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Thread: 2 TPY Project (2TP) 2.0

  1. #1
    Meneth's Avatar I mod, therefore I am
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    Default 2 TPY Project (2TP) 2.0


    Included in the Compilation

    Features:

    • 2 Turns Per Year
    • Properly working devastation
    • The fixes from Fixes 2.2 (but only for it's own two campaigns)
    • Dynamic Siege Upkeep
    • Permanent Watchtowers
    • Compatibility with all the standard sub-mods and the Compilation sub-mods
    • Building times increased by about 50%
    • Recruitment pool refill rates decreased by 1/3 to 2/5
    • Guild point requirements increased by almost 50%
    • Corruption increased by 5%, trade and taxes decreased by 5%
    • Hundreds of Norwegian names added
    • Many tweaks to Norway's starting conditions
    • Some buffing of the Crusader States
    • Early Era Historically Accurate Starting Positions ownership changes

    The goal of this project is to add in two complete, separate working 2 TPY campaigns, one Early, and one Late.
    They're added in as separate campaigns to reduce clutter, and to make it easy to exclude incompatible sub-mods.
    Ideas and feedback are appreciated, and any ideas that make it into the project will be credited and +repped

    Change-log
    Alpha


    • Time-scale set to 2 TPY
    • Aging script removed, as it breaks devastation, and will be made obsolete by 2 TPY

    1.0


    • Everything turn-based in the campaign script adjusted for 2 TPY

    1.1


    • Replaced the original siege upkeep script with DSU
    • Made all the sub-mods in the Compilation, and the standard sub-mods, compatible (only the sub-mods that don't have folders, and the standard sub-mods included here)
    • Put 2TP in the Compilation

    1.2


    • Building construction times increased by about 50%
      • 2->3
      • 3->4
      • 4->6
      • 5->7
      • 6->9
      • 7->10
      • 8->11
      • 9->13
      • 10->14
      • 11->15
      • 12->16


    1.3


    • Guild point requirements increased by almost 50%
      • 100->145
      • 250->350
      • 500->700

    • Unit renew rates decreased by 1/3 to 40% (lower numbers decreased less)
      • 0.1->0.066
      • 0.2->0.125
      • 0.34->0.2
      • 0.5->0.3
      • 0.67->0.4
      • 0.84-0.5
      • 1->06
      • Note: not a complete list


    1.4


    • Base farm level decreased by 1
    • Corruption increased by 15% to make up for more seldom recruiting and construction
    • Norway given Oslo
    • Oslo and Eikundarsund made somewhat more advanced
    • Lots of Norwegian names added
    • MH for 2TP no longer changes the name files (the added names have been merged into 2TP's files)

    1.5
    Early campaign:

    • Tweaking of Norway
      • Norway not having Oslo when LLP is enabled fixed
      • Norwegian diplomat moved slightly closer to Århus
      • Norwegian spy moved closer to Skara and Uppsala
      • Norway given 2 ships outside Oslo
      • Exp of Norwegian starting ships increased
      • Norwegian starting admirals given Sailor 1

    • Buffing of Crusader States
      • CS unit experience increased by 1
      • CS given a few more units at the start

    • LLP no longer modifies descr_strat (improves sub-mod compatibility)
    • Early Era Historically Accurate Starting Positions ownership changes implemented

    All campaigns:
    • Norwegian bynames having underscores in them fixed
    • Corruption increased 5% instead of 15%
    • Trade and taxes decreased by 5%

    2.0


    • Updated to work with the new SMM

    Credits


    • bane_tw for his idea to make it a separate campaign, and for his work on the Fixes collection
    • Silver Legionary for his ideas on guilds
    • Rozanov for his advice and his work on historically accurate starting positions
    • Fair Prince for his work on historically accurate starting positions
    • Seether for making many of the added Norwegian names and for making 6.3's descr_strat
    • Gracul and all the other modders involved for making 6.3


  2. #2
    Gorrrrrn's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: [WIP]2 TPY Project (2TP)

    Feel free to use any components of the the 2tpy Rozmod -
    you may find the current sett_mech file of use.
    I've just done a 2tpy EDB with replenishment rates reduced by approx to 40% of original.
    will be posting when I've done more testing.
    Last edited by Gorrrrrn; September 13, 2010 at 06:57 AM.

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  4. #4
    Meneth's Avatar I mod, therefore I am
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    Default Re: [WIP]2 TPY Project (2TP)

    Quote Originally Posted by bane_tw View Post
    One thing that comes to mind is reduce the (city) trade income
    I guess I'll have to either increase building costs, or decrease some part of income to make up for more seldom recruitment and construction.

  5. #5

    Default Re: [WIP]2 TPY Project (2TP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Meneth View Post
    I guess I'll have to either increase building costs, or decrease some part of income to make up for more seldom recruitment and construction.
    I'd go for the trade as I can't predict how the AI might react on increased costs
    From what I've seen and read money seems to be to easy to get at the moment.
    Anyways we would need to do some handsoff tests for say.. the first 50 turns? to tweak that correctly.

  6. #6
    Meneth's Avatar I mod, therefore I am
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    Default Re: [WIP]2 TPY Project (2TP)

    Quote Originally Posted by bane_tw View Post
    I'd go for the trade as I can't predict how the AI might react on increased costs
    From what I've seen and read money seems to be to easy to get at the moment.
    Anyways we would need to do some handsoff tests for say.. the first 50 turns? to tweak that correctly.
    I'll do testing (other than of specific features) later.
    I've done all the steps in the Alpha section now.
    Shouldn't be long till I can release 1.0.

  7. #7

  8. #8
    Meneth's Avatar I mod, therefore I am
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    Default Re: [WIP]2 TPY Project (2TP) 1.1

    1.1

    • Replaced the original siege upkeep script with DSU
    • Made all the sub-mods in the Compilation, and the standard sub-mods, compatible (only the sub-mods that don't have folders, and the standard sub-mods included here)
    • Put 2TP in the Compilation

  9. #9
    Gorrrrrn's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: [WIP]2 TPY Project (2TP) 1.1

    testing - you really need to test the economy out to T200 and beyond, testing just to T50 can be very misleading.
    in the past (and I haven't tested the latest economy script with or without my changes) it was only at T100 or beyond that economies collapsed
    due to increasing unit costs / upkeep and increasing building costs being greater than economic increases.

    I'm currently testing my own 2tpy EDB which has no changes to build times or costs (IIRC) SS6.3 incorporated lower building costs.
    building times are always fairly arbitrary in a game like this - it has more to do with player's patience than anything else.
    longer build times may give AI factions more cash to enable further building but only if recruitment is also cutback.
    however you need to couple that with slower population growth so settlements can build all buildings at one level before they upgrade walls.

  10. #10
    Meneth's Avatar I mod, therefore I am
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    Default Re: [WIP]2 TPY Project (2TP) 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Rozanov View Post
    I'm currently testing my own 2tpy EDB which has no changes to build times or costs (IIRC) SS6.3 incorporated lower building costs.
    building times are always fairly arbitrary in a game like this - it has more to do with player's patience than anything else.
    longer build times may give AI factions more cash to enable further building but only if recruitment is also cutback.
    however you need to couple that with slower population growth so settlements can build all buildings at one level before they upgrade walls.
    Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm planning to do.
    In what files does one change population growth, BTW? And trade income?
    I think it'll probably work better to just somewhat (20% maybe?) decrease trade income, than to increase costs. Also, it's probably much less tedious to do

  11. #11

    Default Re: [WIP]2 TPY Project (2TP) 1.1

    From what I know about what's needed for a proper 2TPY
    campaign, quite a few things need to be changed:
    -Missions: The mission conditions and rewards from "vanilla" SS6.3 would not be suitable for 2TPY.
    -Guilds: Guild requirements would need reworking, as their requirements
    are for 1TPY, not 2.
    -Units: Unit build times probably need work, in order to not flood the map with full stacks right away.

    EDIT: Forget about units for now, I just saw that you edited unit pool replenishment rates;
    that works out well too.

  12. #12
    Meneth's Avatar I mod, therefore I am
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    Default Re: [WIP]2 TPY Project (2TP) 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Legionary View Post
    From what I know about what's needed for a proper 2TPY
    campaign, quite a few things need to be changed:
    -Missions: The mission conditions and rewards from "vanilla" SS6.3 would not be suitable for 2TPY.
    -Guilds: Guild requirements would need reworking, as their requirements
    are for 1TPY, not 2.
    In what way would they need reworking?
    -Units: Unit build times probably need work, in order to not flood the map with full stacks right away.
    Replenish rates are going to be lowered about 1/3 across the board (I might make exceptions for units that already replenish very slowly)

  13. #13

    Default Re: [WIP]2 TPY Project (2TP) 1.1

    Well, from what I remember seeing in Tsarsies 2TPY mod way back when,
    he mentioned that since there are double the amount of turns, missions, guilds,
    etc., needed to be changed around in order to work with the slower campaign.


    A.K.A. slow down the acquiring of guild points, make mission conditions/rewards
    correspond with the doubled amount of turns; such as changing what would be a 15 turn mission in 1TPY, with a 2000 florin award, for example, to 20-25 turns, with a 3000-3500 or whatever amount of florins award.

  14. #14
    Meneth's Avatar I mod, therefore I am
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    Default Re: [WIP]2 TPY Project (2TP) 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Legionary View Post
    Well, from what I remember seeing in Tsarsies 2TPY mod way back when,
    he mentioned that since there are double the amount of turns, missions, guilds,
    etc., needed to be changed around in order to work with the slower campaign.


    A.K.A. slow down the acquiring of guild points, make mission conditions/rewards
    correspond with the doubled amount of turns; such as changing what would be a 15 turn mission in 1TPY, with a 2000 florin award, for example, to 20-25 turns, with a 3000-3500 or whatever amount of florins award.
    I'll do with them as with units, then, slow it by about 1/3.
    Thanks for the ideas, +rep

  15. #15

    Default Re: [WIP]2 TPY Project (2TP) 1.1

    Sounds good. I like where this is going.

  16. #16
    Meneth's Avatar I mod, therefore I am
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    Default Re: [WIP]2 TPY Project (2TP) 1.1

    1.2 will be going live soon:
    Building times increased by about 50%
    • 2->3
    • 3->4
    • 4->6
    • 5->7
    • 6->9
    • 7->10
    • 8->11
    • 9->13
    • 10->14
    • 11->15
    • 12->16

    Note: I increased the times by a bit less than 50% in the higher reaches so as to not make it dreadfully slow.

  17. #17

  18. #18
    Gorrrrrn's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: [WIP]2 TPY Project (2TP) 1.2

    another area I'm discovering is the traits system has accelerated the acquiring of traits of 2 tpy system.

    merchants get 9 or so blobs quite quickly for example.
    so need to decrease rate of getting certain traits BUT some need to be 100% of work properly.

    could be quite difficult to do (and can't do it and test existing changes at same time.)

    need to examine descr_settlement_mechanics.xml file for settlement mechanics.
    (I recommend a proper xml editor like xml marker as it does error and syntax checking.
    a visit to Mod Workshop for a discussion on sett_mech (by Tsarsies, myself and others is recommended.)

    (Note about editing values -I found that some of the population values seem to work fine until settlements starting getting squalor,
    then they can really stall.)

    SL correct about guilds but I'd rather the settlements get them quicker anyway - so I may leave for now.
    Last edited by Gorrrrrn; September 13, 2010 at 06:58 AM.

  19. #19
    Meneth's Avatar I mod, therefore I am
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    Default Re: [WIP]2 TPY Project (2TP) 1.2

    Quote Originally Posted by Rozanov View Post
    another area I'm discovering is the traits system has accelerated the acquiring of traits of r1 tpy system.

    merchants get 9 or so blobs quite quickly for example.
    so need to decrease rate of getting certain traits BUT some need to be 100% of work properly.

    could be quite difficult to do (and can't do it and test existing changes at same time.)
    I'll take a look at that later.

    need to descr_settlement_mechanics.xml file
    (I recommend a proper xml editor like xml marker as it does error and syntax checking.
    a visit to Mod Workshop for a discussion on sett_mech (by Tsarsies, myself and others is recommended.)
    I'm using Notepad++, it has syntax highlighting.
    I'll take a look at that when I'm done with recruitment pools.

    SL correct about guilds but I'd rather the settlements get them quicker anyway - so I may leave for now.
    I've increased the points it takes to get them by a bit less than 50%, shouldn't be too slow, as one gets them pretty quickly already.
    +rep for all the advice you've given.

  20. #20
    Meneth's Avatar I mod, therefore I am
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    Default Re: [WIP]2 TPY Project (2TP) 1.2

    Hmm...
    Looking in the EDB, it seems there's several entries that give refill rates of 0.000001. Is there any point at all in keeping those entries, or can I just remove them?
    Example from stone_wall:
    Code:
    recruit_pool "Urban Spear Militia"  0   0.000001   0.1  0  requires factions { milan, venice, papal_states, sicily, }
            recruit_pool "Baltic Spearmen"  0   0.000001   0.1  0  requires factions { lithuania, }
            recruit_pool "Spear Militia"  0   0.000001   0.1  0  requires factions { england, scotland, france, hre, denmark, spain, aragon, portugal, norway, }
            recruit_pool "Spear Militia"  0   0.000001   0.1  0  requires factions { teutonic_order, }
            recruit_pool "EE Spear Militia"  0   0.000001   0.1  0  requires factions { poland, russia, hungary, kievan_rus, cumans, }
            recruit_pool "Contaratoi"  0   0.000001   0.1  0  requires factions { byzantium, }
            recruit_pool "ME Spear Militia"  0   0.000001   0.1  0  requires factions { moors, egypt, turks, kwarezm, }
            
            recruit_pool "NE_Urban_Militia"  0   0.000001   0.1  0  requires factions { england, france, milan, papal_states, denmark, jerusalem, hre, venice, }
            recruit_pool "Militia Serjeants"  0   0.000001   0.1  0  requires factions { england, }
            
            recruit_pool "Toxotae"  0   0.000001   0.1  0  requires factions { byzantium, }
            recruit_pool "Archer Militia"  0   0.000001   0.1  0  requires factions { england, }
            recruit_pool "Crossbow Militia"  0   0.000001   0.1  0  requires factions { france, norway, hre, denmark, spain, aragon, portugal, teutonic_order, }
            recruit_pool "EE Archer Militia"  0   0.000001   0.1  0  requires factions { russia, kievan_rus, cumans, }
            recruit_pool "Urban Crossbow Militia"  0   0.000001   0.1  0  requires factions { milan, venice, papal_states, sicily, hungary, }

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