SSHIP - General Discussion

[kostic]

Yes , i also think that dismounted sergeant at arm should be a later unit ot maybe @kostic can give them a more appropiate armour for s. XII, not partial plate armour...

I note that this unit was not changed in the August version. I had pointed out to @Jurand his anachronism and I thought he could simply put the "light swordsmen" at level ug1 (level 1 improvement) instead.
But he recently wrote to me that the EDB file did not control the appearance of upgraded units, only the base unit.
For the 13th century, the "light swordsmen" unit would work very well in ug1, but that implies that the unit comes from a level 3 armory. On the other hand, the "armored sergeants" unit is stronger than that of the "light swordsmen"...


Conclusion, and given its important presence in the game, I should probably directly change the appearance of the "armored sergeants" so that it is adapted to its time.
Is it good for you @Jurand?

[louigi]

Cavalry is way too OP in this mod.. my clansmen's chieftains, which is supposed to be an elite unit AND good against cavalry got frontally charged by miles from the english and they were absolutely obliterated..

edit: wanted to test again 1v1 in custom battles but miles is not available in custom battles for the english?

sry for all the complaining haha

[j.a.luna]

I note that this unit was not changed in the August version. I had pointed out to @Jurand his anachronism and I thought he could simply put the "light swordsmen" at level ug1 (level 1 improvement) instead.
But he recently wrote to me that the EDB file did not control the appearance of upgraded units, only the base unit.
For the 13th century, the "light swordsmen" unit would work very well in ug1, but that implies that the unit comes from a level 3 armory. On the other hand, the "armored sergeants" unit is stronger than that of the "light swordsmen"...


Conclusion, and given its important presence in the game, I should probably directly change the appearance of the "armored sergeants" so that it is adapted to its time.
Is it good for you @Jurand?

Given that there are already sword units such as light swordsmen and mercenaries such as sergeant swordsmen, do you think it would be possible to rework the current armored sergeant with partial plate armor per unit (non-mercenary) accessible to French, German and perhaps Italian or Danish "bourgeois militia" from the heavy mail event, men with small maces and axes with shields and good armor recruitable in the large cities of central Europe composed of the bourgeois and rich merchants who could afford good armor and weapons. It's just an idea since we currently only have one mace unit in the game (mercenary macemen), and so there is more variety of units (swords, spears, maces, small axes...)It is worth mentioning that in the future it would be good to add more regional units with rarer weapons such as the famous Flemish Goedendag, what do you think?

[MoorsihSultan]

anyway to determine which names should be given to new borb familly members
a tool maybe

[Jurand of Cracow]

I don't know the mechanic but it seems to be a good governor(and definitepy if you want a good taxman) you need to squeeze as much tax as you could get away which are yellow or above. But that means good governor stuck in very high tax rate which is good at giving money but i cannot upgrade settlement. It's not too bad unless you want to build huge city in which case not even food tribite is enough.
Also food tribute lv3 cannot be built despite large city requirement because it require max tier town hall which require huge city. Considering how hard upgarding huge city already is, it should be probably be reworked.

traits - the trade-offs every where. this is bread-and-butter of a good game/mod.
food tribute lvl3 is a building to enable huge cities to grow even more. It's a late-era building, frankly speaking. Paris and Milan grew to the size of 200k very late in the Middle Ages.

I note that this unit was not changed in the August version. I had pointed out to @Jurand his anachronism and I thought he could simply put the "light swordsmen" at level ug1 (level 1 improvement) instead.
But he recently wrote to me that the EDB file did not control the appearance of upgraded units, only the base unit.
For the 13th century, the "light swordsmen" unit would work very well in ug1, but that implies that the unit comes from a level 3 armory. On the other hand, the "armored sergeants" unit is stronger than that of the "light swordsmen"...
Conclusion, and given its important presence in the game, I should probably directly change the appearance of the "armored sergeants" so that it is adapted to its time.
Is it good for you @Jurand?

I don't know. Do what you thinkg it's good. We'll need to review all the rosters in the future and see how they fit together.

Cavalry is way too OP in this mod.. my clansmen's chieftains, which is supposed to be an elite unit AND good against cavalry got frontally charged by miles from the english and they were absolutely obliterated..
edit: wanted to test again 1v1 in custom battles but miles is not available in custom battles for the english?

Cavalry was nerfed a lot for this mod, nerfed enough.
no idea about custom battles, never tried them

a small recommendation, is it possible to make a road inside a mountain (it make this mountain get divided by 2) a then add hides for a possible ambush

not possible to create Myriokefalon so easy...

[Gigantus]

edit: wanted to test again 1v1 in custom battles but miles is not available in custom battles for the english?

You need to find the unit in the export_descr_units file and remove the 'no_custom' entry from it's attribute line. Suggest to make a backup before doing that. Also make sure to choose 'all eras' when setting up your battle.

[Menethil22]

I don't know the mechanic but it seems to be a good governor(and definitepy if you want a good taxman) you need to squeeze as much tax as you could get away which are yellow or above. But that means good governor stuck in very high tax rate which is good at giving money but i cannot upgrade settlement. It's not too bad unless you want to build huge city in which case not even food tribite is enough.

Also food tribute lv3 cannot be built despite large city requirement because it require max tier town hall which require huge city. Considering how hard upgarding huge city already is, it should be probably be reworked.

Putting Varangian in flank? Aren't they just get by enemy lancer? Sounds risky for an elite infantry. I prefer either using my spare cavalry that i only used while enemy rout or spearman to guard archer flank. Sometime i put archer in the front like i positioned my infantry so the cavalry don't bother flanking.

Edit : Ugh. Another poor battle. One time i win very handily but the general escape(cavalry are slow as molases when chasing that even infantry could escape if my cavalry is being finicky) and another time i immidiately quit when the enemy archer start inflicting damage when the previous battle i kill them without worry. I already won stellar victory and i will make sure it repeat but with the general dead because it's a load of bulls.

Many cities aren't meant to reach huge city level so I'm fine with it, I usually manage to get few large ones and possible 2 citadels on high growth area.

Varangian behind the archers, the cav usually go for the archers then my varangian will charge once they are coming. They are bad at meelee the cassualty is usually low. But it require tonnes of micromanagement, switching back and forth between horse archers.

[eyelurker]

traits - the trade-offs every where. this is bread-and-butter of a good game/mod.
food tribute lvl3 is a building to enable huge cities to grow even more. It's a late-era building, frankly speaking. Paris and Milan grew to the size of 200k very late in the Middle Ages.

For what reason though? Once you convert it into huge city you don't need more population. It's better to have more huge cities than one huge city with really large population which is why i demolish the food tribute in Constantinople when i play Roman.

I don't think cavalry need to be nerfed if only because cavalry have been designed in the gameplay to be overpowered that it's cannot really be change unless cavalry are reduced to even weaker than scout which obviously isn't ideal. But infantry could be buffed. In EB2 infantry have a good enough durability to hold the line even with enemy cavalry charge despite having less stats than heavy infantry here. I admit i don't know how EB2 achieve this though.

[kostic]

Originally Posted by louigi
edit: wanted to test again 1v1 in custom battles but miles is not available in custom battles for the english?

Originally Posted by Gigantus You need to find the unit in the export_descr_units file and remove the 'no_custom' entry from it's attribute line. Suggest to make a backup before doing that. Also make sure to choose 'all eras' when setting up your battle.

@Gigantus: There is no "no_custom" entry in the EDU of this mod to my knowledge.
The "Miles" and "Miles pedites" units are both available in "custom battle" mode for the English and Sicilians but only in the early period ! (I just tested it with the latest August version)

[Goffredo85]

why mounted sergeant become unavailable so early? i'm playing as france and im at 1248 and they have disappeared from the pool of all settlement for quite some time now. not sure which historical event caused this. dont think that historically they disappeared by that date, but i might be wrong.

[eyelurker]

1248? That's pretty late me think. Meanwhile i'm waiting for the Mongol event.

[Jurand of Cracow]

why mounted sergeant become unavailable so early? i'm playing as france and im at 1248 and they have disappeared from the pool of all settlement for quite some time now. not sure which historical event caused this. dont think that historically they disappeared by that date, but i might be wrong.

shouldn't happen:

recruit_pool "Mounted Sergeants" 1 0.11 2 0 requires factions { england, france, jerusalem, hre, denmark, norway, poland, pisa, venice, sicily, papal_states, } and not event_counter HEAVY_MAIL_ARMOR 1
recruit_pool "Mounted Sergeants" 1 0.14 2 0 requires factions { england, france, jerusalem, hre, denmark, norway, poland, pisa, venice, sicily, papal_states, } and event_counter HEAVY_MAIL_ARMOR 1 and not event_counter MOUNTED_CROSSBOWS 1
recruit_pool "Mounted Sergeants" 1 0.11 2 0 requires factions { england, france, jerusalem, hre, denmark, norway, poland, pisa, venice, sicily, papal_states, } and event_counter HALF_PLATE_ARMOR 1

[Goffredo85]

well they disappeared for me, together with levy archers and archers. the latter disappeared even earlier.

[eyelurker]

My gameplay have passed 1200 and will almost reach 1210. Anything i should looking forward to gameplay wise aside from new units? Because i think i won and all i need is to finish the campaign objective.

[Sllhouette]

eyelurker, what faction, and what difficulty settings? i think if you've already won the game by 1200, you're playing too easy. there are some SSHIP features that only activate on harder settings, like army supplies/morale, and the king's coronation. you would be struggling to grow and fund your kingdom right now, rather than winning

[eyelurker]

eyelurker, what faction, and what difficulty settings? i think if you've already won the game by 1200, you're playing too easy. there are some SSHIP features that only activate on harder settings, like army supplies/morale, and the king's coronation. you would be struggling to grow and fund your kingdom right now, rather than winning

Abbasid. Very hard. Controlling from Egypt, Syria, Iraq and Iran. I'm not even that agressive, conquering each town around 5 turns with some longer gap where i focus on building my settlement and keeping my public order in check.

Now maybe because it's in Middle East where it's filled with large city so their income are very large compare to European but after i conquer Seljuk and especially once i conquer Hamadan and Mosul from Zengids i start to make more money than i need, allowing me to field expensive and powerful army. Abdal and Jaridah cavalry as well as Abna infantry are a game changer.

There is still crisis in my game, my bloodline stop marrying and producing kids. Roleplay wise i just make it an excuse for why Abbasid stop expanding for a while but aside from that i have dominate the campaign as Abbasid. I have shared my save file if you want to see how big and powerful i was before i conquer the whole Syria and Egypt.

[Sllhouette]

wow maybe you're just that good. maybe its also that there are massive rich towns in the middle east. im scotland right now and its horrible. my only native town was a peasant village, i had no money, and england has massive heavy infantry armies but my guys dont even wear much armor. took me over 200 turns and i still dont rule all of the british isles yet. i have the same bloodline problems. no rulers to rule my cities

[eyelurker]

wow maybe you're just that good. maybe its also that there are massive rich towns in the middle east. im scotland right now and its horrible. my only native town was a peasant village, i had no money, and england has massive heavy infantry armies but my guys dont even wear much armor. took me over 200 turns and i still dont rule all of the british isles yet. i have the same bloodline problems. no rulers to rule my cities

Oof Scotland. I haven't play them but since cavalry and archer play a big role in my victory while Scotland are infantry focus i know Scotland will have a hard time just to survive.

If i play as them i will take the money support, instant rush to England and burn all my money into army until i kick the England out but well i don't know if i can pulled that one off haha.

[Jurand of Cracow]

well they disappeared for me, together with levy archers and archers. the latter disappeared even earlier.

upload a save, pls

My gameplay have passed 1200 and will almost reach 1210. Anything i should looking forward to gameplay wise aside from new units? Because i think i won and all i need is to finish the campaign objective.

The Mongols are coming. Brace yourself. You may experience a civil war, if there's a dynasty crisis (admitedly, with the new "Next Heir" option this is much less likely, if at all). Maybe a crusade would be a challenge?

Abbasid. Very hard. Controlling from Egypt, Syria, Iraq and Iran. I'm not even that agressive, conquering each town around 5 turns with some longer gap where i focus on building my settlement and keeping my public order in check.
Now maybe because it's in Middle East where it's filled with large city so their income are very large compare to European but after i conquer Seljuk and especially once i conquer Hamadan and Mosul from Zengids i start to make more money than i need, allowing me to field expensive and powerful army. Abdal and Jaridah cavalry as well as Abna infantry are a game changer.
There is still crisis in my game, my bloodline stop marrying and producing kids. Roleplay wise i just make it an excuse for why Abbasid stop expanding for a while but aside from that i have dominate the campaign as Abbasid. I have shared my save file if you want to see how big and powerful i was before i conquer the whole Syria and Egypt.

Upload your current save :-)

I would consider 1 settlement per 5 turns to be very aggressive. Just have a look how other players made it in the their games.

yes, the settlements in the Middle East are very rich. as they historically were. should be balanced by civil wars, but the Next Heir was so demanded by the players, that it's in.

Oof Scotland. I haven't play them but since cavalry and archer play a big role in my victory while Scotland are infantry focus i know Scotland will have a hard time just to survive.
If i play as them i will take the money support, instant rush to England and burn all my money into army until i kick the England out but well i don't know if i can pulled that one off haha.

I think both Hungary and Poland provide quite a challenge while not being one-sided as Scotland or Norway are.

[Sllhouette]

Oof Scotland. I haven't play them but since cavalry and archer play a big role in my victory while Scotland are infantry focus i know Scotland will have a hard time just to survive.

If i play as them i will take the money support, instant rush to England and burn all my money into army until i kick the England out but well i don't know if i can pulled that one off haha.

on VH campaign, you can muster up maybe half a full army, meanwhile you kill one English army, 2 more will sprout from the ground, and they're all heavy infantry... you can try to buy up all the mercenaries (which i had to do many, many times just to live one more turn) and then go into debt, but SSHIP will make you lose your units the next turn... if you survive an attack, your army will be depleted and you won't even have the money to replenish any units even though your army upkeep dropped because almost all of them died...

i made do with galloglaich mercenaries, they cost almost 1k to recruit and about 1k to keep. that's huge money, especially when you only make 50 florins per turn. what choice did i have? i needed their killing power. i survived with mostly scottish light infantry, no armor. used javelin skirmishers to fight the english heavies. thank god that the capital is a castle, i let england keep crashing into my castle and breaking on my walls, but i could barely breathe because they wouldn't stop and so many times i almost lost the capital. i couldn't even buy farms, all my money was negative.

maybe try scotland for your next challenge. if you like difficulty i think it'll test you. if you're just as good at scotland as you are at abbasid, then i could learn from you. you're right, no good ranged, no cavalry, not even good melee (except very expensive elites that you can't afford), so you're forced to get creative. even 100 turns in, i felt like if i made 1 mistake it would undo all my work, every decision mattered, and thats why i love SSHIP so far