[Official] Reform requirements - as at 2.3

[Super Troll]

When will Macedon reforms be implemented?

[Simpelicity]

When will Macedon reforms be implemented?

When it is ready.

[Wulfburk]

what would a makedon reform be?

[Ferdiad]

Similar to the one in EB1 I assume.

[Simpelicity]

Heh nah, it'll probably be similar to the old Seleukia, but with the romans.

After a couple defeats to the romans, the makedons will have access to a new type of phalangitai that will throw their long spears before charging with their swords out!

[Ferdiad]

IIRC they got a heavy phalangilite or sometime like that?

[Simpelicity]

From the wiki : Hysteroi Pezhetairoi

18 attack with the pike, 10 with the sword, and 24 total defence, and that's without experience. People are already complaining phalanxes are OP, haha, imagine if those were in already

[Ferdiad]

Can't wait for people to complain that not everyone in that unit wears mail.

[Sarkiss]

I really don't know if the text of the third reforms is talking SPECIFICALLY about a resurrection of the Achaemenids, but if so, I'm probably closer to your feelings on the subject. A bit too deterministic and with a questionable basis. On the other hand, there is an "Eastern Imperial" religion which many factions can convert to, and the third Armenian Reform is based on that. That does NOT mean "Persian" per se (or it least it probably shouldn't), but rather a "Persian-Empire-like" autocratic style of government, suitable for large Eastern Empires.



Armenia and Pontos both get the Khuveshavagan, which is a very powerful Heavy Cav. Not cataphracts, but usable in much the same way. If you must have actual cataphracts, the only ones in game belong to Parthia, so it should be possible for somebody to create a sub-mod extending Cat availability to more factions (Saka and Sauromatae need them even more than Armenia, IMO). As for when the next group of new-unit-cats will be become available? Probably not for quite some while.

thanks for reminding of the Khuveshavagan, they are indeed fearsome albeit not recruitable (not for Pontus at least, iirc).

As of reforms, I wasnt aware there was the third one, if thats what you meant. I only recall pan-Caucasian and Persian ones. regarding the Armenian cataphracts, I could swear that ages ago JMRC mentioned in one of the treads that the work on them was completed. I might be wrong though.

[Porphyrogenita]

The Pan Caucasian reforms do not enable the recruitment of Khuveshavagan. Instead, the FM bodyguards are Khuveshavagan (as they are at the start of the game). Whilst these are undoubtedly very useful and effective cavalry (and cheap to maintain as bodyguards), it would be nice if they were recruitable, together with some horse archers and guard inf as in EBI. That said, I personally really like the reforms and the Orontid Dynasty options. I recognise however that it is early days and the additional units will be added in due course. From an open beta testing perspective, the refoms should now trigger correctly - that said I am not sure how/why the RKH building appears as buildable in the BB (with no intermediate CTK) in Trapezus prior to the reforms, or why Karkathiokerta can build a RKH without a Royal Satrapy step after the reforms.

[Doulkus Pontikus]

I managed to get the reforms with Pontos.
You need to capture at least 9 regions among them Mazaka, Sinope, Trapezous, Kutatisi, Chersonesos and Pantikapaion.
After you capture each city you have to impose a Pontic Adm to get the Imperial Culture up. In my opinion "Strategos ton Phylon" is the best option. At first there are no recruitement options available but you get access to a lot more buildings and Native barracks, so that's that. Plus it only takes two rounds to finish.

If you meet the requirements you get a message saying that you are now "King of Kings and Protector of All Greeks".
One major issue is that after the reforms you experience some Public Order problems to most cities especially on those that the Eastern Imperial culture is not high (which is the case in almost all your cities!)
When Imperial culture rises above 35% you can built the "Satrapy" Gov which only takes 8 turns and gives you access to "Harmata Drepanyfora". I' ve played EB1 and never used chariots since they tended to run amok more times that not, but in EB2 that is not the case! The chariots work as super heavy cavalry, they don't run berserk and if used properly they spread chaos especially against the phalanx!
After you built Satrapy your Imperial culture should rise to 50% and you get access to "Basiliki Patris". That's the highest level of Pontic Gov and gives a law bonus, some economical bonuses and most importantly access to Kuveshanagha Kinsmen Cavalry which is devastating against most units and Peltastai Logades which at least for now is the best infantry Pontos has access to.
An other option is to built "Hypobasileia" which is almost like the "Basiliki Patris" but with fewer economic boosts. At least you don' t have to wait for the Imperial culture to get above 50%.

I hope that the Pontic roster is not finished yet. Because it's unfair not to have access to any "native" phalanx units.
I mean shouldn't Pontos be able to recruit Pandodapoi Phallangites after the Imperial reforms? Or have an Elite Infantry unit of their own?
Historically speaking Late Mithridatic army reforms made Pontos quite powerful military wise. Maybe not powerful enough to beat the Romans but they managed to wage three Wars against them, with the first two quite succesful.
So in my opinion a Pontic Royal Agima and a Roman style infantry Unit should be implemented.

[Simpelicity]

Thx Doulkus. Updated the OP with info about the culture switch.

[malibu.stacey]

Hm, it seems I have a little problem with the Attalid kingdom . I own the 5 cities mentioned in the OP, I had 3 major battles against the galation Eleutheroi (I let Ankyra rebel thrice and added some units via the console) and had 2 big battles against the Seleucids, nothing happend though. On a side note, is there a message when you get the middle and late reforms? I didn´t get one after 81 turns.

[Wulfburk]

Did the eleutheroi armies had more than 11 units?

[Simpelicity]

Hm, it seems I have a little problem with the Attalid kingdom . I own the 5 cities mentioned in the OP, I had 3 major battles against the galation Eleutheroi (I let Ankyra rebel thrice and added some units via the console) and had 2 big battles against the Seleucids, nothing happend though. On a side note, is there a message when you get the middle and late reforms? I didn´t get one after 81 turns.

I don't know, I was just reading script. I'm glad you're testing it out though!
Turns have nothing to do with era change, that was a mistake on my part. The AI gets it from turns. Players can only get it with the required number of settlements. The OP now stands corrected.

As for the Attalid kingdom, I've also verified it and what I wrote should work. Are you sure everything I specified regarding the large battles was met? Meanwhile, I'll copy the relevant script here, maybe someone else has an idea of why it didn't work.

Here's the script to count large galatian battles :

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

declare_counter pergamon_num_maj_battles_galatia
monitor_event PostBattle FactionType f_pergamon
and WonBattle
and GeneralFoughtFaction slave
and IsRegionOneOf region_103
and I_BattleEnemyArmyNumberOfUnits > 10
and NumFriendsInBattle > 1500
and not I_ConflictType Naval
and not I_ConflictType Withdraw

inc_counter pergamon_num_maj_battles_galatia 1
if I_CompareCounter pergamon_num_maj_battles_galatia > 1
terminate_monitor
end_if
end_monitor

And the script for the seleukid large battles :

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

declare_counter pergamon_num_maj_battles_seleukid
monitor_event PostBattle FactionType f_pergamon
and WonBattle
and GeneralFoughtFaction f_seleukid
and I_BattleEnemyArmyNumberOfUnits > 10
and NumFriendsInBattle > 1000
and not I_ConflictType Naval
and not I_ConflictType Withdraw

inc_counter pergamon_num_maj_battles_seleukid 1
if I_CompareCounter pergamon_num_maj_battles_seleukid > 1
terminate_monitor
end_if
end_monitor

And the script for the kingship itself :

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

if I_LocalFaction f_pergamon
and I_CompareCounter pergamon_num_maj_battles_seleukid > 1
and I_CompareCounter pergamon_num_maj_battles_galatia > 1
and I_SettlementOwner sett_096 f_pergamon
and I_SettlementOwner sett_097 f_pergamon
and I_SettlementOwner sett_099 f_pergamon
and I_SettlementOwner sett_102 f_pergamon
and I_SettlementOwner sett_103 f_pergamon
set_event_counter ecPergamonKingship 1
terminate_monitor
end_if

Perhaps I am misinterpreting the NumFriendsInBattle part? Hm.

[Principe Alessandro]

Uhm I think that I've met all the requirements to transform Armenia into a kingdom, at least this is what I get from the message that pop ups every turn, there is also a requirement about the amount of Eastern Imperial culture before you can transform Armenia into a kingdom?

[Simpelicity]

Uhm I think that I've met all the requirements to transform Armenia into a kingdom, at least this is what I get from the message that pop ups every turn, there is also a requirement about the amount of Eastern Imperial culture before you can transform Armenia into a kingdom?

The message about your authority rising? That's not about the kingdom reform. Actually, I'm not quite sure what it's about. But that's not the kingdom reform.
The culture requirement comes into play for the empire reform, after you become a kingdom.
Make sure you are with EB 2.01. There was a mistake in the hai script that stopped them from becoming a kingdom. It was fixed with 2.01.
Last page, Porphyrogenita gives a few more details about the hai kingdom reform, if you're interested.

[Wulfburk]

I don't know, I was just reading script. I'm glad you're testing it out though!
Turns have nothing to do with era change, that was a mistake on my part. The AI gets it from turns. Players can only get it with the required number of settlements. The OP now stands corrected.

I had 21 settlements and i didnt get any message about the middle nor the late reforms (and i also had gone through both turn requests you thought it was needed). Is it possible to see what would happen if these 2 reforms were activated, through looking at the scripts? Or you can only find out in game.

[Simpelicity]

I had 21 settlements and i didnt get any message about the middle nor the late reforms (and i also had gone through both turn requests you thought it was needed). Is it possible to see what would happen if these 2 reforms were activated, through looking at the scripts? Or you can only find out in game.

You are in luck! This is one of the few reforms someone bothered to annotate, and pretty much the only one that got annotated with the effect of the reform. So, quoting from the script notes, middle era "allows units like Thorakitai and Lonchophoroi" and late era "allows units like Thorakitai Epilekoi".

After a quick search in the export_descr_unit file, the lonchophoroi doesn't have any stats stated and the thorakitai epilekoi wasn't found, but I found the thorakitai. So, do you have any Thorakitai units?

[malibu.stacey]

As for the Attalid kingdom, I've also verified it and what I wrote should work. Are you sure everything I specified regarding the large battles was met?

Pretty sure, yes. Hm, maybe I´ll fight one more seleucid full stack and see what happens.
The regions are 100% correct? I couldn´t find a reliable map of the time of Attalus I. in a quick internet search to compare it with the regions in the script.

By the way, thank you very much for taking the time to compile all the information about the reforms

Oh, and I don´t think Thorakitai are in-game yet, they may have an entry in the EDU, but I´ve seen them absolutely nowhere.