Where are my riders???

**Pretorian Stalker** · July 30, 2006, 03:31 PM

I`am playing as a Macedon TE Gold and I`ve found very annoying bug:
I tried (many times) to recruit Basilikoi Hippeis unit but it`s impossible!
If I pick for example, two phalangites and one Basilikoi Hippeis all units appears in building queue, money`s gone too but only Phalangites appears in city!

What the hell?!

I tried to build any other calvary unit and everything is ok.
... of course I can beat Seleucids and Ptolemeios and Greeks with phalanxes but...

BTW - welcome everyone! This is my first post!

**Lusted** · July 31, 2006, 11:11 AM

Erm, Basilikoi Hippeis is the generals unit, when you recruit them you will see a general appear in the settlement, not a unit. So you should probably have a few extra generals in the settlement, they have the basilikoi hippeis.

**Gaius Baltar** · July 31, 2006, 11:46 AM

Welcome! Generals can be very effective too.

**Pretorian Stalker** · July 31, 2006, 03:15 PM

:tooth: I knew it! Definitely I am stupid....
I was always wandering why people making all those "read me" files.

Thanks guys! Hehehehe!
I`m playing TE since saturday night, so I didn`t figure it out. Recruiting generals... Huh! You`re very clever!

I was so happy, because of those generals, playing Vanilla I have a lot of problems with only few family members!
Let me think what to do now... A legion with 20 generals?

Thanks again!

**Favre** · July 31, 2006, 05:28 PM

Well actually, Generals are veery powerful. I once held out with 1 Triarii, and 4 generals versus a 1500 man Spanish Army (No bull warriors) In a siege, It was quite fun

**Taelok** · July 31, 2006, 07:34 PM

Remember though, recruited generals do not count as family members, but can become so through Man of the Hour events just like a normal captain.

**Pretorian Stalker** · August 01, 2006, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by Taelok

Remember though, recruited generals do not count as family members, but can become so through Man of the Hour events just like a normal captain.

This is important, thanks!
Now I am fighting against Seleucids, Rome, Dacia, Epirus, Ptolemaios and Thracia simultaneously, so my generals are very busy. Many of them are now family members as you wrote.
Maybe I made an mistake and did not attacked Romans in early game. They are very powerfull now. We`re fighting over city at Illyrian coast (former Epirus one, but I forgot the name). After conquering the city, they recapturing it again, then I am dragging more troops and capture the city - at this moment I captured this city about 10 times!

A lot of Macedonians died there.
I am thinking over new tactic against Romans - they driving me crazy!
Maybe you have some to spare?
Usually, I am simply using 6 phalangites ( Hypaspistai Asthetairoi?), few Hippeis Thessaloi and bunch of Cretan Archers and Peltastai. Sometimes of course I am recruiting also mercenaries.
Tactic is not very sophisticated - phalanx in one line, archers behind them, peltasts in front (ready to run) and riders at wings.
Simple but effective.
But I am loosing too much men against those bloody Romans. :hmmm:

**Mongie** · August 02, 2006, 04:29 AM

Originally Posted by Pretorian Stalker

A lot of Macedonians died there.
I am thinking over new tactic against Romans - they driving me crazy!
Maybe you have some to spare?
Usually, I am simply using 6 phalangites ( Hypaspistai Asthetairoi?), few Hippeis Thessaloi and bunch of Cretan Archers and Peltastai. Sometimes of course I am recruiting also mercenaries.
Tactic is not very sophisticated - phalanx in one line, archers behind them, peltasts in front (ready to run) and riders at wings.
Simple but effective.
But I am loosing too much men against those bloody Romans. :hmmm:

that is one of the best tactics against the romans at that stage in the game.
My tactics are very simalir, but include mobile horse archers (if availible) to pepper unit and force to break contact with the others and drag them away from the main fight. Also I also wait for them to attack me they seem to break formation more often, dont know if a bug or not!!

**Pretorian Stalker** · August 02, 2006, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Mongie

that is one of the best tactics against the romans at that stage in the game.
My tactics are very simalir, but include mobile horse archers (if availible) to pepper unit and force to break contact with the others and drag them away from the main fight. Also I also wait for them to attack me they seem to break formation more often, dont know if a bug or not!!

Of course I am not trying to attack them with my phalanx. If I have a lot of archers (and they not) it`s obvious that it`s good to wait!
If they archers outnumbers mine, I am using calvary to stretch their lines and outmaneuver them.
BTW horse archers are very good, especially to **** enemy off! (I like those stars... cool thing! :tooth

I think that devil is in the details, probably I have to practice more and polish my tactical knowledge.

**Juus** · August 02, 2006, 01:37 PM

Against the Romans, use you missile cav to break their maniples. Then pick them off with your Archers. Basically just surround them, while disorganising them at the same time. Romans are quite straight forward to fight because their formation is quite compact and easy to focus on. What you need to do is lower their morale through skirmishes.

**Pretorian Stalker** · August 02, 2006, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Juus

Against the Romans, use you missile cav to break their maniples. Then pick them off with your Archers. Basically just surround them, while disorganising them at the same time. Romans are quite straight forward to fight because their formation is quite compact and easy to focus on. What you need to do is lower their morale through skirmishes.

Your advice looks very promising!
I`ve never use horse archers much, but maybe I should consider it.
Phalangites are very good but also very slow. It happens sometimes that Romans almost encircles my troops. I didn`t fight against post-Marius legions yet, but probably it will be even more challenging!
Could my Hippeis Thessaloi break Imperial Cohorts? Or I have to recruit Hetairoi? Sooner or later I will, but should I do it very quick?
In the matter of fact I am in the middle of building world-strongest economy...

And another thing - what is the purpose for using maniple formation (besides historical reasons)?

**Juus** · August 02, 2006, 03:59 PM

The Roman Manipular formation has almost no weaknesses. Very hard to break down, and can counter just about any scenario.

Im surprised you're allowing them to surround you, especially if you're using the Greek-Theban formation. Use missile cav and flank/skirmish/mess around with their heads etc. Roman troops are quite hardy, with high morale. You need to break them. You're missile cavalry are you're main offensive weapons - train them where you have a Nike temple, and added to the experience they'll surely get in the field, and you will have absolute killers.

Combined with Cretan Archers and you can own every battle against Rome before its even started.

Then when they're running our of steam, do the hammer and anvil tactic with your phalangites (swtich guard mode off at this point) and cav units.

**Pretorian Stalker** · August 02, 2006, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by Juus

The
Im surprised you're allowing them to surround you, especially if you're using the Greek-Theban formation.

It happend few times, while they suprised my army with almost no calvary. But of course I am not so weak to allow them to do this many times.

I fought against Romans playing Seleucids and I found good tactics against Manipular formation.

I called it "hit and run" - using heavy calvary I tried to hit "corners" of their formation and run soon after charge is done. They often broke formations to help attacked unit. Of course it is similar to your advice, because most important effect of this action will be in fact, distraction and sometimes overstreching of their forces. But I have to admit that using horse archers is more safe way to do this.

Personally, I think that Manipular formation is good because it looks chess-like. You can`t attack every unit in line simultaneously with your phalangites, because you`ll expose flanks of your units (each cohort can fight every direction, phalanx not). Moreover, second line cohort will do nasty things to your phalanx with their pillas!
But in this point of view, only two lines in formation are necessary. Maybe it will be good to put Velites in the middle? :hmmm:

**Juus** · August 02, 2006, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by Pretorian Stalker

I fought against Romans playing Seleucids and I found good tactics against Manipular formation.

I called it "hit and run" - using heavy calvary I tried to hit "corners" of their formation and run soon after charge is done. They often broke formations to help attacked unit. Of course it is similar to your advice, because most important effect of this action will be in fact, distraction and sometimes overstreching of their forces. But I have to admit that using horse archers is more safe way to do this.

Exactly, the effect is the same, regardless of how you apply the tactic. Again, you're right, better to use missile cav, and use them well.

Personally, I think that Manipular formation is good because it looks chess-like. You can`t attack every unit in line simultaneously with your phalangites, because you`ll expose flanks of your units (each cohort can fight every direction, phalanx not). Moreover, second line cohort will do nasty things to your phalanx with their pillas!
But in this point of view, only two lines in formation are necessary. Maybe it will be good to put Velites in the middle? :hmmm:

Agreed on that as well. The manipular's strength lies in its ability to be both compact and flexible.

Keep your missile units on the flanks to protect your phalanx once they engage. Plus they can more easily envelop the enemy when they approach your phalanx.

Basically I always aim to approach surround the Romans like this. My missile cav will always advance first, and try and get around the Manipular. Invariably the enemy General will either pursue them or attack my foot skirmishers and archers. With enemy General preoccupied, the enemy will lose morale, and I seize the chance and focus on breakin down the Roman block.

MC------- ROMANS-------MC
MC--------------------MC
M-M-M-PHALANX-M-M-M
C--------GENERAL-C

Of course it works best when you're playing defensive.

**Pretorian Stalker** · August 02, 2006, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by Juus

Keep your missile units on the flanks to protect your phalanx once they engage. Plus they can more easily envelop the enemy when they approach your phalanx.

Basically I always aim to approach surround the Romans like this. My missile cav will always advance first, and try and get around the Manipular. Invariably the enemy General will either pursue them or attack my foot skirmishers and archers. With enemy General preoccupied, the enemy will lose morale, and I seize the chance and focus on breakin down the Roman block.

It is good to keep few calvary units, especialy heavier ones to protect your horse calvary, I think!

Before I read your advice I used heavy calvary to protect flanks of my phalanx and always had two phalangites units behind first line, close to flanks - in case of flanking.
If Romans tries to flank my phalanx I put two backup units in front of flanking Roman units (usually 90 degrees angle to main line). Once they start to fight with my backups I hit them from behind with calvary and everything was finished with few seconds.

But I have to admit that Romans fight much better while they`re attacked from behind than any other units.

**Juus** · August 02, 2006, 05:56 PM

Thats the thing with the Romans, I guess. Tough to break down, but they don't present a serious tactical threat, like say, the Seleucids, Ptolemaios, or Carthage.