Population

[Armeniacus]

How can you see how many population in numbers there are in the city in attila total war because growth buildings must have some effect..... How many people there are in the city in attila total war.....

[miguelfadous]

I don't think that's an available feature (to be able to see population number) in total war Attila

[johnmck]

It's an invisible magical stat

[PeonKing]

You're both wrong, population is the stat that allows you to open new building slots in each province/horde. When you select a settlement in a province, population is in the top left corner of the building ribbon that appears at the bottom of the screen. It's represented by a number and a green bar. When the green bar fills up you get another population point. If you look at that screenshot, it's a horde but it's the same basic UI interface as a province. Top left corner of the ribbon labelled 'The Tree Breakers' is a little icon that looks like 3 people, a number, and a green bar. That's your population. Sorry if the screenshot is low quality, I just grabbed it off a website.

[johnmck]

Ok so it's not invisible, it's a magical bar that goes across the screen. I stand corrected

[PeonKing]

Ok so it's not invisible, it's a magical bar that goes across the screen. I stand corrected

Not really sure what qualifies it being called magical? You can see the number breakdown if you hover over it.

[johnmck]

Um its a magical number because what does that number have to do with population. 1 2 3 4 5, is that in hundreds thousands, millions, billions? In the earlier games there was an actual population number that went up or down based on turn and units recruited.

[Fanest]

In the earlier games there was an actual population number that went up or down based on turn and units recruited.

only RTW1 had that system, since then manpower was completely abandoned

[Anna_Gein]

Not really. MTW 2 had it. ETW and NTW too.

[johnmck]

Ya anna gein is right here, although in medieval 2 recruiting units doesnt reduce your population (just tried it), but the population does go up each turn, and is an actual value such as 3953. So for me the greatest realism was in rome 1 where there was a manpower system, and as we've gone on its gotten progessively more gamey each game.

[Fanest]

Not really. MTW 2 had it. ETW and NTW too.

none of these had it in the sense of RTW1 so inform yourself

population in MTW2 was required for leveling up your settlement so its basically the same thing as now, as for NTW and ETW in these games population was completely irrelevant

[johnmck]

I just explained the difference in my last post lol. Its not basically the same thing as now, there they had an actual number that you could see going up that actually represented the total number of people in the city. Not some bar that counts from 1 to 5, with each tier being separated by 100 somethings. MTW 2 is much closer to rtw1 than it is to any games after it.

[Fanest]

Its not basically the same thing as now, there they had an actual number that you could see going up that actually represented the total number of people in the city.

they were still "magical" numbers and not actual numbers for example Constantinople had close to 1M population in early medieval times in game it has i think 30k

anyway UI is supposedly very moddable so i think its possible to and a few zeros there to satisfy your needs

as for me until CA wont make a proper manpower system i dont really care about this, after all city growth is one of the least important mechanics in the game

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

Actually, ETW does have a manpower system, I believe.

I remember making a unit with 1000 men in it, and recruiting too many of them in a settlement actually drained the population.

I assume it simply never happens in an average game because you never recruit tens of thousands of men from a single settlement fast enough for it to drain noticeably.

[veverčák]

Guys with all respect to all iterations of TW, but what is point of this discussion? Victoria 1 and 2 have population system with population being divided into social classes (Aristocrats, Capitalists, Clergy, Farmers, Clerks....) every one with specific purpose (Capitalist owns factories, Aristocrats invest in raw materials - farming, mining etc.), nationality, political views and faith. This is in my humble opinion a population system.

For example of working manpower system could be EU III and IV. Here your nation have pool of available recruits depending on development of your provinces, buildings, national bonuses and unlocked National Ideas. Every time you are recruiting regiments every regiment drain 1000 recruits. Another way how to drain your manpower pool is to suffer attrition during sieges, marching through insufficient lands or being stationary in such provinces (every province has its own supply limit - how many troops it can sustain).

So does TW games have/had population/manpower system up to this date? No, not really. It got some numbers which acts like threshold for development of the city or some sort of gimmick for better feel. Do we need a population system and or manpower system in TW games? Not really. IMHO main focus of the TW games were RTS battles. Unlike Paradox games listed above the key component was always war and conquest. Manpower and population system in Paradox games serves mostly as break against the conquest. It is better to see the new political system being develop further then to try simulate the social classes of ancient Rome.

[Garensterz]

For example of working manpower system could be EU III and IV. Here your nation have pool of available recruits depending on development of your provinces, buildings, national bonuses and unlocked National Ideas. Every time you are recruiting regiments every regiment drain 1000 recruits. Another way how to drain your manpower pool is to suffer attrition during sieges, marching through insufficient lands or being stationary in such provinces (every province has its own supply limit - how many troops it can sustain).

So does TW games have/had population/manpower system up to this date? No, not really. It got some numbers which acts like threshold for development of the city or some sort of gimmick for better feel. Do we need a population system and or manpower system in TW games? Not really. IMHO main focus of the TW games were RTS battles. Unlike Paradox games listed above the key component was always war and conquest. Manpower and population system in Paradox games serves mostly as break against the conquest. It is better to see the new political system being develop further then to try simulate the social classes of ancient Rome.

Actually, Rome 1's manpower system acts a bit similar to EU IV. Manpower also depends on city management and the number of cities in you empire, however instead of having global manpower system in EU4 what you have here is a separated manpower in each of your settlements, which is reasonable for me because Rome 1 has a more different army logistics than in EU4. That is, you transfer them manually from one place to another. Since siege battles and land battles in Total Wars represents quite differently from EU IV but they still have a similar effect on manpower when reinforcing units. When replenishing or reinforcing, your manpower gets deducted depending on how many casualties you took on that certain battle. (correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a while) Recruiting also acts this way, when you recruit a unit composes of 160 men then the same amount of numbers will also deduct on your manpower pool or simply, the population in your settlement.

The thing with manpower and population system on old Total War games, they act similar to vicky 2 and Eu4 games, It's just designed in a different way. But of course, population and manpower system in Vicky 2 surely is more detailed than those games. On the other hand, manpower system in Total War also gave a decent role in terms of gameplay and challenge. There was a time when I was playing Koinon Hellenon in RS2 (mod), which only composes of 3 to 5 settlements in southern greece. Rome declared war on me in a early - middle phase, this is the phase where Rome has captured most of France and I'm still down to the same amount of settlements. My war towards Rome is somewhat balance at first since I have a decent amount of army stacks and some Allies by my side. However, I simply lost the war due to lack of population in my settlements, the AI Rome just keeps on sending army stacks over and over to Greece until my manpower dries out. So population in Total War made sense, at least a bit.

[Tyso3]

I remember on Rome 1 using 'Migration' Armies from my major cities to newly conquered provinces.

You would get a 20 stack of peasents and disband them in the city walls, thus increasing the population of the new settlement and allowing you to upgrade and recruit.

[veverčák]

I disagree. I did played Rome I for some time (200 hours give or take) and I did not notice this incredible deep system. In EU IV/III this whole manpower system is integral part of the game with possible way to use gold instead of manpower via hiring mercenaries.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

That applies to Rome I as well. Hiring mercenaries does not use population from nearby settlements.

It's impossible to play the game without noticing the system. Population was a huge part of the older games, because you needed to reach a certain population threshold before your city could increase in size.

[Lugotorix]

I remember on Rome 1 using 'Migration' Armies from my major cities to newly conquered provinces.

You would get a 20 stack of peasents and disband them in the city walls, thus increasing the population of the new settlement and allowing you to upgrade and recruit.

lol, I remember this- seems like a lifetime ago