How lame can Kievan Rus early units be?

[Saint_of_Battle]

This must be a hard-on killer on purpose Junior/Chude militias cant hold a line for nothing.... They break upon combat almost 99,9% chance.. Archer militia can hold a line better.. And you can't field a Horse archer cavalry early on, because you have almost ZERO pop. in your castles.. And until you get some stables you get shredded by Lithuanian stacks... Jeez man this is bull****!!!




OK, thanks people, i let it out....................... HELP!!!!!!

[bɑne]

Lithuania... aren't those all those units that frighten infantry like your militias?

[meese]

I haven't played as Kiev but Novgorod is in a similar position, worse in my opinion because they don't get javelinmen.

My tip, and you're going to hate this, is to not fight. Wait until you have boyars and druzhina then maybe venture out. Just be sure to establish your borders quickly so you can just as quickly hide within them.

[JorisofHolland]

Lithuania... aren't those all those units that frighten infantry like your militias?

No. That are the more advanced Lithuanian units, not the early game ones.

Junior militia are just young men, you can't expect them to be worth a crap. I don't know about Chude militias, but they are probably similar, or just lack training and equipment (like the Juniors)
Chivalry generals can fix the low population problem.
Horse archers can also be hired IIRC, so you won't have no soldiers at all. Everything else your brilliant mind should be able to make up for.

[bɑne]

No. That are the more advanced Lithuanian units, not the early game ones.

I remember beeing able to produce Lithunian units with that effect pretty fast in my games but as its been a while I bow to your superiour knowledge.
Yet it remains that the complaint about militias beeing not worth anything has been made for lithunia as well so I remain with the question to the OP of which units he is facing with his militias.

[Sir Walter]

Use Chude militia as skirmishers and Juniors to hold lines, let General's bodyguards do the hard work till you get Druzhina and Boyars.

[Lucan]

Lolwhut? You can recruit pechengs (horse archers) from the get go. Junior militia work great in my experience, especially due to their axes, which give them a nice early-game bonus against armor. They are a bit fragile however. The Chud militia are fairly good at what they do, which is skirmishing. Use them as such. Plus, for low population: that's odd. I have a ton of people in my cities and castles. Once you get senior militia and Eastern Spearmen (at least I think the Kievians get Eastern Spearmen) you'll be set. The senior milita are great.

[Ichon]

Yeah... I haven't used Kieven Rus either but played Novgorod and Cumans a couple times each and seen all those factions rosters.

The junior militia are weak defensively but better than average on offense for an early militia. Expect the early battles to be higher than average losses but you can hire HA mercenaries fairly soon and getting 3-4 units of them can completely turn battles. Once you get a solid core of HA leave the infantry at home. Early game you can expand with 4 HA and a general. A bit later 6 HA and a general. HA are completely overwhelm low armor early troops most factions are having. Even enemy generals die to their arrows and your general can then charge and finish the job.

You can afford the HA armies even if they are mercenaries because you leave the militia at home or follow behind with a few on a 2nd general for occupation duties. Since Kieven Rus is a bit less isolated than Novgorod you might need to leave a few more units in garrison than Novgorod or Cumans do in early campaigns but depending which direction you expand(sounds like north vs Lithuania) you can likely get some alliances which the AI will honor at least thru the early turns when you are weakest.

[Anaatti]

Download RR/RC 6.2

[Lucan]

Oh wait, are you not using RR/RC OP?

If so: there's your problem.

[Saint_of_Battle]

Actually, i am using 6.2 compilation..

What i have done is to capture zhytomyr and make it a castle since it has a decent population.. The same i did with Pereyaslav.. Bryansk was converted to city and then again reconverted to build up pop. faster.. From Krasnodar i mustered a 10 card horse archer army + mercs to push away cumans to volga (havent reached it) because its gonna be easier to counter them and then up to secure the castles along volga... but i focused all my military effort east not northwest, and then lithuania came... gonna try hard man.. thanx for quick replies.. who knows maybe i write a strategy or something hehe

[Caesar Clivus]

The RR/RC forum is there for a reason. Please post all issues etc with RR/RC there.

[Kaledon]

Lithuania is pretty deadly once it gets going, before people start getting heavy units. However, it's pathetic when the early campaign starts and once people get heavy units. If you find yourself unable to deal with them, just wait them out as others said. In my case I've never had a problem with Lithuania as the Russians, partly because I tend to focus on western settlements first, which just doesn't leave them with enough areas to take to become reasonably strong. As well, there's always the chance of Vilnius being the target of a crusade. The poor lithuanians rarely get to become all that deadly, although in the game of a friend of mine they apparently took over the north and started knocking over every faction in their way. In the end it became a brutal slugfest between the Lithuanians and him. He was playing the HRE.

Anyway, as Russia I try to focus on one of two things. Gaining absurd amounts of settlements early to deal with the fact that most of the nearby settlements are crap, or focus on getting a few wealthy settlements. IE, knocking down Novgorod. Any reputation problems you incur from breaking the alliance can be dealt with by releasing all prisoners, which you probably want to do anyway for the chivalry. Just make sure to send a diplomat to do it rather than suddenly attacking. Also, make sure you have a chivalric general settled down in one of your castles reasonably early to make sure you have a good troop production center.

[JorisofHolland]

I remember beeing able to produce Lithunian units with that effect pretty fast in my games but as its been a while I bow to your superiour knowledge.
Yet it remains that the complaint about militias beeing not worth anything has been made for lithunia as well so I remain with the question to the OP of which units he is facing with his militias.

If you can get a city (*ahem* Novgorod *ahem*) you'll be able to produce a unit (Giltine's Chosen IIRC) that causes fear. Don't remember any other ones from when I was writing my guide, except Dievas Guard, of course.

Actually, i am using 6.2 compilation..

That's just another name for RR/RC, right?

[Kaledon]

Followers of Perkunas can be recruited from large towns with the second level of the Altar of Perkunas. As I recall, the cavalry that cause fear require a castle. As well, the general's bodyguard has the cause fear in infantry ability.

[Saint_of_Battle]

Compilation or rc/rr i don't know man, there are many of them, i can hardly recognize each other

Anyway after repeling some lithuanian attacks on Kiev and Zhytomyr, i got pissed, and took the fight to lithuania... Lithuanians are smart.. they drive some stacks into your lands and just walk in your territory waiting for you to weaken a settlement.. a wrong move and this "lost" army storms you.. But if you bring larger forces to counter them, (at least for me) they back up.. Since i invaded lithuania, they backed up to defend themselves..

Even though now i have berdiche and senior rus militia, i still doubt about their skill ( yes i know they are militia )... gonna test them throughouly...

About the far east: My HA rule the steppes!

I guess i will update soon

[Caesar Clivus]

Compilation or rc/rr i don't know man, there are many of them, i can hardly recognize each other

For those of you playing at home, there is the RR/RC compilation and 6.2. There is no 6.2 compilation.