Map Blog 3 - PSFs (8th Entry - PSF Script)

[Dansk viking]

Excellent looking Scandinavia!
Personally I would have placed some of the castles differently and maybe chosen other towns, but it's quite acceptable. However, some of the castles on the map are unknown to me (or misplaced) - I'm not sure whether you've placed them differently in accordance to the movement-pattern or if it's just a matter of polishing the coordinations.

Cheers and thanks for the preview!
DV

[Makrell]

i like scandinavia But why only two regions in norway? most mods have 3, and they dont keep all of scandinavia witin the map like you do

[Meneth]

i like scandinavia But why only two regions in norway? most mods have 3, and they dont keep all of scandinavia witin the map like you do

Seen all the PSFs there, though?

[Sknit]

I like the idea of the PSF's, and that map well it just looks astounding. Really cant wait for this mod.

[ErikBerg]

Scandinavia looks nice!
I'm curious about the Swedish coat of arms, I've never seen that one before! Other mods usually have the Folkung lion or the three crowns, I'm interested as to where you found this one.

[Hengest]

We needed something that predated the Folkung symbol since we are using that for the actual dynasty and naturally they weren't in power at the time. The earliest I found was of several lion variants, in two and threes usually the earliest dating back to Erik den helige who was by marriage related to Inge den äldre Stenkilsson who was FL at our start date. Therefore it could be argued to be the closest thing to a generic Swedish symbol. The Erikska ätten continued to use variants of the leopard or lion, which resemble the Norwegian, Danish and Folkung symbols. The Folkung symbol may well have had a similar origin to the Erikska lion(s), I can't remember where but it does appear in later royal crests too although I can't remember them right now I'm sure you'll find them in Swedish wikipedia. The colours were invented to be a bit neutral. Blue seemed a given though, basically we just referred to the Folkunga colours in reverse. We could put gold lions on I suppose to make it look nicer, and make it reflect the guldblå and the reverse Danish colours but since it's a reconstructed flag we wanted to play down the colours. Golden lions seems a bit bold considering there was no documented flag or crest at this time.

The griffin that is seen in the Arn film has puzzled a lot of Swedish fans and has been assumed to be an invention, but the Sverkerska ätten actually used a griffin and a griffin's head- something that re-appears in Skåne and in later medieval Östergötland (your avatar). Again, I don't know enough about the science of how these are related but it does seem significant.

Hoppas det hjälper lite grann

[One-Eye]

neviem ci ti toto nejak pomoze (anglictinu viem tak na 50%) ale je tam dost informacii rozneho druhu.
http://elibrary.sd71.bc.ca/subject_r...eagesframe.htm

sorry for slovak language...

[Hengest]

i like scandinavia But why only two regions in norway? most mods have 3, and they dont keep all of scandinavia witin the map like you do

Norway starts the campaign with 4 regions/settlements including Iceland and the Hebrides. The point is that Norway still is powerful as a faction and spread-out which is historical. Giving the country of Norway three regions isn't realistic because it was a well-populated country, and it wasn't internationally significant with the heavyweights like the Byzantines. Even England has only three homeland regions- 8 covering the entire isles (including Wales, Scotland and Ireland and the northern- Norwegian-held islands). So it really is well-balanced.

As you say we are unlike other mods because we actually include all of Norway and Iceland too- all the PSFs will have a very useful role in keeping Norway in the game but very localised. Unlike Sweden or Denmark though, Norway will have its western colonies overseas and that will allow it some strength and flexibility. In most mods, even when Norway has three or more regions it can be invaded by Scotland and conquered in a few turns. This is never going to happen in Dominion.

[Haakon]

The pictures doesnt do the map any justice. Its the best world map in any TW game/mod so far. The colors and details are simply amazing.

[stratigos vasilios]

Any chance of a Eastern Roman screen shot?

[Stark1]

Any chance of a Eastern Roman screen shot?

+1

[mynameisowen]

+1

+1

[Hengest]

Any chance of a Eastern Roman screen shot?

That will be in the next blog update I think, or the one after the next one

[Giorgios]

That will be in the next blog update I think, or the one after the next one

On Roman PSFs and provinces, Hross, please see all of the new info I've dumped in the devs' forums. No major changes, but a few small reshufflings to more accurately represent the situation in the Balkans in the early 1080s.

[Hengest]

Thanks, yeah it was a bit of a dump that! No probs, I'll try and go through it this weekend. There are loads of details that need logging in different spreadsheets, but it should help. The ERE family is coded but hasn't been tested in the main core files yet, I'll get Ciaran to upload it and place the characters on the map- we can do this along with your army placements. If there is any more info on those details -get them in now at the devs please!

[ErikBerg]

We needed something that predated the Folkung symbol since we are using that for the actual dynasty and naturally they weren't in power at the time. The earliest I found was of several lion variants, in two and threes usually the earliest dating back to Erik den helige who was by marriage related to Inge den äldre Stenkilsson who was FL at our start date. Therefore it could be argued to be the closest thing to a generic Swedish symbol. The Erikska ätten continued to use variants of the leopard or lion, which resemble the Norwegian, Danish and Folkung symbols. The Folkung symbol may well have had a similar origin to the Erikska lion(s), I can't remember where but it does appear in later royal crests too although I can't remember them right now I'm sure you'll find them in Swedish wikipedia. The colours were invented to be a bit neutral. Blue seemed a given though, basically we just referred to the Folkunga colours in reverse. We could put gold lions on I suppose to make it look nicer, and make it reflect the guldblå and the reverse Danish colours but since it's a reconstructed flag we wanted to play down the colours. Golden lions seems a bit bold considering there was no documented flag or crest at this time.

Interesting!
I've looked into the matter myself, and finding good, solid info is truly a hassle. What little info I did find was often vague, and many sources contradict eachother. I have however found out the following:

This early in Swedish history, the country itself had no coat of arms, only the currently reigning king had one. Problem is, no-one seems to know the coats of arms of Inge den äldre, or anyone else's of the House of Stenkil for that matter. Like yourself the earliest royal seals I have found were sporting leopards in twos and threes.
This site, http://joomla.heraldik.se/joomla/ind...apen&Itemid=33, shows the counter-seals of the Erik kings. It also mentions three crowned leopards being Erik Erikssons coat of arms, though the tincture is unknown. I did find a render of this CoA:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

On the same website I found further info on an Erik coat of arms, and it said that it was "möjligen ett motvapen mot det danska kungavapnet från samma tid" and that on a field of blue were three crowned leopards in gold.

With this knowledge I think it might not be as bold as was feared to have three golden crowned leopards on blue.

Of course, there is the possibility that I'm repeating info you already know, but I wanted to contribute, regardless!

[Hengest]

Thanks mate, the gold lions detail was something I hadn't found a source for, so that gives us something to think about.
I agree that it seems like a nod at the Danish crest. I think the Sverkerska crest we could use as a transition if it wasn't for the fact that we've already used all the slots- the three lions one above, the Folkunga one (seems like a given since they were the main dynasty) and then the Kalmar Union one which is the only actual transition.

[ErikBerg]

Glad you think it is food for thought!

About these transitions you mentioned: do the faction symbols change over time? Like, will the three lions change into the Folkung lion?

[Hengest]

Yeah exactly, the symbol will change if a character with the Folkung dynastic trait will become FL

[JonElias]

Hey, hopefully I'm not repeating someone else, but i personally think that the insignia of the Swedish kingdom should be The Three Crowns, it's iconic to the royal dynasty and they even fought a war against the Danes in order to keep it "Swedish."
BTW the Mod looks awesome so far, keep up the good work laddies!