Clearing Up Misconceptions about IRAN

[Fardin]

Some pics from concerts:

Mr.Zarif in National Orchestra

 

[snuggans]

butchered the post, delete

 

[Placeholder]

Not wanting to behave cruelly or mock you like some others here, but here is a serious and honest reply/opinion from the view of a secular and liberal westerner:

I know you're trying hard (especially the young people) over there, but reality is reality and America is going to look out for American interests. As long as you keep treating free speech (like the cartoons) and sexual orientation or even sexual activity in such an authoritarian fashion, you're not going to get much sympathy from anyone in the western world.

And no respect is deserved for theocracies of any kind anyway, humanitarian crimes or not. Every religion claims to be the religion of peace and mercy. They're all misused for authority. They're all garbage in the end. Right now Iran is in the hands of a garbage government. Say what you will about our ruthless tactics to maintain American global supremacy, but we've got you doing horrible stuff, far worse stuff red-handed and out in the open. It's not even a close comparison.

In short, quit being an authoritarian, anti-democratic, and theocratic antagonist to our planet's free peoples. Then people will quit treating you like one. No amount of pretty photographs will change this. Words are wind. Change your country and drop the religious government, or expect no media or military mercy from the rest of the world in the future.

To be clear, the hypocrisy and economic/strategic favoritism towards regimes like Saudi Arabia is certainly something we're conscious about on our end too, and they don't deserve a free pass either. But it doesn't change the reality of Iran's current positions or the fact that said positions oppose our interests and vision for our species' future.

If Iran's citizens continued to shift and change the country from within, would giving them time to do so be preferable to war? Absolutely and certainly. A lot of us aren't like the warmongering Republican-types you hear from, but at the same time if push comes to shove we're going to be prepared to do what we need to do to safeguard secular freedom on this planet.

 

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

I have a theory that no one believes.
In non-Western countries the rural population and the urban populations are very different. The people that live in the country side tend to be uneducated and even think differently than the people in the cities. The people living in the rural country side are also much less westernized.
Is this true?

From my experiences traveling throughout South America this also appears to be the case.


Also do you want a direct Democracy the kind that we have in the West? What is the opinion of most people in Iran?

 

[Abdülmecid I]

Say what you will about our ruthless tactics to maintain American global supremacy, but we've got you doing horrible stuff, far worse stuff red-handed and out in the open. It's not even a close comparison.

The Islamic Republic of Iran has been caught doing worse stuff than the Trail of Tears, the installation of brutal dictatorships, the invasion of foreign countries and the Orange Agent? News to me, could you share some specific examples?

In short, quit being an authoritarian, anti-democratic, and theocratic antagonist to our planet's free peoples. Then people will quit treating you like one. No amount of pretty photographs will change this. Words are wind. Change your country and drop the religious government, or expect no media or military mercy from the rest of the world in the future.

Let's not pretend that American animosity towards Iran has anything to do with human rights and the theocratic elements in its government. The real reason is that the two states have conflicting interests in the Middle East and that there's some sort of bitterness, since the time the American companies lost their special privilege of exploiting Iran's natural resources at the expense of the Iranian people. Meanwhile, the US were best friends with the overthrown imperial regime, to which Khomeini paled in comparison, in terms of ruthlessness and sanguinary tendencies, not to mention, as you already said, the case of Saudi Arabia. After all, no matter how many times the crane image will be spammed, advertisement for executioners, "extra talented at amputating and beheading, as religious functionaries" is slightly more shocking:

Spoiler

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...rtises-eight-new-executioners-beheadings-soar

If Iran's citizens continued to shift and change the country from within, would giving them time to do so be preferable to war? Absolutely and certainly. A lot of us aren't like the warmongering Republican-types you hear from, but at the same time if push comes to shove we're going to be prepared to do what we need to do to safeguard secular freedom on this planet.

I am certain that the Iranian people appreciates immensely your generosity, for giving them some time to readjust their internal affairs to your preference, before Its Majesty, the American government, loses its patience and decides to teach these brown natives the advantages of democracy, by force. Statements like those make me wonder how can it be possible for the "warmongering Republicans" to be even more hawkish...

Y'all need Mazda.

No, their handling is unreliable. After all, they already have IKCO and SAIPA.

Is this true?

It is true, peasants always tended to be less educated and more conservative and religious than the city folk, but I would say that this is a global phenomenon and not limited only to the east. Even in the latest elections and referendums, any map will show that older parties and more conservative ideologies are always more prevalent in the countryside and the smaller urban centers.

 

[Bethrezen]

[...] but at the same time if push comes to shove we're going to be prepared to do what we need to do to safeguard secular freedom on this planet.

I'm sorry, is this line from Independence Day: Resurgence, or something? Or maybe a superhero movie?

 

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

I would say though that in the Western countries the gap between the peasants and the urban populations tends to be much smaller than pretty much everywhere else. With the exception being urban areas that are immediately affected by a large amount of peasants coming in as workers such as the case with China. In that case the gap is tiny as the local urban people are almost one in the same as the peasants.

 

[zarmehr]

I am really proud of you brother fardin for writing this.May allah bless your words.

I always get surprised by those who claim to enlightenment, but they do not feel ashamed when they insult the beliefs of others

 

[Fardin]

I have a theory that no one believes.
In non-Western countries the rural population and the urban populations are very different. The people that live in the country side tend to be uneducated and even think differently than the people in the cities. The people living in the rural country side are also much less westernized.
Is this true?

yes.all of it was true except education

Also do you want a direct Democracy the kind that we have in the West? What is the opinion of most people in Iran?

Have you studied about the IRI governments democracy system?It's Islamic form of democracy in Iran.
and about the peoples opinion about being like west is about:70%no-30%yes.
I should say we love Islam and we love our country.But in this world if you want a direct democracy you should be the servant of USA like what happened in Japan after WW2.USA will continue to Interference in the countries for every little reason often made by themselves.in shiism we do not accept any humiliation.Imam Hussain said in Ashura: Death with dignity is better than living with disgrace.

 

[Fardin]

I want a fair and good and polite debate about Islam and Iran's politics.with reasons and without insulting our countries and religions.
If any one is ready just inform me!Ask everything you found wrong about Shia Islam and Iran.But if you do not know any thing about Islam and Iran And you have just watched TV and news and of course super hero movies please be quiet and study more about Islam and Iran or at least the links I gave to the other guys!

I am really proud of you brother fardin for writing this.Great job man.

Thanks Bro!

 

[Exarch]

the iranians keep promising to wipe israel off the map but every day i look at google earth and i still see israel on the map.

what gives?

 

[Fardin]

the iranians keep promising to wipe israel off the map but every day i look at google earth and i still see israel on the map.

what gives?

If we wanted we would do it right now with our missiles but we do not target innocent people unlike other countries who claim the freedom and Human rights. when we say we'll wipe off Israel we mean the government and same for other countries.Those lands you see on the google earth belongs to the Palestinians who were forced to leave their Homes and lands.Islam forbids conquering lands.

 

[Roboute Guilliman]

My mother is origianlly from Iran, whose family left during the revolution to the west. I am wondering, if things have turned to the better than they once were. Years of forced isolation and hateful speech against western values which are returning slowly despite the so called 'islamic' revolution. My country is getting political refugees, not only from Syria, Afghanistan but also Iran, still today. Making a thread about how wonderful things are going politically is just a farce.
I accept Iran is to a degree better than Saudi Arabia and most states in the middle east. But coming here and telling me that Irans political parties are freely elected is a joke.
If I came back tomorrow to Iran and wanted to start a political party rejecting Islamic and theological leadership, which ruined the once most powerful country in the middle east, I would be a political prisoner.

 

[Fardin]

My mother is origianlly from Iran, whose family left during the revolution to the west. I am wondering, if things have turned to the better than they once were. Years of forced isolation and hateful speech against western values which are returning slowly despite the so called 'islamic' revolution. My country is getting political refugees, not only from Syria, Afghanistan but also Iran, still today. Making a thread about how wonderful things are going politically is just a farce.
I accept Iran is to a degree better than Saudi Arabia and most states in the middle east. But coming here and telling me that Irans political parties are freely elected is a joke.
If I came back tomorrow to Iran and wanted to start a political party rejecting Islamic and theological leadership, which ruined the once most powerful country in the middle east, I would be a political prisoner.

Most of the people who fled Iran have your opinion but the poor people who remained in Iran had tasted the dictators oppressions.Rich class of society were Opposed to Revolution because they had nothing to do with protests because of their full bellies.You say electing in Iran is a joke so what's your proof?
that 8 years of war ruined the country not the leadership.You said powerful Iran You mean from the military aspect?That dictator sold the country to the west to Gain some chaffy reputation so when he fled before revolution no country supported him because he was not useful anymore! Do you know what is capitulation? Just read about Iran in WW1 and WW2!Do you know many people died because of the famine that the soviet and British and USA soldiers brought to us?9 million people just in WW2.Do you know how many women from my country raped by western soldiers and we could not even punish them because of the capitulation law?But now no country dares to attack Iran.We have learned from the history and we will make sure it won't happen again.Iran already is the most powerful country in the region!How you can compare the power of Iran with middle east?you think that Arabs and Pakistan is stronger than Iran?If they were strong they would have prevented those terrorists who are walking freely in their countries.
And I won't deny that you'll go to jail for that reason you said.

Go see the ranking of Iran's army!But I must say It's the ranking of regular Armies and it does not Include IRGC.The IRGC is ten times bigger and more powerful than IRI Army.

 

[Roboute Guilliman]

Most of the people who fled Iran have your opinion but the poor people who remained in Iran had tasted the dictator.Rich class of society were Opposed to Revolution.You say electing in Iran is a joke so what's your proof?
that 8 years of war ruined the country not the leadership.You said powerful Iran You mean from the military aspect?That dictator sold the country to the west to Gain some chaffy reputation so when he fled before revolution no country supported him because he was not useful anymore! Go see the ranking of Iran's army!But I must say It's the ranking of regular Armies and it does not Include IRGC.The IRGC is ten times bigger and more powerful than IRI Army.

Iranian army. Lol. Everybody in the region is using better equipment, because they can buy it from western and Russian allies. Irans military is the same it was 30 years ago, because they got no strong allies. Why? Because the leadership are a bunch of trolls. And tell me please, who intentionally weakened the Shahs army during the revolution out of fear? You were just begging for Saddam, who had an eye on Iran, to invade. The Shah left because he maybe didn't want to harm the people with a bloody civil war. I am not going into Mullah war tactics, like children playing minesweeper.

I know plenty of Iranians, who are doing everything to get an EU citizenship. Says a lot about the current state.

You live in the shadow of the country it once was, destroyed by illiterate fools and call it great now. Being a western ally doesn't make you a puppet state. But when I see Iranian presidents rambling off about foreign policy and describing the west, it has a lot of similarity with the muppet show.

 

[Fardin]

Iranian army. Lol. Everybody in the region is using better equipment, because they can buy it from western and Russian allies. Irans military is the same it was 30 years ago, because they got no strong allies. Why? Because the leadership are a bunch of trolls. And tell me please, who intentionally weakened the Shahs army during the revolution out of fear? You were just begging for Saddam, who had an eye on Iran, to invade. The Shah left because he maybe didn't want to harm the people with a bloody civil war. I am not going into Mullah war tactics, like children playing minesweeper.

I know plenty of Iranians, who are doing everything to get an EU citizenship. Says a lot about the current state.

You live in the shadow of the country it once was, destroyed by illiterate fools and call it great now. Being a western ally doesn't make you a puppet state. But when I see Iranian presidents rambling off about foreign policy and describing the west, it has a lot of similarity with the muppet show.

What do you mean by better equipment?Because we do not make films it does not mean we do not have good equipments.If you know farsi I'll send you some links to see Iran's equipments.what do you mean by begging Saddam?
Shah left the Iran to avoid a civil war??that was really funny. do you his prime minister who stayed in Iran killed how many of Iranians by barrage of bullets?Just study about what happened in 15 Khordad of 1342.
The west's propaganda affect both Iranians and the foreigners.Some of Iranians think that there is heaven beyond the walls but they do not know there is nothing more there but free sexual relationships and foreigners think Iran is nothing but slums.Iranian president Rouhani is a complete idiot who trusted the west.we did all we had to do in the pact but they did not do even one single positive move.
The story of Iran is just like the Libya and that idiot Ghazzafi! He trusted the west and gave his nuclear power to get rid of sanctions but nothing happened after that.some months later they said give up your missiles and military power so we'll remove sanctions and that idiot did it again but nothing changed.some years later west unleashed chaos in Libya then they are killing each other till now!And of course the western governments are looting their oil easily now!These events will happen in Iran if this president remains on power.

I said to every one ask what's wrong with Iran and they asked and I answered.
I've edited the recent post of mine read it again

 

[empr guy]

Haha what? The Iranian army no doubt has great morale, but their equipment is mostly whatever they bought off the Americans in the 70's, Soviet stuff or their knock off versions of soviet stuff. I'm sure the infantry stuff works great but the tanks, air craft, and navy would be considered antiques everywhere else.


Also going back to my previous question, let's say that I accept "Mohammad only conquered in self defense". But what is the theological basis for conquest being forbidden in the first place?

 

[Roboute Guilliman]

Please keep the curtains closed then by voting the next religious nut job in your free elections. You get what you deserve.

 

[Condottiere 40K]

If Iran had free and fair elections elections, the clergy as an institution would be kicked out of power and the Revolutionary Guard would find itself dissolved, or volunteered in it's entirety to the Syrian struggle.

 

[Fardin]

Also going back to my previous question, let's say that I accept "Mohammad only conquered in self defense". But what is the theological basis for conquest being forbidden in the first place?

Your definition is close to reality.Conquests is forbidden but you are allowed: 1.when any country attacks you.you have the right to attack that country and eliminate it's government 2.when a non muslim country attacks a muslim country you have the right to eliminate it's government 3.when a non muslim country oppresses the other muslims you have the right to eliminate it's government.And attacking civilians and looting and forcing them to Islam is forbidden according to Mr.Khamenei's Fatwa(order) and Orders of God in Quran.
If you want to know more I'll bring the exact part that this is mentioned in Quran.

 

[Fardin]

Iran's stealth fighter.

Iranian Sniper rifles

Fastest Armed boats in the world(80knots)

Fateh assault rifle

under ground missile silos

Iranian RQ 170
I know it's not related to this thread but I thought this was a misconseption too.

 

[Abdülmecid I]

The Iraqi invasion did indeed help the radical clergy to remain in power. But I can't see why this is the fault of Khomeini. The Iraqis invaded with the intention of violating at least the Algiers Accords, which were ironically negotiated by Saddam himself (back then, Saddam was not the absolute ruler of Iraq) and Iran had every right to defend its territorial sovereignty. True, as it always happens in these cases, the radical revolutionaries were strengthened, when faced a common foreign aggressor, in spite of Saddam's wishful thinking that Iran would immediately collapse. But again, Iran is not to be blamed for the Iraqi leadership's complete inability to properly estimate the internal olitical affairs of Iran.

The Shah left because he maybe didn't want to harm the people with a bloody civil war.

Oh, that is golden. Well, the Shah apparently was not so scared about the possibility of a civil war, when he overthrew Mosaddegh or when he imprisoned and tortured everyone belonging to the opposition, from communists and liberals to Shia fundamentalists, for daring to disapprove of his tyrannical tactics. Could it be because during these events, there was not the most massive revolution ever recorded going on, which presented to the Shah the somewhat worrying prospect of sharing the fate of his SAVAK chiefs? Reza Pahlavi ran for his life, which was the most sensible thing to do or otherwise he would have been arrested and judged for his crimes against the Iranian people.

If I came back tomorrow to Iran and wanted to start a political party rejecting Islamic and theological leadership, which ruined the once most powerful country in the middle east, I would be a political prisoner.

Modern Iran was never the most powerful state in the Middle East, not even under the Shah. But even if it was, why does it matter? People justifiably tend to care more about their quality of life, democratic elections and protection from the para-military activities of the secret police. Being given that, despite the most sincere efforts of the Assembly of Experts and the Guardian Council, all these aspects have been radically improved since the times of the Shah, I understand why the vast majority of the Iranians despise the imperial regime.

 

[athanaric]

I always get surprised by those who claim to enlightenment, but they do not feel ashamed when they insult the beliefs of others

We respect individual human beings, not beliefs or groups. We "believe" only in things that can be proven and understood. Religious and/or political belief, on the other hand, is just an excuse for people to act out their worst instincts. The evidence suggests that all religions and gods were invented by men, not the other way round.

Anyway, why do you feel the need to believe in an invisible Arab in the sky? Are you familiar with how Islam was introduced in Iran, or does the IRI school curriculum skip that part of history?

 

[Roboute Guilliman]

The Iraqi invasion did indeed help the radical clergy to remain in power. But I can't see why this is the fault of Khomeini. The Iraqis invaded with the intention of violating at least the Algiers Accords, which were ironically negotiated by Saddam himself (back then, Saddam was not the absolute ruler of Iraq) and Iran had every right to defend its territorial sovereignty. True, as it always happens in these cases, the radical revolutionaries were strengthened, when faced a common foreign aggressor, in spite of Saddam's wishful thinking that Iran would immediately collapse. But again, Iran is not to be blamed for the Iraqi leadership's complete inability to properly estimate the internal olitical affairs of Iran. Oh, that is golden. Well, the Shah apparently was not so scared about the possibility of a civil war, when he overthrew Mosaddegh or when he imprisoned and tortured everyone belonging to the opposition, from communists and liberals to Shia fundamentalists, for daring to disapprove of his tyrannical tactics. Could it be because during these events, there was not the most massive revolution ever recorded going on, which presented to the Shah the somewhat worrying prospect of sharing the fate of his SAVAK chiefs? Reza Pahlavi ran for his life, which was the most sensible thing to do or otherwise he would have been arrested and judged for his crimes against the Iranian people. Modern Iran was never the most powerful state in the Middle East, not even under the Shah. But even if it was, why does it matter? People justifiably tend to care more about their quality of life, democratic elections and protection from the para-military activities of the secret police. Being given that, despite the most sincere efforts of the Assembly of Experts and the Guardian Council, all these aspects have been radically improved since the times of the Shah, I understand why the vast majority of the Iranians despise the imperial regime.

How the hell is a revolution a democratic election. The Islamists werent alone, they were working together with the leftist groups. What happened to them? Branded as Iranian traitors helping Saddam. Any nation needing a political police/military force, is not democratic by any means. Only approved parties are allowed to be established. Yes all this is very democratic indeed for a turk, keep going down the route with Erdogan and maybe you might hit Irans lows. So sad how the potential of both nations is thrown into the trash.
Many people have lost their jobs and been killed on simple baseless accusations of being SAVAK. You worked for the government, a co worker wanted to get rid of you, he just mentioned you were SAVAK. An officer in the army, not being revolutionary enough, you get hanged. I got countless more. And I am talking about family relatives. But its all good if it was to help the poor. The poor are doing great now! Look at Rafsanjani! Didn't know that studying the Quran in Qom can make you such a rich man. The rich are now just the clergy. The poor are still the poor. Simple freedoms have disappeared. Opium addiction is reaching new highs. The complete industry is rusting down. People with degrees are leaving and hoping to stay in Europe or the US. Awesome nation!

The nuclear deal Iran is getting, was not even a question back then, Iran would be a nuclear power by today. US was even licencing weaponry(tanks, missiles, jets) to be manufactured in Iran. What remains of it is what you see the Islamic Republic, claiming as their own deeds.

 

[Fardin]

We respect individual human beings, not beliefs or groups. We "believe" only in things that can be proven and understood. Religious and/or political belief, on the other hand, is just an excuse for people to act out their worst instincts. The evidence suggests that all religions and gods were invented by men, not the other way round.

Anyway, why do you feel the need to believe in an invisible Arab in the sky? Are you familiar with how Islam was introduced in Iran, or does the IRI school curriculum skip that part of history?

We know our history far better than you!As I said before the false successors of the prophet made those horrible mistakes.
We accepted Islam because it was a perfect religion for the human beings.
I said I want a fair and polite debate.If you want to do it so please do not insult.

 

[Fardin]

Some video clips made by tourists who visited Iran:
http://www.aparat.com/v/vUeYg
[url]http://www.aparat.com/v/CiqSn

[/URL]

 

[Condottiere 40K]

12th Imam
The 12th Imam: What Is An Imam?
What is the 12th Imam? According to Islamic belief, an Imam is an anointed leader or ruler. Especially among the Shia beliefs an Imam is thought (though not required), to be a prayer leader or cleric when the word is capitalized. Sunnis too believe an Imam may be a prophet; Shiites believe not all prophets can be an Imam but an Imam can also be a prophet. An Imam is said to be anointed by Allah and a perfect example of leading mankind in every way.

The Shiite interpretation is that only Allah can appoint an Imam and no man has the power to do so. The 12th Imam is said to be a descendent of the Prophet Muhammad, having divine status as did each of this succession of sons. The 12th Imam is also called the Hidden Imam and the Mahdi (guided one).

The 12th Imam: Who Is The 12th Imam?
Within the Shiite, (which is predominate in Iran), it is prophesied that there is a coming 12th Imam who is the great spiritual savior. This Imam is named Abu al-Qasim Muhammad or also called Muhammad al Mahdi. He is said to have been born the son of the 11th Imam, Hasan Al-Askari and his wife, the granddaughter of an Emperor. There are conflicting statements of her name being either Fatima or Nargis Khatoon.

Most accounts of the story say that al Mahdi went into hiding as a child around the age of 5 years (about 13th Century). It said he has been ‘in hiding’ in caves ever since but will supernaturally return just before the Day of Judgment. According to the Hadith the criteria for the Hidden Imam are:

He will be a descendant of Muhammad and the son of Fatima
Will have a broad forehead and pointed nose
Will return just before the end of the world
His appearance will be preceded by a number of prophetic events during 3 years of horrendous world chaos, tyranny and oppression
Will escape from Madina to Mekkah, thousands will pledge allegiance to him
Will rule over the Arabs and the world for 7 years
Will eradicate all tyranny and oppression bringing harmony and total peace
Will lead a prayer in Mekkah which Jesus will be at his side and follow in
Remarkably, the 12th Imam theory plays heavily into the world’s current concerns with Iran. The Shiite Muslim President of Iran, Ahmadinejad, is deeply committed to the Islamic Messiah, al Mahdi. There have been many through the years claiming to be the Hidden Imam but Ahmadinejad believes he is yet to come. He claims that he is to personally prepare the world for the coming Mahdi. In order to save the world, it must be in a state of chaos and subjugation. Ahmadinejad claims he was “directed by Allah to pave the way for the glorious appearance of the Mahdi”. This apocalyptic directive includes some very scary proclamations.
The 12th Imam: Why Is This Especially Important Now?
While Christians look for Jesus’ 2nd coming, the Jews await the Messiah and Muslims await the 12th Imam. However, of the three, Allah’s designated Mahdi is the only one who demands a violent path to conquer the world. Mr. Ahmadinejad, and his cabinet, say they have a ‘signed contract’ with al Mahdi in which they pledge themselves to his work. What does this work involve? In light of concerns over Iran’s nuclear capabilities, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has reportedly stated Israel should be wiped off the map. He spoke to the United Nations in September ’05. During that speech he claims to have been in an aura of light and felt a change in the atmosphere during which time no one present could blink their eyes. Iran’s PM is also said to have spoken in apocalyptic terms and seems to relish conflict with the West whom he calls the Great Satan. This is while he proclaims he must prepare the world for the coming Mahdi by way of a world totally under Muslim control. He is working hard to bring about the world-wide horrors that must be in place for their al Mahdi to bring peace.

 

[Fardin]

Yes most of your words were true but:
1. Imams are chosen by Allah.They can not be prophet because a prophet takes his massages from the Angel named Gabriel.this is the difference between Imams and the Prophets.
2.Ahmadinejad has not signed any contracts with Imam Al Ghaaem Al Mahdi.This is a complete lie from you or from him.Many rulers claimed they are Imam Mahdi or they are related to him to use the people of Iran's beliefs in their own advantage like Shah Ismaeel The founder of Safavids Dynasty and so on.
3.Imam Mahdi will return when there is chaos in every part of the world specially middle east.But this chaos will be made by a man named Sofiani and the Dajjal the one eyed man.When he returns he will unite the Islamic nations and the whole world and of course there will be wars with evils from mankind.
4.When the Ahmadinejad says: we should prepare world and ourselves for his return; he does not mean we should unleash chaos in the world it is so ridiculous!He means we must increase our power and belief to stand beside Imam Mahdi to unite the whole world and bring peace to every where.
5.Most of world will be united without any wars when they see Jesus By Imam Mahdi's side and there will be wars as I said.
6.He will return when his 313 elite soldiers are ready and its predicted by Imam Ali that the most of them are from cities and villages of Iran.They will all gather in Mecca when Imam Mahdi announces his uprising and Jesus will say prayers behind him in Mecca.

 

[athanaric]

We know our history far better than you!

I doubt that. I studied it, as did several other people on this forum.

As I said before the false successors of the prophet made those horrible mistakes.

I think it was rather Mohammad and his friends who hated Iran and Iranians. They provided the excuses and "justification" for those atrocities.

We accepted Islam because it was a perfect religion for the human beings.

And because the bearers of the same perfect religion murdered, raped, and enslaved your countrymen until the rest of them submitted.

I said I want a fair and polite debate.If you want to do it so please do not insult.

I haven't insulted anyone yet, except perhaps those who teach history in Iran. Things that don't exist can't be insulted.

 

[Fardin]

I doubt that. I studied it, as did several other people on this forum.

I have read dozens of books about it.you can not claim that!and they are already in my library.so please...

I think it was rather Mohammad and his friends who hated Iran and Iranians. They provided the excuses and "justification" for those atrocities.

I accept that the Arabs hated Iran because they were colonies of Iranian Empires for many years.But the Prophet and Imam Ali are different from them. they had some companions and friends of Iranians like Salman Farsi who helped the Prophet in "Ahzab" war with battle plans.And Ghanbar who was a slave that Imam Ali liberated him and then he became his friend and companion.

And because the bearers of the same perfect religion murdered, raped, and enslaved your countrymen until the rest of them submitted.

yes yes, you are right. we hate those who did it and we are fallowing the one who stopped it(Imam Ali). We discovered the real Islam from his actions and behaviors towards people.The Arabs who conquered Iran used to call and humiliate Iranians with "Ajam" word but Imam Ali said: All of the humans are equal to God and banned these things.
So we know some history.
here you can find out more about our first Imam: http://en.wikishia.net/view/Imam_'Ali_b._Abi_Talib_(a)

I haven't insulted anyone yet, except perhaps those who teach history in Iran. Things that don't exist can't be insulted.

You said:The evidence suggests that all religions and gods were invented by men, not the other way round.
You mean our Prophet is a liar and a pretender.OK then what's your proof and evidence?