Master Of Strategy Sengoku (MoSS) (2019/20/03)

[Jean-Louis Le Gueux]

Got another question sorry bit of a beginner at this mod but i'm having difficulty being able recruit some units that appear on the buildings but not appear on the recruitment tab. For example I built a samurai hall but I can't recruit any katana samurai. Is there something else i need to build or is it some art i need?

If the card is greyed out (impossible to click on it), and u still haven't figured it out by now, it either means you've reached the limit of recruitement of this kind of unit (too many of them), or u do not have enough money, or indeed some bushido techniques or trading goods (weapons, iron, crafts or whatnot) are missing.

[sgj2346]

Seems like the map is the problem. May I suggest the excellent mod "Strongholds Of The Samurai", which adds many many awesome real castles to the battle maps and whose author made compatible with MoSS? I'm currently using it and siege battles are pretty awesome. Weierstrass, maybe u should include a link to it in ur description; it's a cool mod to use in tandem with yours

Will check that out. Is it save game compatible or will I need to restart a campaign?

[Jean-Louis Le Gueux]

Will check that out. Is it save game compatible or will I need to restart a campaign?

Pretty sure it is, as anything purely visual. Still don't take my word for it and try it out yourself; if the strongholds (level 2 and so forth upgrades) do not spawn new castles, then it is no save game compatible!

[Weierstrass]

Hello guys. I need testers for another kind of balance. Basically all is faster to build and recuit. Units are cheaper to recruit and mantain, but buildings a bit more expensive. Techs are shorter and early penalty around unrest is lower.
The negative points is the AI is a bit more suicidal (was required to avoid snowballing that much).
So please i need you to tell me how you fell about it.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pp...n109DVq_O3aa1v

[Natias]

This is a very good mod. Best one I've played for Shogun 2. Thank you for making it Weierstrass.

One thing though, the no agents optional mod doesn't work, and agents (geisha) make campaigns unplayable. Any other agent removing mod doesn't seem to be working with this, is it possible that you could fix the no agent pack?

[Jean-Louis Le Gueux]

My two cents / suggestions:

_Drop the recruit time of all Ronins to 1: to simulate the fact that they are mercenaries, already ready to serve and trained. I personally never recruit them cause too costly and too much time to train and not that much different from regular samurais. Being so quick to recruit would make them very useful in case of emergency.

_Drop the recruit time of all militia to 1: it’s very hard to get any man in case of emergency, especially early on in the campaign. Making those militia so quick to recruit would be nice, and not a fantasy – for example, the archers need not 3 turns to train, as they could represent local hunters who already know how to manipulate a bow. Maybe leave naginata at 2.

_ Looting cities is game breaking in my opinion: the huge amount of money looted makes the careful management of your economy a bit useless at times. I think it should be reduced.

_Agents less costly: seeing how quick there are to be removed from the game by other agents, I keep recruiting them, to the point when I can’t no more due to their cost. And enemy agents are free to kill all my generals XD I made monk: 300, Metsuke: 400, Ninja: 600 and Geisha: 800. Also reducing their number to counterbalance their cheapness and avoid spamming by enemy factions.

Weierstrass, I’ve been working on a new general skill tree after seeing how easy they are to be killed, and ended up reworking the whole tree. It adds many new branches, realistic (and balanced I hope) ones. I’m about to upload it as a standalone, but you would you be interest in getting a sneak peek at it? I’ll gladly share it with you.

[Weierstrass]

Okay gonna check the agents pack.
1) Mercenaries: you ate right
2) Right again, archers still 2 maybe
3) How much? 50% of the current reward? 20%?
4) Could be. With new balance they are not that expensive. But still expensive

About the balance. Yup show it to me

[Jean-Louis Le Gueux]

Okay gonna check the agents pack.
1) Mercenaries: you ate right
2) Right again, archers still 2 maybe
3) How much? 50% of the current reward? 20%?
4) Could be. With new balance they are not that expensive. But still expensive

About the balance. Yup show it to me

I'll tell you what I exactly did tweaking your mod; you may find some of these ideas good ones (or not ):

a)Reduced all bow units accuracy: no more snipers on the battlefield, specially when they accurately shoot above wall.
Min=5 (militia bow, hence their being recruited in 1 turn)
Max=38 (heros chosokabe)
One has to keep in mind that there are many buildings/general abilities/experience bonuses that quickly add up and can make archers really op. Just so you know, I'm right in the middle of a new campaign with these changes, and they are quite good, don't be frightened by such low numbers

b)Greatly reduced accuracy of artillery: really, those handmortars or rocket guys litterally using laser guided projectiles is really annoying Same with rocket ships which can pinpoint their shots (on a moving ship!! come on...)

c)Reduced women fighting abilities...don't want to be sexist, but that Onnabushi or nuns are better than men with the same level of training is a bit...well, I'll say no more. Example, IIRC, samurais naginata are 8 or 10 attack, Onna are maybe 16 or more.

d)Boosted moral of rebel units: they tend to rout too easily, especially after losing many men due to their climbing walls - even more true with SOTS mod and the new castles it adds, so no more will rebellions be taken lightly.


e)Added bonus of armour to ashigaru (+1) to the armour smither building and reduced to 1 all the armour bonuses of the armour smither guild: I found it unfair how Ashigaru where left without bonuses with the armour smither, especially when it may be very hard to get to it and beyond due to the lack of proper tech/resource. I don’t know, that’s my little tweak


f)About looting, I’d say the max you should get would be about 4000. When you conquer 3 towns on the row that gives you 10000 thousands gold each, you end up with 30000 in your coffer, which is huge when most of the time you fly around 5000-10000 gold in reserve. Same with tribute asked to AI when you’re besieging their last settlement: I once was able to ask for 10000 per turn for…10 turns, loooooooooool, getting 100000 in the end. I don’t know how to change both these parameters, though, so I restrict myself and try not to loot too often or ask unfair tibutes.

g)Made special/unique units look…more unique. I changed for example the look of the Mogami samurai which looked like just any other samurai, the tokugawa heros, the ninja kisho; the samurai units look less armoured than their veteran counterpart…well, quite a few other changes too.


h)I ‘m sending you my mod link through mp

[Natias]

d)Boosted moral of rebel units: they tend to rout too easily, especially after losing many men due to their climbing walls - even more true with SOTS mod and the new castles it adds, so no more will rebellions be taken lightly.

Strange. In my games the AI never loses a single man when climbing up walls. I lose around 50% every time though so I never bother climbing walls, only using gates. I'm using the version downloaded from here, not the workshop one if that makes a difference I don't know.

[Jean-Louis Le Gueux]

Strange. In my games the AI never loses a single man when climbing up walls. I lose around 50% every time though so I never bother climbing walls, only using gates. I'm using the version downloaded from here, not the workshop one if that makes a difference I don't know.

It shouldn't make a difference, as I have the same version as you have. But, as I mentioned, I'm using SOTS (Stronghold of the Samurai), that may be the difference Or maybe a mod that conflicts ?

[shamelessamurai]

My experience with this balance (Mori):
-faster build it makes me run out of food so i need a more careful planing , the higher cost it's not an impediment
- faster recruit and lower costs it makes the ronin a viable option for a quick mercenary army
- tech seems a little too fast , i run out of koku'food very fast trying to bring up all the incoming improvements
- AI is on BANZAI mode , in a few years i've seen clans rising from 3 provinces to 10-15 and dying very fast to the 5 provinces neighbor who goes on the same route and the cycle repeats himself .... it seems that , the more powerful they get the weaker they become ; WAT !? i think the AI don't takes enough time to consolidate the newly conquered provinces ...
As me ,Mori , i was at peace with everybody , alliances not needed , but my neighbors were having a slaughtering fest .
I like this mod, but i have 2 "complains" : 1. food requirement it's overwhelming and you don't get bonus from extra; 2. the missing of the borders and roads for the new provinces , it's not possible to have that ?
I will wait your next update . gg

[Athenslaser]

I will start testing and playing most importantly, today. thank you very much my friend good day

[Jean-Louis Le Gueux]

I like this mod, but i have 2 "complains" : 1. food requirement it's overwhelming and you don't get bonus from extra;

Well, I am chosokabe, 25+ provinces under control, and I must admit food is now uneasy to handle. But a good challenge! At first, you don’t pay attention to it, as you don’t own many provinces and the lack of proper techniques/researches prevents you from upgrading fully your towns. But, as the game progresses, food becomes an INTERESTING challenge, not a “problematic”one IMO. So, how do I manage it?
You must keep in mind that not every town is to be upgraded. I.e, out of my 25 towns, only 2 are, and maybe only 8 others are well developed (like 3-5 are my recruitment centers -one ashigaru units, one samurai units, one powder units, 2 naval units, etc,.), the others focusing on entertainment, production, naval commerce, etc,. The rest, well they exist to support the whole clan when it comes to food production: I build farm towns, fishing towns/ports, upgrade the fields, granaries, don’t construct much that need food (like maybe one temple or entertainment stuff to prevent uprising), develop techs that improve food production and that’s it. This makes for a nice game, where there exist only a few major cities, while others are minor, lesser towns. So, I find it well balanced.

[Weierstrass]

Nice it was kind of the point. What about maybe a bit extra food from farm towns.
What about Ai, attacking armies, etc etc?

[shamelessamurai]

playing with Satake new clan with the new balance , i've got in ~ 14 turns , ~8 dead Daimyo .... Oda Nobunaga was the first lol .... i think the AI is too optimistic with it's chances in a battle

[Weierstrass]

Okay guys i have another balance. I made the AI more of a mid point when it comes to attacking. I mean not that brainless. Also gave some units caps bonuses.
The overall should be a more energetic AI + a less discouraging economy (less the food stuff were you will have to think a bit more) compared to the normal version. To be honest i'm not that into modding after all this years and you can see it by the amount of testing and changes i'm making into it. So i kind of need the feedback to know if these changes are okay so i upload them to the normal version. Thanks in advance for that.

Also theorically looting should get you wide less money.

Here the files (only for new clans pack, do not use with old clans pack as it wont work as desired).
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-n...UCWltHrLyeLNl8

[Weierstrass]

Idk if there is someone still watching but to keep you updated i decided to do some works around the mod and the AI seems to be in the spot i want. I also did some other improvements like fixing some choke points, chaging the geisha skin to a kunoichi, reducing ui size (one like effects), normalizing the fertilities (some grounds were different for the province lands and farms), added satake clans effects, etc.
I'll change also the way the mod is assambled to make it easier for the players. Lot of optionals will be deleted for sake of simplicity

[prince-93]

Still watching and good news! But I was waiting the release of something near a definitive version to start a campaign because I see you are improving IA and I was busy for testing experimental versions. I'll wait for updates on Steam both on main and alternative clans files.
It's about a year that I don't play Shogun 2. Did you resolve pathfinding on campaign map wich made impossible to pass in some points like in West Shikoku (the castle in the west border, you could pass only coming from North I remember)?
And there was the annoying fact of Oda or Tokugawa daimyo dying first turns. Is it solved?
About the possibility to have a script that allow generals to not be killed when inside a castle after a lost siege paying a ransom? Nothing possible?
When do you think to update on Steam both main files 1?

[Weierstrass]

Well i doubt there will be a definitive edition. From time to time i do changes but most are quite small. But the next one will be significative and these versions i'm uploading are kind of tests (note: i wont recommend to use them any longer as the one i'm using right now is better).
Next version will be uploaded with files names re arranged and i'll delete all old version (keeping the last vaulted for the ones that want to finish the campaing).
Pathfinding have been improved a lot. Last check point i found will be solved next version. I doubt there is any other.
Oda and Tokugawa is hard to solve. There you have Oda, Tokugawa, Imagawa, Takeda, Hojo, Honganji. All them are playable and mayor, so imaginate it's kind of hard to balance. I noted Oda survive most of the time, while Tokugawa and Imagawa struggles.
About scripts, there are all hardcoded.
About update. Well as i said i will re upload the files, not just update. Will be done ... hmmm not sure. I want to test it a bit longer. I could do it this week or next one. But i dont want to rush it or let you down guys.

[prince-93]

And what about giving proper dimension to castles at the start but mantaining them with no buildings inside?
The number of provinces of each clan already reflect their time period territorial expansion and so the size of each castle should do too. No? But letting people decide what to build inside.
You can make this for some major settlements only, to not take out too much decisions for the player but making the choice to take a castle rather than another more important.
In my opinion this fit better also the choice to have changed the start date to 1562.