[Feedback] Questions, Critiques and Requests

[whitegamebox]

No, I mean why marian, imperial units are yellow at that picture.
(Legionary Cavalry, Armoured Legionary Cohort, Eagle Cohort etc)

[Dresden]

If you are using the english names submod, some units may not be properly greyed out.

[whitegamebox]

Oh, I didn't think about it before. but I have to check it out.
Thanks for letting me know anyway.

[KennyTheKlever]

Sorry to sound ignorant, but what is the "overcrowding" category in the population growth tooltip supposed to represent, and how can I minimise its effects? It is absolutely decimating the growth of my 1st class.

[Dresden]

I updated that text in the latest update to be overcrowding/base growth
But its both the base growth of a class + the affect of larger population sizes on that class. The pop 1 tier has the lowest impact from overcrowding but they have a very low base growth rate also. Its in the inverse for the other classes.

if we didn't have a system where larger population sizes added a decrease, then they would just keep growing to crazy sizes.

[Ostrogoth]

Started Scordisci campaign on H/N difficulty. By turn 28 I was able to establish a small kingdom which will serve as a foundation of great empire. However, there is one thing that has been bugging me. In every single playthrough Rome and Carthage end up as defensive allies. These two are supposed to be archenemies but here they are standing together against the known world. On the positive side Rome is able to focus attention on Europe and butcher pesky Greeks and barbarians.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[k966]

After the Jan 10th update, Mod Manager tells me the ui\campaign ui\effect_bundles\trait_pergamon.png in part 1 is in conflict with part 2, and vice versa.

[KennyTheKlever]

I updated that text in the latest update to be overcrowding/base growth
But its both the base growth of a class + the affect of larger population sizes on that class. The pop 1 tier has the lowest impact from overcrowding but they have a very low base growth rate also. Its in the inverse for the other classes.

if we didn't have a system where larger population sizes added a decrease, then they would just keep growing to crazy sizes.

Thanks for explaining. Basically, I can't minimise its effects unless the province becomes depopulated? This population system really changes the entire feel of the mod. I can see a lot of people actually not liking it because of how dramatic the change is.

As for the overcrowding mechanic: at ~40,000 population at my capital it seems to completely halt any further growth of the 1st class citizenry - even with a palace and horse studs in the capital increasing the growth specifically of the 1st class. I guess I have to look elsewhere now to recruit my decent units...

[Dresden]

Started Scordisci campaign on H/N difficulty. By turn 28 I was able to establish a small kingdom which will serve as a foundation of great empire. However, there is one thing that has been bugging me. In every single playthrough Rome and Carthage end up as defensive allies. These two are supposed to be archenemies but here they are standing together against the known world. On the positive side Rome is able to focus attention on Europe and butcher pesky Greeks and barbarians.

As I explained above, Rome/Carthage have an escalation script toward war if Rome owns all of Italy and takes Syracuse, or if Carthage takes all of Sicily. Also as I said before, at the start period they weren't actually archenemies. That developed after Pyrrhus was defeated.

After the Jan 10th update, Mod Manager tells me the ui\campaign ui\effect_bundles\trait_pergamon.png in part 1 is in conflict with part 2, and vice versa.

Conflicts just mean the part 1 entry will be used ahead of the part 2 entry. Instead of making everyone download part 2 again, I update part 1 so often it will have "conflicts" that are meaningless.

Thanks for explaining. Basically, I can't minimise its effects unless the province becomes depopulated? This population system really changes the entire feel of the mod. I can see a lot of people actually not liking it because of how dramatic the change is.
As for the overcrowding mechanic: at ~40,000 population at my capital it seems to completely halt any further growth of the 1st class citizenry - even with a palace and horse studs in the capital increasing the growth specifically of the 1st class. I guess I have to look elsewhere now to recruit my decent units...

Thats strange. For example, as Rome at game start they have 50k and my pop 1 is increasing. As I said, its not just about population size - tier 1 population has a very low base growth rate also. But, yes, the population system is quite a big change and is supposed to be that way. I will look into bumping up pop 1 growth rate a bit I guess, but the whole idea is that is a very rare/exclusive class. Culture, public order, etc also play a very large role in the growth modifiers - also temples and the main city line are good ways to improve class 1 growth. There are also the colony buildings.

People always wanted a system that would slow down expansion and make the mid/late game less of a steamroll and the population system is part of that. This mod has also always been about adding complexity and difficulty for the player. Just because we became a more popular mod that people outside of our original target audience play doesn't mean we will lose that original idea for the mod. We try to provide submods to help with that, but in the end we have our vision for what we want the mod to be.

[HighOnTea]

Please ignore this

I've noticed the following things at the start of campaign as Epirus:

-The starting army in Taras has a unit of phalangites. In-battle it looks visually different from the newly recruited ones (no new shield textures, for example).

-Nothing happens ones a technology is researched:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Recruiting Greek swordsmen after research is complete (1 turn only)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

No promised upgraded unit available in the new building or the existing one. Upgrading an existing unit of swordsmen not possible either.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Augustusng]

I'm not sure about the pikemen (might be a side effect of some pike unit removal recently), but the other thing - that purple technology enables upgrades, but only once you hit the requirements for the Thureos reforms (a certain imperium level and turn count. There's a guide for it on these forums somewhere ). So you should be able to upgrade your swordsmen only after you reach those requirements, and only if you've also researched that technology.

[KennyTheKlever]

Thats strange. For example, as Rome at game start they have 50k and my pop 1 is increasing. As I said, its not just about population size - tier 1 population has a very low base growth rate also. But, yes, the population system is quite a big change and is supposed to be that way. I will look into bumping up pop 1 growth rate a bit I guess, but the whole idea is that is a very rare/exclusive class. Culture, public order, etc also play a very large role in the growth modifiers - also temples and the main city line are good ways to improve class 1 growth. There are also the colony buildings.

People always wanted a system that would slow down expansion and make the mid/late game less of a steamroll and the population system is part of that. This mod has also always been about adding complexity and difficulty for the player. Just because we became a more popular mod that people outside of our original target audience play doesn't mean we will lose that original idea for the mod. We try to provide submods to help with that, but in the end we have our vision for what we want the mod to be.

Well you won't hear any complaints from me about the concept of a population system like this one, it is only the pretty major limitation I have reached with my first class that struck me. The only thing saving me from having zero 1st class in the city is the handy +20 settler mechanic that seems to trigger when they reach below a certain number. This usually bumps them up over a few turns to just over 200 (just enough to recruit an elite inf unit), after which they then go into decline again. Bear in mind that I have recruited heavily from this class in my capital when its population was smaller, and due to the subsequent increased ratio of 2nd and 3rd class citizens, maybe they now prevent the 1st class from recuperating their numbers properly because of a slightly too punitive overcrowding penalty on the 1st class.

[Dresden]

Did you get the January 10th update to the mod? I lowered overcrowding's affect a bit on pop class 1 and their minimum bonus should be 40 not 20 now.

Edit - Also, I should mention, my statement earlier was just a response to the idea that many may not like the system. I appreciate you giving feedback on it and helping us find the issues with it.

[Falco]

Are the Dalmatae supposed to now be the middle Illyrian faction, and not start in Dalmatia, where the Daorsi now start?

[Ostrogoth]

As I explained above, Rome/Carthage have an escalation script toward war if Rome owns all of Italy and takes Syracuse, or if Carthage takes all of Sicily. Also as I said before, at the start period they weren't actually archenemies. That developed after Pyrrhus was defeated.

Looks like I misread your previous answer. My rusty English is playing tricks on me from time to time . However, I have one question. Will the Rome-Carthage War script still trigger if Carthage or Rome will not capture Syracuse but instead "liberate" or subjugate it.

[Gusten Grodslukare]

I was playing a bit as the Breuci, just as I had done in DeI 1.1 when this beta version came out, and read a "This year in history" about the year 276 and Samnites fighting the Romans. So I got curious and checked on internet. It seems that the Samnites, although already being subjugated by Rome around or after 290 bce, allied with Pyrrhus and Hannibal in their wars against Rome. They were apparently quite successful during the Pyrrhic war and won a battle against Roman legions. It was only after Pyrrhus had left Italy that they were subjugated again. Around 82 bce the troublesome Samnites suffered from an ethnic cleansing by the Romans and more or less disappeared.

Would've been fun if you had pictured that situation with the Samnites siding with Rome's enemies by having an emergent faction (called Safinim/Samnites) control the Samnite town Beneventum and fight on Epirus side in the start of the campaign and later on when/if the Roma faction are at war with Qarthadastim they could emerge in Beneventum again and this time fight on the side of Carthage if they manage to land troops on Roman soil. The Roma faction seems a bit too strong and could deserve a bit of challenge.

[servent9]

I really impressed with 1.2 version.

especially with Seleucid Empire. but I personally edit to put pikemen into recruitment section. there's only kleuch?pike? at tier 1.

only real disappointment was rack of Roman legion and ugly roman legion.[personally]

why dei team don't adopt variety legions in this mod? why only in sub outdated mod?

in AE mod there are plenty of legionaries.

anyway thanks for wonderful works!

[FlashHeart07]

That is exactly why those things are not in the mod. We as a team have a vision of how this mod should be and shouldnt be. And we know that we have a very large fanbase, who like you have personal ideas and preferences. If we just added everything people wanted this mod would be... crap..
Therefore we create submods that allows users to have the game that they personally want.

[cf2612]

Hi you guys have really outdone yourselves with this 1.2 patch. The fluidity in the campaign as well as the #Battle fix, has turned this into a totally new game for me and by far the best total war experience i have ever had.
The only thing that i find annyoing is the imbalance amongst factions regarding the population system. As it now stands several factions rely to heavely on recruitment from the noble class, and as the population growth is percentage based, recruitment of theese units will lead to a decimation of the noble class, and without decent warrior class units the player is then cursed with trash units for a long time. I would hope to see that some of the "noble" units where demoted to the warrior class. Factions that come to mind is Saka rauka and atropatkan.

regarding my earlier post, this propblem might have more to do with the unit roster then the population system in itself. I really like the layer of depth the population system adds, it is just that there is really no way to improve the lower class units cause when higher ranks of millitary buildings is built they provide the recruitment of elite units that draw from the noble class, What i felt i ended up with in one campaign was using the same trash units over and over.

[KAM 2150]

Well, the point of population system is to force player not to rely only on those top units. Sure you can have that elite army but it will be problematic to maintain in you suffer too big losses, which is a great trade off. Also it gives more purpose to AOR units. Although some units will have their classes changed, we have around 1800 units in the mod so that might be hard to get right from start