[Official] Reform requirements - as at 2.3

[Porphyrogenita]

I finally got the Hayasadan reforms to work:
I did change the script set counter to "1" as suggested in this thread: http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...-reforms/page2
The script did not fire until I had taken Karkathiokerta and built a Hayasadan administration building in it.
I already had Aramvir and 6 other adjacent provinces but Trapezous did not have a Hayasadan administration building as it cannot have one until it is 12000+ size.
This still left me (prior to taking Karkathokerta) with 7 provinces and 6 Hayasadan Administration buildings...
Anyway, it works and I can build my Royal Satrap and then my Cataphracts.

[Simpelicity]

The script did not fire until I had taken Karkathiokerta and built a Hayasadan administration building in it.
I already had Aramvir and 6 other adjacent provinces but Trapezous did not have a Hayasadan administration building as it cannot have one until it is 12000+ size.
This still left me (prior to taking Karkathokerta) with 7 provinces and 6 Hayasadan Administration buildings...

I looked into it, and I think I figured it out. It counts the gov buildings as "number completed", meaning you probably have to have built it yourself, meaning Armavir's starting kingdom would not count. Unless you rebuild it maybe?

OP updated with the Hayasdan script fix btw. Or rather, a link to it.

[Porphyrogenita]

"and then my Cataphracts"... or not as the case may be:
The reforms work but only it seems to allow new buildings:
As noted above. I did change script set counter to "1" as above.
The script did not fire until I had taken Karkathikerta and built a Caucasian Tribal Kingdom (CTK) Hayasadan administration building in it.
I already had Aramvir and 6 other adjacent provinces but Trapezous did not have a Hayasadan administration (other than military administration) building as the building browser shows it cannot have one until it is 12000+ size - whereupon it is eligible for the Royal Kingdom of Hayasadan (RKH), Hayasadan administration. I would note that the RKH building also shows in the Aramvir building browser as being available on reaching 12K pop.
This still left me (prior to taking Karkathiokerta) with 7 provinces and 6 Hayasadan administration (with CTKs) buildings however so the reforms should have triggered earlier (however see Simpelicity's comment above).
Anyway, Pan Caucasian reforms did trigger and this gave me the option of building either a Royal Satrapy or a Satrapy in Aramvir and a Satrapy in the other provinces.
I built the Royal Satrapy in Aramvir and this enabled me to build the RKH in Aramvir. Checking the building browser fro Aramvir it showed the Hayasadan administration building progressions as military administration>>CTK>>Satrapy>>Some other strange Hellenic satrapy>>Royal Satrapy>>RKH.
After building the Royal Satrapy I built a few other buildings and then the RKH which replaced the Royal Satrapy building.
In my other provinces I built the ordinary Satrapy building. No other admin buildings were then available (even in Trapezous which had earlier shown the possibility of building RKH). In Karkathiokerta however, the RKH building did appear in the building browser but could not be built.)
The text for the Satrapy/Royal Satrapy referred to building levels of military colonies to obtain your best troops but the only colony types available - Indigenous Military Colonies (IMC) - do not in fact lead to new troop types, nor do any other Satrapal buildings. I built the IMCs to L3 to check.
Although I got the message regarding taking over a Satrapy by Royal control every turn, it was not possible to build a Royal Satrapy in any other province but Aramvir.
Hope this is useful.

[Sarkiss]

would anyone care to please elaborate on how to remove these dubious reforms and turn the faction into an 'ordinary' but playable one?

I do not mind the first reform and am grateful to Foot for implementing it. but the second Persian reform is an improbable couterfactual assumption that shouldnt have been there in the first place, imho, as was discussed at some length here. perhaps the second reform could have been added as optional (if at all possible). otherwise I find its inclusion (and 'straightjacketing' concequences thereof) impossible to defend.

cheers.

[TinyGeneral]

great thread, needs to be stickied

[Simpelicity]

@ Porphy I don't remember seeing a EB team member comment on the broken Hai script. I imagine it's possible that it was meant this way. They could've written the script expecting more hai units to make it into the release, then realised those units wouldn't be ready in time and so disabled the script (easier than removing it entirely and bringing it back later). They could've just put it in notes instead of breaking the script though, so then again, maybe not.

@ Sarkiss Can't help you there. Sounds like a job for modders though. Maybe try the unofficial modding section?

[Kull]

@ Porphy I don't remember seeing a EB team member comment on the broken Hai script.

Fixed in v2.01

[Sarkiss]

Fixed in v2.01

thanks for highlighting this, Kull. does that mean that Armenia's 2nd reform that turns it into a 'Persian empire' is also now fully integrated in its EB1 form?

Simpelicity, thanks for your answer. Hayastan without cataphracts is like an Indian faction without elephants or successors with no phalangites. it isnt playable for me

[Kull]

thanks for highlighting this, Kull. does that mean that Armenia's 2nd reform that turns it into a 'Persian empire' is also now fully integrated in its EB1 form?

I really don't know if the text of the third reforms is talking SPECIFICALLY about a resurrection of the Achaemenids, but if so, I'm probably closer to your feelings on the subject. A bit too deterministic and with a questionable basis. On the other hand, there is an "Eastern Imperial" religion which many factions can convert to, and the third Armenian Reform is based on that. That does NOT mean "Persian" per se (or it least it probably shouldn't), but rather a "Persian-Empire-like" autocratic style of government, suitable for large Eastern Empires.

Simpelicity, thanks for your answer. Hayastan without cataphracts is like an Indian faction without elephants or successors with no phalangites. it isnt playable for me

Armenia and Pontos both get the Khuveshavagan, which is a very powerful Heavy Cav. Not cataphracts, but usable in much the same way. If you must have actual cataphracts, the only ones in game belong to Parthia, so it should be possible for somebody to create a sub-mod extending Cat availability to more factions (Saka and Sauromatae need them even more than Armenia, IMO). As for when the next group of new-unit-cats will be become available? Probably not for quite some while.

[Sarkiss]

I really don't know if the text of the third reforms is talking SPECIFICALLY about a resurrection of the Achaemenids, but if so, I'm probably closer to your feelings on the subject. A bit too deterministic and with a questionable basis. On the other hand, there is an "Eastern Imperial" religion which many factions can convert to, and the third Armenian Reform is based on that. That does NOT mean "Persian" per se (or it least it probably shouldn't), but rather a "Persian-Empire-like" autocratic style of government, suitable for large Eastern Empires.



Armenia and Pontos both get the Khuveshavagan, which is a very powerful Heavy Cav. Not cataphracts, but usable in much the same way. If you must have actual cataphracts, the only ones in game belong to Parthia, so it should be possible for somebody to create a sub-mod extending Cat availability to more factions (Saka and Sauromatae need them even more than Armenia, IMO). As for when the next group of new-unit-cats will be become available? Probably not for quite some while.

thanks for reminding of the Khuveshavagan, they are indeed fearsome albeit not recruitable (not for Pontus at least, iirc).

As of reforms, I wasnt aware there was the third one, if thats what you meant. I only recall pan-Caucasian and Persian ones. regarding the Armenian cataphracts, I could swear that ages ago JMRC mentioned in one of the treads that the work on them was completed. I might be wrong though.

[Super Troll]

When will Macedon reforms be implemented?

[Simpelicity]

When will Macedon reforms be implemented?

When it is ready.

[Wulfburk]

what would a makedon reform be?

[Ferdiad]

Similar to the one in EB1 I assume.

[Simpelicity]

Heh nah, it'll probably be similar to the old Seleukia, but with the romans.

After a couple defeats to the romans, the makedons will have access to a new type of phalangitai that will throw their long spears before charging with their swords out!

[Ferdiad]

IIRC they got a heavy phalangilite or sometime like that?

[Simpelicity]

From the wiki : Hysteroi Pezhetairoi

18 attack with the pike, 10 with the sword, and 24 total defence, and that's without experience. People are already complaining phalanxes are OP, haha, imagine if those were in already

[Ferdiad]

Can't wait for people to complain that not everyone in that unit wears mail.

[Porphyrogenita]

The Pan Caucasian reforms do not enable the recruitment of Khuveshavagan. Instead, the FM bodyguards are Khuveshavagan (as they are at the start of the game). Whilst these are undoubtedly very useful and effective cavalry (and cheap to maintain as bodyguards), it would be nice if they were recruitable, together with some horse archers and guard inf as in EBI. That said, I personally really like the reforms and the Orontid Dynasty options. I recognise however that it is early days and the additional units will be added in due course. From an open beta testing perspective, the refoms should now trigger correctly - that said I am not sure how/why the RKH building appears as buildable in the BB (with no intermediate CTK) in Trapezus prior to the reforms, or why Karkathiokerta can build a RKH without a Royal Satrapy step after the reforms.

[Doulkus Pontikus]

I managed to get the reforms with Pontos.
You need to capture at least 9 regions among them Mazaka, Sinope, Trapezous, Kutatisi, Chersonesos and Pantikapaion.
After you capture each city you have to impose a Pontic Adm to get the Imperial Culture up. In my opinion "Strategos ton Phylon" is the best option. At first there are no recruitement options available but you get access to a lot more buildings and Native barracks, so that's that. Plus it only takes two rounds to finish.

If you meet the requirements you get a message saying that you are now "King of Kings and Protector of All Greeks".
One major issue is that after the reforms you experience some Public Order problems to most cities especially on those that the Eastern Imperial culture is not high (which is the case in almost all your cities!)
When Imperial culture rises above 35% you can built the "Satrapy" Gov which only takes 8 turns and gives you access to "Harmata Drepanyfora". I' ve played EB1 and never used chariots since they tended to run amok more times that not, but in EB2 that is not the case! The chariots work as super heavy cavalry, they don't run berserk and if used properly they spread chaos especially against the phalanx!
After you built Satrapy your Imperial culture should rise to 50% and you get access to "Basiliki Patris". That's the highest level of Pontic Gov and gives a law bonus, some economical bonuses and most importantly access to Kuveshanagha Kinsmen Cavalry which is devastating against most units and Peltastai Logades which at least for now is the best infantry Pontos has access to.
An other option is to built "Hypobasileia" which is almost like the "Basiliki Patris" but with fewer economic boosts. At least you don' t have to wait for the Imperial culture to get above 50%.

I hope that the Pontic roster is not finished yet. Because it's unfair not to have access to any "native" phalanx units.
I mean shouldn't Pontos be able to recruit Pandodapoi Phallangites after the Imperial reforms? Or have an Elite Infantry unit of their own?
Historically speaking Late Mithridatic army reforms made Pontos quite powerful military wise. Maybe not powerful enough to beat the Romans but they managed to wage three Wars against them, with the first two quite succesful.
So in my opinion a Pontic Royal Agima and a Roman style infantry Unit should be implemented.