like one week of traveling abroad every year, have cars and large and fine houses. In short, he's capable when he no longer has to worry about money.

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I don't think there's need of possessing of many cars or really fine house, to have children. I think if U got one car, or even not having any, but enough money to traveling sometimes with taxis, it can be enough to have a child. There's also no need for big house, if U got 2 bedrooms it can be enough. Also I don't know how only traveling abroad every year must help to raise your child properly.

" I respect that, I'm not a parent myself so this is all speculative for me, but how do you answer Himster's view, basics?"

Valden,

I answer it this way. Not all children get into higher education and that field in itself does not stop those that are from chasing sex at every opportunity but it may limit the opportunities for doing so. An ordinary kid from the average Joe Blogg's family knows the dangers just as much as them in the more educated sector so knowledge is not the answer to possibly the most powerful driving force that all creation faces.

We have birth control but rather than stop unwanted pregnancies it encourages promiscuity until by fault a girl gets impregnated and yes it appears that most come from families classed in the lower echelons of society but not in every case. It also in a way has helped a decrease in population expansion but not the main factor as women already married are not having the same numbers of kids their parents did have, thanks to the likes of the pill.

So, when one finds their partner pregnant, one can turn to abortion, or one can bite the bullet and accept what has happened, do the right thing and learn about life along the way. What is sad is that not all young men do the right thing or when the going gets tough turn away leaving the lass to cope on her own. To me that is not manly in any respect. Alas that seems to be the way nowadays.

All I can say to them is that they don't know what they are missing. To see day by day a youngster take in more knowledge and make gains by it is something of a wonder. To teach them their first words, see them take their first steps, to watch as they become a little you and her is so satisfying that pride seems fit to burst upon any room that you are in. That child more or less becomes whatever you put into it. It doesn't come naturally, no, by experience, by errors and not making more errors and of course by some good advice.

Turning to age again, all I will say on that matter is that boys and girls would not have the equipment they do have at the age it is reached were it for no reason at all. Indeed, were the brain capable of making the deduction that age is important as not to have children before one is considered mature, then why did God or evolution bring it on so early? In the Godly sense union means marriage whether kids come along or not. In the evolutionary sense procreation is the all important factor with or without two parents, but age is no barrier.

How long is a stick? Answer that and I'll answer the OP.

Denny Crane! said:

How long is a stick? Answer that and I'll answer the OP.

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Half as long as a piece of string.

NRohirrim said:

I don't think there's need of possessing of many cars or really fine house, to have children. I think if U got one car, or even not having any, but enough money to traveling sometimes with taxis, it can be enough to have a child. There's also no need for big house, if U got 2 bedrooms it can be enough. Also I don't know how only traveling abroad every year must help to raise your child properly.

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Because a kid should have a guaranteed life, or childhood at least. He/she should be able to live in comfortable places, have good neighbors, and crimes and other misery should only exist in TV or books, and he/she should receive good education plus able able to meet different people all over the world, as part of education. Surely you wouldn't want your kid growing up to become a racist or completely ignorant of the world?


A kid should live in heaven and should be educated to be a living angel. Either that or no child should be born.

aqd said:

Because a kid should have a guaranteed life, or childhood at least. He/she should be able to live in comfortable places, have good neighbors, and crimes and other misery should only exist in TV or books, and he/she should receive good education plus able able to meet different people all over the world, as part of education. Surely you wouldn't want your kid growing up to become a racist or completely ignorant of the world?

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Yeah right. And citizens of (for example) USA must take family abroad every year not shorter than week: to Canada, Mexico, Brazil, France, UK, Japan etc. Because if not, surely theirs children become a racist or completely ignorant of the world. U know how much abroad travels cost?

A kid should live in heaven and should be educated to be a living angel. Either that or no child should be born.

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Yeah, sure. And meantime your woman would be impregnated by someone who doesn't care so much about money.

I think aqd was joking, but I'm not going to speak for him.

I want my kids to be functional members of society by 13. We should minimize this childhood luxury stuff. It's just going to hurt them later when they have to adjust to earning their own cake. Train hard, fight easy. That's how we treat everything else. Why not childhood?

Growing up is just a side effect of the fact we can't be born anything like fully developed due to birth canal issues and our big melon heads which require us to mature very slowly and learn stuff. Children aren't innocent or something. It's not like they aren't going to get "ruined" later as teenagers and adults.

Parenting should be about making your kid into a well rounded winner who can take on the world and beat the crap out of it until it does what they want.

25

Depends on social context. In older times where you died at 30/25 years old, you better be pumping kids and married at 15/16, both male and female. In nowadays? At least wait for 23-25 years old, to have some college and social experience, aswell as minimal financial stability.