Unit Sizes

**sharkeyyyy** · March 23, 2019, 08:13 PM

I find the unit sizes to be ridiculously small. I have them on the largest setting and still some only have 80 men. Will this change as I upgrade buildings or am I stuck with this ? I can't imagine how ridiculous battles would look with the normal setting for unit sizes.
Are there any submods that change unit sizes and upkeep/cost appropriately ?

I want interesting epic battles and I don't think that'll be possible with such small units. It's sad.

Thanks in advance for any help.

**Danius** · March 24, 2019, 04:13 AM

80 men is only cavalry and maybe some elite units. Most units are between 160-240.

**QuintusSertorius** · March 24, 2019, 05:00 AM

Eh? On Huge unit scale, regular infantry are 160 men, levies around 200 and phalanxes 240. Only elites have small units. Cavalry are 100 men in a unit, aside from cavalry bodyguards.

**Jurand of Cracow** · March 24, 2019, 05:39 AM

I'm curious to know if the team considered lowering the size of the generals' bodyguards for some factions where the generals wouldn't take part personally in the battle (Romani?)? Something in the way Empire TW / Napoleon TW? What were the arguments against (for me the obvious one is the AI behaviour).

**alex33** · March 24, 2019, 06:12 AM

Didn't roman generals fight personally in battle too? I thought atleast in the polybian era a consul commanded a cav wing, thats why they died so fast in Cannae. But I'm no expert in Roman warfare

**QuintusSertorius** · March 24, 2019, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by alex33

Didn't roman generals fight personally in battle too? I thought atleast in the polybian era a consul commanded a cav wing, thats why they died so fast in Cannae. But I'm no expert in Roman warfare

No, by the time of our period, Roman generals were expected to be observers and controllers of battles from behind the fighting line, not active participants.

**QuintusSertorius** · March 24, 2019, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by alex33

Didn't roman generals fight personally in battle too? I thought atleast in the polybian era a consul commanded a cav wing, thats why they died so fast in Cannae. But I'm no expert in Roman warfare

No, by the time of our period, Roman generals were expected to be observers and controllers of battles from behind the fighting line, not active participants. Personally leading men was a job for subordinate officers.

**Lusitanio** · March 24, 2019, 07:06 AM

In Cannae both Consuls fought in cavalry units. One of the consuls, Paullus, commanded the Roman right wing and when they broke from the attack of the Iberian and Gaulish cavalry, he retreated to the centre of the Roman infantry line where he continued to command and encourage his men to push harder. The other consul, Varro, commanded the Roman left wing and escaped from battle after being attacked from behind by the victorious Iberian and Gaulish cavalry.

**AnthoniusII** · March 24, 2019, 07:09 AM

Beware ussing huge unit size. Such units CAN NOT defend city walls simply because they do not fit on them!

**Razor** · March 25, 2019, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by AnthoniusII

Beware ussing huge unit size. Such units CAN NOT defend city walls simply because they do not fit on them!

This. Upping the unit size isn't everything and can make units very clunky and troublesome when you fight in settlements (placing units on walls, deploying them on a street or any other random space that has a limited width etc.).

**Septentrionalis** · April 03, 2019, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by Razor

This. Upping the unit size isn't everything and can make units very clunky and troublesome when you fight in settlements (placing units on walls, deploying them on a street or any other random space that has a limited width etc.).

I would recommend huge unit sizes for more realistic field battles and considering auto-resolving at least some of the settlement battles unless you have found those particularly fulfilling.

I have found the settlement battles very clunky, time-consuming, and unrealistic in the way how AI behaves within cities and how the central square provides unlimited morale. After a while, it seems like a chore to grind those engagements. Setting up a proper attack takes time and consideration, and against a specific type of settlement, the battle never really offers anything novel let alone surprising. It is one person's opinion, but I would not sacrifice the special feeling of huge open-terrain battles for the fact that it is easier man the walls in repetitive settlement battles.