Pussy Riot

[removeduser_487563287433]

So I've been wanting to post a thread about this for a while, as I followed the trial, but I always assumed somebody would else would post it. Well, nobody has, unless I've missed it, and now the trial is almost over.

In Russia, Putin is cracking down even further on all dissent, and is using authority figures within the state as cynical allies. This was brought to international attention dramatically by Pussy Riot, a female punk band. On February 21st they went into Moscow Cathedral and performed an anti-Putin song, laced with obscenities. You can see a bit here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19047290

Three members were arrested. They were refused bail, remaining in jail during the entire process, without reason. Dubiously, they were put on trial for "hooliganism".

The Church, always eager to practice something other than it preaches, called for the utmost severity as a response.

Bizarrely, the trial was held with two huge dogs, a rottweiler and a German Shepherd, being used to intimidate the defendants.

In their final statement, the defence decried Putin's "totalitarianism" to applause from Russian journalists.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012...?newsfeed=true

Amnesty International, among other human rights groups, damned the proceedings, calling the women prisoners of conscience.

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=20047

Now, this is important, and bizarre stuff. It's also worrying that it took something so bombastic for Putin's crackdowns to finally resonate in the west. I know lots of people are immediately going to get very confused and damn these women on the grounds of them believing in different political viewpoints, or daring to perform a punk song in a Church, but this is very basic violation of freedom of speech.

[Tiberios]

I certainly does seem as if Putin is cracking down on dissent and political opponents. It's a worrying trend that seems to continue and slowly escalate. At the same times, it seems there are no real political parties or blocks able to defeat Putin's party at the moment. Now I admit that I do not have that great an insight into Russian politics, but as said, I does seem as if Putin continues his crackdowns for the lack of a better word.

It more or less seems to me that there are no real opposition to Putin, atleast not enough to seriously threaten his political power.



Oh, btw, in before accusations of anti-Russian bias are directed towards the OP.

[Hellenikon]

They lost any right of free speech the minute they violated someone else´s rights. In this case, the rights of the russian believers who were in that church. The state is obligated to protect the rights of religious groups, to preserve their sacred places undisturbed by other groups who don´t give a damn about anyone else´s rights but theirs.

The cause of these girls may even be called just, but their methods are not. They commited crimes agaisnt other russians, just to gain more attention from the media. It´s the same as if they made their little concert on a school yard, disturbing all the kids and teachers from their classes.

They should have rioted their pussies elsewhere, and learn to protest in a proper manner.

[Tiberios]

They lost any right of free speech the minute they violated someone else´s rights. In this case, the rights of the russian believers who were in that church. The state is obligated to protect the rights of religious groups, to preserve their sacred places undisturbed by other groups who don´t give a damn about anyone else´s rights but theirs.

The cause of these girls may even be called just, but their methods are not. They commited crimes agaisnt other russians, just to gain more attention from the media. It´s the same as if they made their little concert on a school yard, disturbing all the kids and teachers from their classes.

They should have rioted their pussies elsewhere, and learn to protest in a proper manner.

While I agree their little show was stupid, they have the right to protest. Just because it offends others, they shouldn't be facing a trial like this.

[removeduser_487563287433]

They lost any right of free speech the minute they violated someone else´s rights. In this case, the rights of the russian believers who were in that church.

What right is that?

[Menelik_I]

On February 21st they went into Moscow Cathedral and performed an anti-Putin song, laced with obscenities. You can see a bit here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19047290

They deserve to receive the maximum penalty permissible under Russian law.

but this is very basic violation of freedom of speech.

This is not a matter of freedom of speech, they forcible entered the cathedral with clear intentions of causing disturbance, engaged in acts of disturbances clearly offending the Church activities that were ongoing at the time and refused to leave when asked Church property. There are laws in various countries against disturbing locals of cult and insulting people of religion in said local, I don't know about Russia in specific.

Sure Putin might be annoyed that the music was bad against him, but just for what I mentioned above these ladies should stay in jail for some time or pay an heavy fine.

[removeduser_487563287433]

they forcible entered the cathedral

Source? I think you'll be forced to admit the Cathedral was open.

acts of disturbances clearly offending the Church

Not a crime. You pro-killing those Danish cartoonists suddenly, btw?

Crap. I should have left the "why do you not care about offending Islam but care about offending the Orthodox Church" bomb until later.

[Father Jack]

This is not a matter of freedom of speech, they forcible entered the cathedral

Having strolled into a number of Russian cathedrals during services, including the one they protested in, I was in no way inhibited. They are all open to the public so this is a lie.

[Menelik_I]

Source? I think you'll be forced to admit the Cathedral was open.

The Cathedral is open under conditions set by the Orthodox Church, they entered with premeditated intention of causing disturbance and refused to leave when asked to, counts as trespassing the second they resisted removal from the building.

Not a crime. You pro-killing those Danish cartoonists suddenly, btw?

It is a crime in some countries (Brazil for sure) to intentionally cause disturbance aimed at either insulting or preventing the orderly realization of religious activities in locals of cult.

Except that the these ladies where in a church, refused to leave the church when asked and were preventing the realization of church activities. Also they aren't being stoned to death, they are having a trial, even if it is Russian style.

The Orthodox Church, like any other religious aggregation in the world, has a right to private property on their locals of cult and have a right of being able to perform their cults without a wannabe contrarian making noise in it.

If it were a mosque, Sikh temple, or Japanese Shinto temple, the principle would be the same : You leave when asked to, you don't prevent their activities and you don't intentionally insult them.

Having strolled into a number of Russian cathedrals during services, including the one they protested in, I was in no way inhibited. They are all open to the public so this is a lie.

The video show them refusing to leave despite being asked by a Sister, so it is trespassing.

Lei do Ultraje a Culto.
CP - Decreto Lei nº 2.848 de 07 de Dezembro de 1940
Art. 208 - Escarnecer de alguém publicamente, por motivo de crença ou função religiosa; impedir ou perturbar cerimônia ou prática de culto religioso; vilipendiar publicamente ato ou objeto de culto religioso:
Pena - detenção, de um mês a um ano, ou multa.
Parágrafo único - Se há emprego de violência, a pena é aumentada de um terço, sem prejuízo da correspondente à violência


CP - Decree Law No. 2848 of December 7, 1940
Article 208 - publicly mock someone for reasons of belief or religious function, prevent or disrupt the ceremony or practice of religious worship, publicly vilifying act or object of worship:
Penalty - detention of one month to one year or a fine.
§ - If there is use of violence, the penalty is increased by one third, corresponding to the subject of violence.

http://www.jusbrasil.com.br/legislac...to-lei-2848-40

Or in short : Not being an .

Maybe Russia have some equivalent or similar law.

[removeduser_487563287433]

The Cathedral is open under conditions set by the Orthodox Church

Please source these conditions.

The video show them refusing to leave despite being asked by a Sister, so it is trespassing.

Then why are they not being convicted for trespass? Could it be because you're talking out your arse and that Cathedrals are public property? I think so!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Basil's_Cathedral

[Sphere]

The Orthodox Church, like any other religious aggregation in the world, has a right to private property on their locals of cult and have a right of being able to perform their cults without a wannabe contrarian making noise in it.

The Orthodox church is a renter. They have no private property rights over the grounds or the Cathedral. (Thank Lenin)

[nein]

women like this will not be tolerated when russia islamizes. The war of souls is going our way with each passing day, I think it is approaching 15% islam atm

[Father Jack]

Women like that are not tolerated in Putin's Russia at the moment...

[removeduser_487563287433]

women like this will not be tolerated when russia islamizes. The war of souls is going our way with each passing day, I think it is approaching 15% islam atm

They're evidently not tolerated now. It's 6% in Russia. Islam is the local religion in many Russian states, and has been for centuries.

[Menelik_I]

Please source these conditions.

Every single local of cult on earth have conditions for entry, we don't need to source the obvious.

Then why are they not being convicted for trespass? Could it be because you're talking out your arse and that Cathedrals are public property? I think so!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Basil's_Cathedral

17. The Diocese shall be entitled to use for its needs the plots of land, the buildings, including religious ones, the objects of the industrial, social, charitable, cultural, educational and other purposes, including those classified as the monuments of history and culture, as well as any other property which they need for ensuring their activity and which were made available for them by the state, municipal, public and other organizations and citizens in accordance with the legislation of the country where the Diocese is located or owns the property.

http://www.mospat.ru/en/documents/ustav/xv/

The building was put to the disposition of the Orthodox Church by the Russian state.

The Orthodox church is a renter. They have no private property rights over the grounds or the Cathedral. (Thank Lenin)

Renters have a right to ask people to leave the property they are renting.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Every single local of cult on earth have conditions for entry, we don't need to source the obvious.

Translation: I made it up and will pretend not to need to source it.

I'll talk to you when you want to actually talk.

[Emperor Arcturus Mengsk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S1Zf...eature=related

I have no idea if the translation it's correct but it's hillarious

[priam11]

Best thread title ever!

[Glista]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S1Zf...eature=related

I have no idea if the translation it's correct but it's hillarious

Yea, its correct

[Menelik_I]

Translation: I made it up and will pretend not to need to source it.

I'll talk to you when you want to actually talk.

Clothing in the Mosque

Clothing must be clean and of modest nature for both men and women visiting. These must not have pictures of living creatures.

Women must observe:

• Ankle length skirt or trousers which should be loose fitting and must not be tight or transparent.
• Long sleeved top which covers to the neck and the arms to the wrists that are loose fitting and not tight or transparent.
• A headscarf which will cover the hair completely.

Men must observe:

• Bottoms which are below the knees, preferably to the ankles.
• A top where the sleeves are no shorter than a typical T shirt.

General

Please speak softly. If prayers are in progress please remain quiet.
Switch off all mobile phones/pagers etc.
Keep small children with you and try to stand at the back.
Do not bring food/drink into the halls.
http://www.hounslowmasjid.co.uk/page...30/page30.html

All visitors to a Sikh Gurdwara should be aware of the following guidelines when visiting:
Please dress appropriately so that you can comfortably and with decency sit on the carpeted floor. It is recommended that all visitors to the Gurdwara wear loose fitting clothing which covers most of your legs. Low hanging or tight-fitting pants/trousers may not be suitable. Please try sitting on the carpeted floor at home for a short period to see if the clothing is suitable.
All visitors entering the Main Prayer Hall, called the Darbar Sahib and the Dining (Langar) Hall will have to remove their shoes and place them in the shoe racks provided.
Strictly No Smoking is allowed in the vicinity of the Gurdwara premises. Visitors cannot enter the Gurdwara while under the influence of Alcohol or Drugs. You should not take cigarettes or tobacco with you into the premises or smoke while near the Gurdwara or soon before going into the Gurdwara.
All visitors MUST cover their heads while in the main Gurdwara areas ie: (Darbar Sahib and Langar Hall)
http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Visiting_a_Gurdwara

Would the women be allowed to enter a muslim, Sihk, a Jehova witness temple or whatever and perform their music in the name of free speech ?