How to get AI to declare war on human?

[Tariq]

I have played 3 campaigns with 1.04a (latest one):

- Macedons Hard with no other mods then DEI
- Rome VH no other mods then DEI
- Hayasdan VH DEI + Better Agressive CAI

In all 3 campaigns , not even once AI declared war one me,if i discount some psychotic war declarations like Cimbri declaring war on my Hayasdan even though we are map apart and both green to each other only to pay me for peace in next turn I did take sweet time and conquer slowly, without have any significant armies and still to no avail.

Any suggestions, extra CAI's to try , etc..?

[OverLORDY]

Try playing Odryssian Kingdom. Watch as everyone of your neighbors dogpile you.

[Purplzhazy]

I play with the Better CAI Mod for DeI, and my campaign as Macedonia in Hard is insane. It's the start and I'm already in war with Odryssan, Sparta, Knossos, Pergamos, Epiros and some others barbarians.
PS : I have not attack anyone.
Try this submod.

[zombieflanders]

I have yet to play a game on 1.0x on H or VH without getting DOW within the first 10-20 turns:

Lusitania (attacked by Arevaci)
Epirus (attacked by Macedon/Athens and Rome)
Parthia (attacked by Massagatae and Arachosia)
Arverni (attacked by Cantabri)
Carthage (attacked by Syracuse)

[Tariq]

I play with the Better CAI Mod for DeI, and my campaign as Macedonia in Hard is insane. It's the start and I'm already in war with Odryssan, Sparta, Knossos, Pergamos, Epiros and some others barbarians.
PS : I have not attack anyone.
Try this submod.

Well i did play Hayasdan on VH with same mod (as i listed in the 1st post) and didn't have any wars, other then ones that i have started...

As for the Macedons, i have played them on Hard (also listed) and no wars were initiated. similar was with Vanilla and 0.96 , if war didn't start in first few turns nothing happened afterwards.

i did complete all 3 campaigns, in 250+ turns average.


P.S. In regards to Better Agressive CAI...better battles and factions do ally with each other to prevent you from wiping them out.However...they never join in wars to help each other.

Also you have 57 edicts available from the start, at level 3 Imperium i could have field 24 armies and i was close to 20k gold after less then 50 turns, which i find it rather unrealistic and silly.

Even SPQR on the height of the power didn't have more then 22 Legions(armies).And if i want to play with spam the armies i can do that with Radious Mod (no pun intended to Radious).

[Icceman]

I have the same issue. The AI is just to passive and waits around to be conquered

[Junaidi83 de Bodemloze]

Hmm i bit busy working on 2 AI title at once, but last things i recall, the AI problem mostly lie in variable number for peace to high which resulted , when AI declare wars he can immediatley pulled peace treaty. But the AI will declare war with you. Are you sure the installation load order is correct ?

The problem with Better Aggresive AI mod itself, the mod till now didnt have proper beta tester team that willing to test the mod before released. Till on future version 2.8 that i able to manage collect several good people that willing to join as beta tester.

Modding the AI itself its tricky business

[Tariq]

Hmm i bit busy working on 2 AI title at once, but last things i recall, the AI problem mostly lie in variable number for peace to high which resulted , when AI declare wars he can immediatley pulled peace treaty. But the AI will declare war with you. Are you sure the installation load order is correct ?

The problem with Better Aggresive AI mod itself, the mod till now didnt have proper beta tester team that willing to test the mod before released. Till on future version 2.8 that i able to manage collect several good people that willing to join as beta tester.

Modding the AI itself its tricky business

It's not your mod, you are doing good progress. I know that modding AI is lengthy and tricky process with lots and lots of testing, hence that's why i can't bring myself to work much on it...if you are given help and time i am sure that you will find some solution.

I have PM'd you example of test with romans where i didn't recruit anything for 50 turns from the start and AI didn't even acknowledge that i am even alive .

All what i did in test was sailed around with my Admiral and asked factions for trade agreement, starting with Carthage as the first thing in game (they always accept it btw , if you ask before you do anything else). And yeah i build buildings that's all..

P.S. I'll change food handicaps back to 0.96 levels and see if that kick start AI at least somewhat(as AI was starving with 1.04 levels)..as the Success modifier doesn't do it.Success works great on AI vs AI wars control but is not enticing AI to do anything vs Human.

[Junaidi83 de Bodemloze]

Let me run couple test with Dei version Hayasdan faction you said and i post my result whatever its result either its good or bad

Mod i use for test :
- Better AI Dei version ( i try normal)
- Dei

Campaign setting : Very hard

[Tariq]

Let me run couple test with Dei version Hayasdan faction you said and i post my result whatever its result either its good or bad

Mod i use for test :
- Better AI Dei version ( i try normal)
- Dei

Campaign setting : Very hard

If you don't mind it, try running it with DEI default Imperium levels. No offense , but i really don't agree with having 57 edicts from the start, and 24 armies at Imperium 3 .

It kills immersion for me.

And with Hayasdan i have declared war on Karthly within first 5 turns,and then Kolchis and Galbala(that was about it). it was Rome Test that i didn't do anything for 50 turns.

[Junaidi83 de Bodemloze]

Hmm for 57 Eddict problem, its used for easy to recognize the mod is on or off, about why you can getting rich using Eddict, because i dont nerf the Eddict effect from DEI, while for vanilla i do nerf some of it so even i use 57 Eddict from start its will not to powerfull

About army cap , i do make some changes on 2.8 version i do work now, 8 caps at lvl 3



I already see Hayasdan, the faction itself born with good moderate diplomacy toward persian,and all Helenistic faction added with initial + 30 bonus diplomacy on early imperium on version 2.7. They definitely have smooth sailing on diplomatic aspect early on.

Still i see AI declare war with me, Karti did that on turn 2 despite trade agreement already signed by him on turn 1. Still i can still remedy the situation by try to offer peace with result moderate from no money offer.





I did waiting on turn 4 i see AI try to attack me



On turn 5 they siege me, but seem AI to careless when rushing to siege you, that fix for Version 2.8 anyways



Hmm this is my finding from play barely 5 turn, sorry for lack of this and lack of that

[Tariq]

Well they didn't attack me , could be because i recruited troops in turn 1 .They did cancel agreement with me , so i did attacked at turn 2.again that was the campaign where i have started under assumption that everything is fine, so i did not test anything, but just played out as i would normally do...it was later on that i have notices (in this campaign specifically ) that no one is after me...Again i did not start campaign with intention to test something , but play.

Only real test i did was with Rome later on, as i am doing one right now...and please it's not mod, again..i had same experience with it or without it...


and sorry for lack this or lack of that? What are you referring to specifically?

[Junaidi83 de Bodemloze]

Nah its okay if you want to check did the mod do trick or not, just play the same faction , so the result should be accurate, still version 2.7 itself have lot of bad design on it.

Buts its should lots better than vanilla

And with Hayasdan i have declared war on Karthly within first 5 turns,and then Kolchis and Galbala(that was about it). it was Rome Test that i didn't do anything for 50 turns.

Sorry didnt read that one

[Tariq]

Nah its okay if you want to check did the mod do trick or not, just play the same faction , so the result should be accurate, still version 2.7 itself have lot of bad design on it.

Buts its should lots better than vanilla

No one is questioning your mod being better than Vanilla , it is by far...as for design errors , i don't bother , all i need is from AI not to starve or go bankrupt and attack me in most opportune moment for them.

If you check 98 turns in Hai campaign , they are all green around me.Could be my mistake on how i handle diplomacy ...Aorsi and Scythians have non agression agremnet so they never attacked me .Same with Macedonians.Only reason why i had 4 provinces was to prevent Egypt getting even more ground in North and protect Pontus my satrapy.

Notice the trade icons under my Leader on the left

[Irishmafia2020]

I play on medium, and in every campaign I have had war declared on me by my neighbors almost immediately (within two years or 8 turns). Lusitania was at war with three nearby powers by turn 8, and invaded as well, Macedonia was at war with two countries in Thrace, Pontus and Galatia. Massalia was at war with the Averni and two other Gallic nations...Epirus was at war with Sparta, Athens, Rome and Syracuse... As Pontus I had to face immediate war with Galatia and Cimmeria... As Armenia (Hayasadan) I had to fight at least three neighbors at once by turn eight... Baktria goes to war with nomadic neighbors by turn eight... The only actually peaceful start I've had was once with Egypt, and the Ethiopians attacked me in that game on about turn 20 when my armies were far away....

I have absolutely had the opposite problem with this game! I have never had a peaceful start, and some factions require multiple restarts just to survive! Honestly, Massalia, Lusitania, and Epirus all required 3-4 starts just to get strong enough to survive the onslaught of neighbors bent upon their extermination! My experience has always been with a very aggressive AI at least until you have a medium sized empire that the little guys begin to fear... I am certain that you just got lucky with your passive AI since I experienced tough starts even with Macedonia and Armenia in my games (I even lost an Armenian game when invaded from three directions in two turns...). I hope you get your wish, my games are sometimes not much fun for the opposite reason - I win three heroic victories only to fall to yet another army attacking my capital on turn 6 or 7. Then I come to the forums, and everyone is complaining about how easy the game is... sigh...

[Tariq]

I play on medium, and in every campaign I have had war declared on me by my neighbors almost immediately (within two years or 8 turns). Lusitania was at war with three nearby powers by turn 8, and invaded as well, Macedonia was at war with two countries in Thrace, Pontus and Galatia. Massalia was at war with the Averni and two other Gallic nations...Epirus was at war with Sparta, Athens, Rome and Syracuse... As Pontus I had to face immediate war with Galatia and Cimmeria... As Armenia (Hayasadan) I had to fight at least three neighbors at once by turn eight... Baktria goes to war with nomadic neighbors by turn eight... The only actually peaceful start I've had was once with Egypt, and the Ethiopians attacked me in that game on about turn 20 when my armies were far away....

I have absolutely had the opposite problem with this game! I have never had a peaceful start, and some factions require multiple restarts just to survive! Honestly, Massalia, Lusitania, and Epirus all required 3-4 starts just to get strong enough to survive the onslaught of neighbors bent upon their extermination! My experience has always been with a very aggressive AI at least until you have a medium sized empire that the little guys begin to fear... I am certain that you just got lucky with your passive AI since I experienced tough starts even with Macedonia and Armenia in my games (I even lost an Armenian game when invaded from three directions in two turns...). I hope you get your wish, my games are sometimes not much fun for the opposite reason - I win three heroic victories only to fall to yet another army attacking my capital on turn 6 or 7. Then I come to the forums, and everyone is complaining about how easy the game is... sigh...

I don't think we are talking about same things:

- DEI scripts(at least diplomacy ones) don't kick in until second turn , if you check on turn 1 and then turn 2 you will see huge difference in diplomacy standings
- first 5-6 turns conflicts are semi predetermined by scripts , no matter how many campaigns you start it will result is same conflicts each time and as such that is not ground to base conclusions on it

Did anyone actually played more then 50 turns and had neighboring AI declared war on them because they actually hated you past that point? My question was about long term hostility and not what happens in first few turns..

In any case , what i have seen in BA CAI 2.8 looks promising, i'll dabble with stuff myself while waiting for it.

[Irishmafia2020]

I just had Garamantia declare war on me (Egypt) on turn 40... they seemed to hate me for my lengthy and brutal war annexing Cyrenicia (with public order nightmare installed). Carthage has begun to hate me for the same reason. I don't know if Garamantia is scripted to hate Egypt, but in some games I've turned them into an ally... I will see if other nations eventually declare war on Egypt... Qidri seem to really hate me as well...