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Thread: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

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    Razor's Avatar Licenced to insult
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    Icon4 Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    A Shogun mod for M2TW



    Startdate: 1549

    Turns per year: 4 or 6 (to be decided)

    Factions:

    1) Shimazu clan
    2) Ito clan
    3) Otomo clan
    4) Ryuzoji clan
    5) Ouchi clan
    6) Mori clan
    7) Amako clan
    8) Urakami clan
    9) Yamana clan
    10) Kono clan
    11) Chosokabe clan
    12) Miyoshi clan
    13) Ikko-ikki
    14) Asai clan
    15) Asakura clan
    16) Saito clan
    17) Oda clan
    18) The Shogunate
    19) Toyotomi clan (emergent)
    20) Matsudaira/Tokugawa clan
    21) Imagawa clan
    22) Takeda clan
    23) Hojo clan
    24) Minor Factions & Rebels
    25) Satomi clan
    26) Satake clan
    27) Uesugi clan
    28) Ashina clan
    29) Mogami clan
    30) Date clan
    31) Nanbu clan


    Map:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Introduction and gameplay info:

    This mod aims to relive the times of old Shogun Total War and Shogun 2 Total War but without the IMO horrendous Warscape engine. Obviously the mod is set during the Sengoku Jidai (period of the warring states) following the Onin war of the mid 15th century that effectively caused the downfall of the Ashikaga Shogunate. The mod starts in 1549 and is set to include most of the important factions and characters of the period. The purpose when playing this mod is to bring greatness to your clan, expand your realm, defeat other rival clans and ultimately bring down the weak Shogunate and unite Japan under your banner.

    The pope mechanics are used to represent the standing between the clans and the Shogunate. You can recruit agents that advance through the ranks of the Imperial Court to ultimately become the most trusted advisor of the Court when a new Shogun is installed, influencing the stance of the Shogunate towards your faction in your favor. However, the more powerful you become, the more the other factions will start to dislike you, including the Shogunate over time as he doesn't like bring treated as a puppet.


    Religions

    The religions in this mod are are Shinto-buddhism (Catholic in vanilla M2TW), Jodo Shinshu Buddhism (Orthodox in M2TW) and Christianity (Heretic in M2TW). Shinto-buddhism represents the status quo of the samurai classes and the authority of the emperor and the shogun, Jodo Shinshu Buddhism represents the rebel purist Buddhist movement that turns against the status quo, Christianity is the new religion that represents the presence and influence of western culture through Jesuit Missionaries wandering the map, Trading Ports and Churches. The more Christianity in a province, the more technology advantages (firearm technologies and units) there will be, but also the more religious and social tension this brings, not only in the province but also with the Imperial Court in Kyoto (and possibly other factions). The more Christianity there is in a province the more you're susceptible of Imperial Daikans (inquisitors in vanilla M2TW) visiting your province to deal with the problem and possibly putting you on trial for maladministration and corruption.


    The Shogunate as "Pope Faction" and the Crusade mechanic

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Imperial Court as "Pope Faction" and the Crusade mechanic - BEING REVISED

    I've included the Imperial Court as the Pope faction and made the Ashikaga Shogunate in a normal faction controlling Nijo palace in Kyoto. This way I can incorporate the internal politics in and around Kyoto in some form, where the owner of Kyoto receives more favor points from the Emperor and can as such be considered a potential Shogun. I plan to restrict access to the Imperial Palace where the Imperial Court resides to the faction owning Nijo palace in Kyoto, essentially isolating the Emperor from diplomats from other factions (which is also what happened in reality).


    The priest-bishop-cardinal agents in vanila M2TW have been transformed into Metsuke, O-metsuke and Roju. I've also modified some AI behaviour and faction standings to prevent excommunications from happening as much as possible (it almost doesn't happen anymore). AI factions will now follow cease hostility missions from the Shogunate much much much often.

    In addition I've modified religions, using the orthodox religion for Jodo Shinshu Buddhism instead of islam, and heretic for Christianity. The main problem I had with having a "Pope faction" was the fact that factions often got excommunicated and crusades got called left, right and center. I first managed to prevent excommunications from happening (which made factions a viable target for crusades), but then rebel regions with 100% Jodo Shinshu Buddhism became the target of crusades. Using orthodox as religion instead of islam now allows a rebel region to be fully 100% orthodox/Jodo Shinshu (such as Ishiyama Honganji/Osaka, Nagashima, Oyama Gobo) without making it a target for a crusade. Right now crusades pretty much never happen, unless I want them to, which can be triggered indirectly by increasing the percentage of heretic/Christianity in a region or when the game decides to put a lot of Jesuit Missionaries in one region. This way you could trigger scenarios similar to the historical Shimabara rebellion.


    Kalmar Union script

    Some factions get the ability to take over whole factions if they conquer their home province and the faction leader dies (similar to the Kalmar Union script in the teutonic campaign expansion). The Oda clan will be able to take over the Saito clan and the Mori clan will be able to take over the Ouchi clan and the Amako clan using this mechanic.
    I'm also thinking of using this mechanic for every faction that controls Kyoto. So if a faction controls Kyoto, it's able to take over whole factions by just conquering their home province and having their leader killed. In addition I want to include a mechanic that will make other factions (besides the Imperial Court) dislike you more when you have conquered Kyoto. Simultaneously I want to make almost all factions re-emergent in their home provinces, and include a public order penalty when a faction gets a new faction leader (which historically was often accompanied with rebellions and reasserting independence by subdued factions).


    Spreading Christian Religion and Getting Western Technology

    Also, religion is spread first by Jesuit Missionaries and by Nanban Trade Ports. Because your provinces start with 0% Christianity you first need to have a Jesuit Missionary in your provinces (by sheer luck) or build a Nanban Trade Port (which you can't just build everywhere) to convert the province to a high enough percentage of Christianity which might cause a Jesuit Missionary to spawn. Only if the region is above a certain percentage of Christianity (say 5%), do you get to build Church-related buildings and western buildings that all increase conversion up to max. 30% (otherwise the game might allow a crusade to be called on the rebel regions that have too much Christianity). You want this because Christianity brings western technology which provides you with the powerful Teppo units faster and cheaper, allows a powder maker (increases effectiveness firearm units) to be built in higher tier settlements and ultimately allows you to train artillery units and possibly even some western ships. This does come with a public order penalty and you do get occasional visits from the daikan (Inquisitor in M2TW vanilla) to counter your "maladministration". And because a province has converted to a percentage of Christianity, Jesuit Missionaries spawn and wander around the map spreading Christianity to other regions, starting a possible chain reaction.

    Another way to obtain Teppo units is by building trade buildings. However these regenerate the unit pool of Teppo units very slowly (since historically many factions seeked to stockpile the new matchlock weapon). Ultimately you'll be able to build your own gunsmiths out of blacksmiths (historically because of this reverse engineering of the Teppo, the technology spread to the rest of Japan) and you'll be able to field more Teppo units as the game progresses. However, you still don't get the benefits that conversion of a region to 30% Christianity brings: the powder maker, cannons and western ships.


    About the inclusion of Korea

    There will be NO KOREA! If you want Korea, then I'll refer you to the Imjin War mod: http://www.moddb.com/mods/imjin-war-of-korea
    By the way, also a big shout out to the Imjin War mod, because without this mod I wouldn't have started or even considered doing this mod in the first place. At the moment I'm using modified unit models based on the Imjin War mod, but I plan to completely revise them.


    Anyway, lots of ideas and lots of things to do.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Sengoku - Total War.jpg   map_regions.jpg  
    Last edited by Razor; August 22, 2019 at 10:02 PM. Reason: Update

  2. #2
    Razor's Avatar Licenced to insult
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    Default Re: Sengoku - Total War, a Shogun mod for M2TW

    - RESERVED -

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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Very cool idea, and I hope you pull it off, but the faction list does seem a bit bloated.

  4. #4
    Razor's Avatar Licenced to insult
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    If I may ask, why do you think the faction list seems bloated?

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    Crociato78's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Congratulations, great idea!


    I had also thought about creating a mod, using the units (modifying them and adding their sashimono) of Imjin War mod.

  6. #6
    Frunk's Avatar The Duke Will Return...
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    A very bold undertaking! Good luck! +rep
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor View Post
    If I may ask, why do you think the faction list seems bloated?
    31 factions seems excessive. Are all meant to be playable? Are you going to try to complete *all* of those rosters before release? How many clans will just be rehashes of each other? Narrowing it down to the major players of the period would not only cut down a lot of unnecessary time to complete this (or even release a beta) but also allow focus on more interesting things, like campaign scripts, unique generals, and custom settlements.

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    Razor's Avatar Licenced to insult
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Quote Originally Posted by Crociato78 View Post
    Congratulations, great idea!


    I had also thought about creating a mod, using the units (modifying them and adding their sashimono) of Imjin War mod.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frunk View Post
    A very bold undertaking! Good luck! +rep
    Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyBob View Post
    31 factions seems excessive. Are all meant to be playable? Are you going to try to complete *all* of those rosters before release? How many clans will just be rehashes of each other? Narrowing it down to the major players of the period would not only cut down a lot of unnecessary time to complete this (or even release a beta) but also allow focus on more interesting things, like campaign scripts, unique generals, and custom settlements.
    Most factions will be playable. Some will emerge when they rebel from their parent faction, like I plan to do with the Toyotomi clan (parent faction is the Oda clan) and the Ryuzoji clan (parent faction is the Shoni clan). In other cases the lord-retainer relationship is portrayed as an alliance as is the case between the Mori clan and the Ouchi clan and between the Matsudaira/Tokugawa clan and the Imagawa clan for example.

    Factions will all be sharing the same unit roster for now. I don't plan to differentiate that much in unit rosters while there were hardly any differences to begin with. Variation will depend on building choice within settlements. The main differences between the clans are their starting positions and possibly some clan-specific 'bonuses' or 'skills'. All clans will be rehashes of one another in one way or another.

    Also, these are pretty much all the major players of the period. I would have liked to add a few more, but I believe these factions keep a certain balance on the map. Also remember that the Shogun (acting like the Pope in M2TW vanilla does) doesn't like it when there's too much fighting between factions going on and at some point will demand an end to the fighting. If a faction was fighting just rebels the Shogun (Pope) wouldn't care less and the faction could conquer more territory without risking excommunication, which would make the mod much less interesting and less challenging.

    I don't plan to make the mod very heavy on scripts. Unique generals and custom settlements are a concern for later, much later. I do hope to implement new settlements. The Imjin War mod has Japanese castles/settlements included, but I would like to expand on that quite a bit with bigger castles and settlements outside the castle walls.
    Last edited by Razor; December 18, 2018 at 09:10 PM.

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    Crociato78's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Will there be an Ikko-ikki faction? Will it be in the rebels or playable?

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    Crociato78's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor View Post
    Sengoku - Total War, a Shogun mod for M2TW

    Map:

    Do you have a list of the names of the regions you have created in the map region?


    Could I help you which clan to assign the regions?

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    Razor's Avatar Licenced to insult
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Quote Originally Posted by Crociato78 View Post
    Will there be an Ikko-ikki faction? Will it be in the rebels or playable?
    The Ikko-ikki are just the rebel 'brigands' that I accordingly renamed. Same with the Pirates that I've renamed 'Wako Pirates'. It made little sense to me to make the Ikko-ikki a separate faction when they do so well and act fittingly as brigand armies that spawn randomly on the map as part of the rebels faction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crociato78 View Post
    Do you have a list of the names of the regions you have created in the map region?


    Could I help you which clan to assign the regions?
    I have all the names ready. I also have a pretty good idea about where factions were located in this specific time period. However, I'm not going to stop you from making suggestions or making maps.

    As you may have noticed, I've abandoned the idea of going for full (and in some cases huge) provinces (like in Shogun TW, Shogun 2 TW and mods like Ran no Jidai and Shizoku no Senso) as they were at the time, but instead I chopped them up into smaller domains. Instead of the Shimazu clan getting one province (Satsuma) they get 3-4 domains. This allows for more variety when building your realm and lets you have plenty of things to do on the campaign map. The campaign map is almost 2/3 ready. Everything from Kyushu to the mountainous heartland of the Takeda clan is more or less finished. Pics will follow soon.
    Last edited by Razor; February 08, 2018 at 09:25 AM.

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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Ok! ;-)


    Good job!

    Have you already created the sashimono and the nobori of the units of all the factions?


    Let me know if you want help!

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    Razor's Avatar Licenced to insult
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Yep, all has been taken care of actually. I may have to revisit some of them, but all templates are there so it's easy to make them for me. It's all a matter of applying and organizing the files. I do appreciate the offer.

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    Vladyvid's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Great idea with the mod setting and using papal mechanics like that i think. The thing about chopping the larger provinces into many smaller regions, sounds cool and will give more options for strategy for sure.

    Are you planning to use units from some other mods you mentioned?

    Anyways best of luck, i would love to see a new and fresh Shogun mod!

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    Razor's Avatar Licenced to insult
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Quote Originally Posted by Crociato78 View Post
    Ok! ;-)


    Good job!

    Have you already created the sashimono and the nobori of the units of all the factions?


    Let me know if you want help!
    However, if you have ideas or things that you´d like to see in this mod or information, please post it and I will look into it. That goes for everyone.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vladyvid View Post
    Great idea with the mod setting and using papal mechanics like that i think. The thing about chopping the larger provinces into many smaller regions, sounds cool and will give more options for strategy for sure.

    Are you planning to use units from some other mods you mentioned?

    Anyways best of luck, i would love to see a new and fresh Shogun mod!
    Thanks! I only use units based on the Imjin War mod. I've made a few modifications to them, adding a new sashimono, different helmet crests and weapons. Basically all the important units are finished, but I do consider the current units to be placeholders. I want to have something playable first. The units of Shizoku no Senso don't look right to begin with and Ran no Jidai is a mod for RTW so their units are of little use other than using them as graphical reference.

    For the record, so would I. I just don't understand that this hasn't been done before. Luckily I had already created a huge basic map of Japan from scratch to be used for the mod Shizoku no Senso but it never got included in the mod beta when it got released. A few months back - after years of not modding at all - my hands were itching and I took on this project just to see where and how far it would take me.

  16. #16
    Razor's Avatar Licenced to insult
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Ok, just a little teaser.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 0033.jpg   0032.jpg   0031.jpg  

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    Crociato78's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor View Post
    Ok, just a little teaser.

    Excellent map!


    I'm curious to see the modifications of the units (armor, sashimono and nobori).

  18. #18

    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Ver nice mod idea Razor Do you know Swagger's mod Shizoku no Senso? maybe with his permission you could take some material from there. Anyway, good luck!

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    Crociato78's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Quote Originally Posted by Warcrafthero View Post
    Ver nice mod idea Razor Do you know Swagger's mod Shizoku no Senso? maybe with his permission you could take some material from there. Anyway, good luck!

    Yes, he knows him.

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    Vladyvid's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Sengoku: Total War (a Shogun mod for M2TW)

    Thats a beautiful map! Very nicely done. Given that you already have this map, and what you said about the units, this mod really starts looking better and better hehe. Nice.

    What about city models for battles? I know its easy to replace the campaign models but do you have any idea about the battle models you want to use?

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