[Feedback] Questions, Critiques and Requests

[Nikitian]

Playing as the Royal Scythians, I noticed that it is next to impossible to restore the right ratio of the 1st class (i.e. get rid of agrarian penalty from having too few of them), even if you dipped just barely below it, as other classes just grow much faster. After some observation (with different taxes, etc.), it seems that the only remotely possible approach here would be to keep the region under maximal taxes while bringing down the 3rd class population with max 3rd class troops recruitment (never mind the unprofitablity of such investment), but even then it'd be only a temporary solution, as even at max taxes 3rd class outgrows the 1st class by some ~1.5%, so eventually the ratio would not be satisfied again, not to mention that any lighter taxes would only exacerbate the problem. I understand that it's meant to make recruitment more interesting, and it does its job, and that certain technologies and building chains can help it (although in the case of buildings it is often barely of any influence at .1-.2% changes; whereas several technologies boost the 3rd class growth too, leading to worse problems), and in the grand scheme such things don't really matter, but it still saddens my inner OCD that I effectively cannot hope to solve this problem for good.

Also, could you please release the updated resource map picture somewhere? The one in [Resource] thread is from before the campaign map changes, but even the in-game revealed map from the new campaign [Preview] thread doesn't have the spices locations.

[CadetNewb]

Is there anywhere on the guide or something that gives me an idea on how much each fatigue state reduces the stats of a unit? I was watching an old video on Rome II from Maximus Decimus Meridus about vanilla fatigue, and was wondering how DeI's differed besides the more in-depth rates units had.

[KAM 2150]

You would need to open DeI files and check them as game does not display it.

[CadetNewb]

Bummer. Could you guys give me a rough ballpark guesstimate of any changes DeI has done to fatigue penalties? Are they more or less than vanilla? Knowing that would be totally ok for me.

[Dardo21]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

threshold_fresh	stat_melee_defence	1
threshold_fresh	stat_reloading	1
threshold_fresh	stat_speed	1
threshold_fresh	scalar_entity_acceleration_modifier	1,05
threshold_fresh	scalar_bracing	1,05
threshold_fresh	stat_charge_bonus	1,1
threshold_active	stat_melee_defence	0,95
threshold_active	stat_reloading	1
threshold_winded	stat_melee_defence	0,9
threshold_winded	stat_reloading	0,9
threshold_winded	stat_speed	0,9
threshold_winded	scalar_entity_acceleration_modifier	0,9
threshold_winded	scalar_bracing	0,9
threshold_winded	stat_charge_bonus	0,9
threshold_tired	stat_melee_defence	0,8
threshold_tired	stat_reloading	0,8
threshold_tired	scalar_entity_acceleration_modifier	0,8
threshold_tired	stat_speed	0,8
threshold_tired	scalar_bracing	0,8
threshold_tired	stat_charge_bonus	0,8
threshold_very_tired	stat_melee_defence	0,7
threshold_very_tired	stat_reloading	0,6
threshold_very_tired	stat_speed	0,7
threshold_very_tired	scalar_entity_acceleration_modifier	0,7
threshold_very_tired	scalar_bracing	0,7
threshold_very_tired	stat_charge_bonus	0,7
threshold_exhausted	stat_melee_defence	0,6
threshold_exhausted	stat_reloading	0,4
threshold_exhausted	stat_speed	0,6
threshold_exhausted	scalar_entity_acceleration_modifier	0,6
threshold_exhausted	scalar_bracing	0,6
threshold_exhausted	stat_charge_bonus	0,65
combat	stat_speed	1
combat	scalar_entity_acceleration_modifier	1
under_fire_small_arms	stat_speed	0,5
under_fire_small_arms	scalar_bracing	0,8
under_fire_artillery	scalar_bracing	0,8
under_fire_artillery	stat_speed	0,5

Those are the effects ranking from fresh to exhausted

[Fest]

I tried playing a campaign with 1.2.3e and it seems like there is something odd with replenishment. I seem to recall you only need 10% of a particular population class to replenish but at times I had that but in the next turn no replenishment occurred. Just wanted to double-check I'm not misunderstanding something. I was only using DEI downloaded from here, no other mods.

[CadetNewb]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

threshold_fresh	stat_melee_defence	1
threshold_fresh	stat_reloading	1
threshold_fresh	stat_speed	1
threshold_fresh	scalar_entity_acceleration_modifier	1,05
threshold_fresh	scalar_bracing	1,05
threshold_fresh	stat_charge_bonus	1,1
threshold_active	stat_melee_defence	0,95
threshold_active	stat_reloading	1
threshold_winded	stat_melee_defence	0,9
threshold_winded	stat_reloading	0,9
threshold_winded	stat_speed	0,9
threshold_winded	scalar_entity_acceleration_modifier	0,9
threshold_winded	scalar_bracing	0,9
threshold_winded	stat_charge_bonus	0,9
threshold_tired	stat_melee_defence	0,8
threshold_tired	stat_reloading	0,8
threshold_tired	scalar_entity_acceleration_modifier	0,8
threshold_tired	stat_speed	0,8
threshold_tired	scalar_bracing	0,8
threshold_tired	stat_charge_bonus	0,8
threshold_very_tired	stat_melee_defence	0,7
threshold_very_tired	stat_reloading	0,6
threshold_very_tired	stat_speed	0,7
threshold_very_tired	scalar_entity_acceleration_modifier	0,7
threshold_very_tired	scalar_bracing	0,7
threshold_very_tired	stat_charge_bonus	0,7
threshold_exhausted	stat_melee_defence	0,6
threshold_exhausted	stat_reloading	0,4
threshold_exhausted	stat_speed	0,6
threshold_exhausted	scalar_entity_acceleration_modifier	0,6
threshold_exhausted	scalar_bracing	0,6
threshold_exhausted	stat_charge_bonus	0,65
combat	stat_speed	1
combat	scalar_entity_acceleration_modifier	1
under_fire_small_arms	stat_speed	0,5
under_fire_small_arms	scalar_bracing	0,8
under_fire_artillery	scalar_bracing	0,8
under_fire_artillery	stat_speed	0,5

Those are the effects ranking from fresh to exhausted

Thanks a bunch, it's really food for thought!

[Dardo21]

I tried playing a campaign with 1.2.3e and it seems like there is something odd with replenishment. I seem to recall you only need 10% of a particular population class to replenish but at times I had that but in the next turn no replenishment occurred. Just wanted to double-check I'm not misunderstanding something. I was only using DEI downloaded from here, no other mods.

Normal replenishment still comes into count, during winter and fall, replenishment can be reduced below 1% so you won't replenish, other events can affect it too.

[Fest]

Normal replenishment still comes into count, during winter and fall, replenishment can be reduced below 1% so you won't replenish, other events can affect it too.

Ok well I thought I checked for that. I went to older saves and I couldn't find it happening again to the scale I found. But I played a bit more tonight, but I couldn't get a good example other than I took a minor settlement and ended up with an army that only needed to replenish a few troops: 3 2nd class (over 2 units) and 8 3rd class (on 1 unit)

According to the region population, it has 20 2nd class and 40 3rd class after occupation. The army itself has the green plus signs over the three units, yet when I hit end turn and it gets to my next turn they don't replenish (the region population shows the population classes having increased as well). So I don't know if this is the same problem as I thought I was encountering earlier because in this case the lack of replenishment is completely trivial but it is the best I could find at this point.

Edit: Actually it seems to have zeroed out the 3rd class population on the next turn, it went from 40 to 0. Not sure why that happened?

[Dardo21]

Your garrison replenishes as well.

[lequintal69]

Hey, two suggestions that I had in my mind recently

Would on consider tweaking the fertility so supplies play a greater role? Atm, at least in my experience, regions rarely get supplies shortages.
Maybe dropping the base fertility by big value could make it more relevant?

Something like
150 for high fertility regions, 100 for medium, 50 for low fertility/desertic regions


Secondly, would you consider having bigger differences between main cities buildings (like royal estate, satrapy, etc). Atm, the differences are (IMO) quite minor: a lil bit of PO vs higher income.
Maybe add some roster differences, or some loyalty penalty, or just bigger PO penalty, or limit some buildings to the royal estates

cheers

[NihilNovi_SubSol]

Hello!

I don't know if my previous post was just overlooked, or it was ignored because it was a dumb question. But on the off chance it was the former, I'm just going to repost my question from earlier.

Namely, I wondered if the trend seen with Syracuse's Gastraphetes - making AoR units into regular roster units where appropriate - could be extrapolated to other factions, like Syrian heavy archers for Seleukidai. If that's ahistorical or unbalanced, I accept that, but I was just curious what you guys thought. Thanks!

[Dresden]

Hey, two suggestions that I had in my mind recently

Would on consider tweaking the fertility so supplies play a greater role? Atm, at least in my experience, regions rarely get supplies shortages.
Maybe dropping the base fertility by big value could make it more relevant?

Something like
150 for high fertility regions, 100 for medium, 50 for low fertility/desertic regions


Secondly, would you consider having bigger differences between main cities buildings (like royal estate, satrapy, etc). Atm, the differences are (IMO) quite minor: a lil bit of PO vs higher income.
Maybe add some roster differences, or some loyalty penalty, or just bigger PO penalty, or limit some buildings to the royal estates

cheers

I think these are good ideas, especially the buildings. I agree the supply system needs to have a bit more impact but the reason it currently is a bit neutered is that we had an issue for a long time with AI armies sitting and starving regions. So some of the steps we took to address that may have overnerfed some supply consumption issues. I may also make a supply hardcore submod at some point.

Hello!

I don't know if my previous post was just overlooked, or it was ignored because it was a dumb question. But on the off chance it was the former, I'm just going to repost my question from earlier.

Namely, I wondered if the trend seen with Syracuse's Gastraphetes - making AoR units into regular roster units where appropriate - could be extrapolated to other factions, like Syrian heavy archers for Seleukidai. If that's ahistorical or unbalanced, I accept that, but I was just curious what you guys thought. Thanks!

Maybe on a specific unit by unit basis. The reason we did it for that one unit was it honestly should have been there from the start rather than AOR. Most AOR units are meant to represent the local segments that were historically used but not necessarily part of that faction's cultural identity.

[NihilNovi_SubSol]

Maybe on a specific unit by unit basis. The reason we did it for that one unit was it honestly should have been there from the start rather than AOR. Most AOR units are meant to represent the local segments that were historically used but not necessarily part of that faction's cultural identity.

Thank you very much for the reply Dresden! I understand your rationale, and I guess Gastraphetes are kind of a unique case. I think it would be really cool and thematic if Seleukidai were able to capitalize on their well-established control over Syria to recruit armoured archers in greater numbers than their enemies, but I totally defer to your team's opinion of its historicity and balance. Thanks for reading.

[Fest]

Your garrison replenishes as well.

That wasn't it either. I decided I'd try to debug it, I enabled logging and I found this in PoR2_MP_log.txt

Total UI Population for: emp_judea_tyros = 35702
UI Noble Class: 10
UI Citizen Class: 20
UI Poor Class: 40
UI Foreign Class: 35632
Total real Population for: emp_judea_tyros = 35484
real Noble Class: 10
real Citizen Class: 20
real Poor Class: 0
real Foreign Class: 35454

So something seems to zeroes out real Poor class, and if you save it, that gets written out, the UI population seems to get the right number. As best I can tell in Population.lua, SetRegionOccupied gets called which sets the values 10, 20 and 40 due to occupying the settlement and the values look ok to me. But by the time MPLogPop gets called region_table[regionName][3] must have been set to 0 somewhere. Is there another AddEventCallBack I should look at that would get called between those two?

Edit: Actually I think you were right now and that it was garrison related, there is a call to RemovePop and it seems to be zeroing out the 3rd class population. So I guess maybe it is working overall. Seems odd to me that UI and 'real' population numbers need to be tracked separately because it gives you the impression you'll get replenishment when you won't. Given it takes so long to replenish the garrison, I wonder why I never encountered this before.

Edit2: So it seems to be caused by a building in the settlement triggering a new garrison unit being created and hence you lose the population from your real population but it doesn't update the UI. Damn lousy garrison unit if you ask me.

[bohema]

Any chance I can get my hands on Aghai's super awesome looking Empire Divided assets? Just the ones finished so far.

[FlashHeart07]

Any chance I can get my hands on Aghai's super awesome looking Empire Divided assets? Just the ones finished so far.

When he is done they will be added to the mod. If you by any reason need them before that. Contact Ahiga in person.

Sendt fra min SM-G930F med Tapatalk

[iporto9393]

I have to suggestions/requests for the new version. I love this mod so much and the incredible amount of work and dedication of the team! Thanks, guys!

1) Illyrians pirates. It'd be insteresting if Illyrian troops had Trihemolia as transports (barbarian transports if not feasible). That would create a unique challenge for the player to beat, and a refreshing gameplay if you choose their campaign.

2) Make Syracuse Great Again. Syracuse's unit roster was a little depleted, they used to have a medium infantry back then (Samnite Swordsmen if I'm not mistaken), Dart Slingers etc. While I'm aware that the latter was historically inaccurate and the former was a little redundant (considering the Bruttian Infantry), they give diversity to the gameplay. Half of DEI's awesomeness is about unit diversity!

Speaking about diversity, Syracusan Guards (Phoura Tyrannou) bare a very similar equipment and modelthan the normal Syracuse Hoplites. A overhaul to the look of Syracuse's most elite unit would be very welcomed, perhaps more Corinthian Helmets, musculatas, and even perhaps "Thracian Helmets" would make them flash out!

3) Skiritai ("Spartan Commandos"). I have no idea if this is modifiable, however, despite having "remain hidden whilst firing", Skiritai Peltast will always be discovered before firing range even when in forests and in foggy weather. Maybe making them stealthier or increasing the range a bit could make them more useful. It's a very interesting concept of unit! Shogun 2 (specially with Radious Mod) had plenty of tactical possibilities for stealth units.

[Dresden]

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions!

[FlashHeart07]

Nice suggestions. Though as I remember we dont add units just to add units. That would just end up in inflated unit rosters with a UI which is already unable to cope.
Secondly. One of the reasons why the AI is able to react as it does is because we increased their detection range. Though we could perhaps make an på exception for some units

Sendt fra min SM-G930F med Tapatalk