Pussy Riot

[removeduser_487563287433]

So I've been wanting to post a thread about this for a while, as I followed the trial, but I always assumed somebody would else would post it. Well, nobody has, unless I've missed it, and now the trial is almost over.

In Russia, Putin is cracking down even further on all dissent, and is using authority figures within the state as cynical allies. This was brought to international attention dramatically by Pussy Riot, a female punk band. On February 21st they went into Moscow Cathedral and performed an anti-Putin song, laced with obscenities. You can see a bit here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19047290

Three members were arrested. They were refused bail, remaining in jail during the entire process, without reason. Dubiously, they were put on trial for "hooliganism".

The Church, always eager to practice something other than it preaches, called for the utmost severity as a response.

Bizarrely, the trial was held with two huge dogs, a rottweiler and a German Shepherd, being used to intimidate the defendants.

In their final statement, the defence decried Putin's "totalitarianism" to applause from Russian journalists.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012...?newsfeed=true

Amnesty International, among other human rights groups, damned the proceedings, calling the women prisoners of conscience.

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=20047

Now, this is important, and bizarre stuff. It's also worrying that it took something so bombastic for Putin's crackdowns to finally resonate in the west. I know lots of people are immediately going to get very confused and damn these women on the grounds of them believing in different political viewpoints, or daring to perform a punk song in a Church, but this is very basic violation of freedom of speech.

[Tiberios]

I certainly does seem as if Putin is cracking down on dissent and political opponents. It's a worrying trend that seems to continue and slowly escalate. At the same times, it seems there are no real political parties or blocks able to defeat Putin's party at the moment. Now I admit that I do not have that great an insight into Russian politics, but as said, I does seem as if Putin continues his crackdowns for the lack of a better word.

It more or less seems to me that there are no real opposition to Putin, atleast not enough to seriously threaten his political power.



Oh, btw, in before accusations of anti-Russian bias are directed towards the OP.

[Hellenikon]

They lost any right of free speech the minute they violated someone else´s rights. In this case, the rights of the russian believers who were in that church. The state is obligated to protect the rights of religious groups, to preserve their sacred places undisturbed by other groups who don´t give a damn about anyone else´s rights but theirs.

The cause of these girls may even be called just, but their methods are not. They commited crimes agaisnt other russians, just to gain more attention from the media. It´s the same as if they made their little concert on a school yard, disturbing all the kids and teachers from their classes.

They should have rioted their pussies elsewhere, and learn to protest in a proper manner.

[Tiberios]

They lost any right of free speech the minute they violated someone else´s rights. In this case, the rights of the russian believers who were in that church. The state is obligated to protect the rights of religious groups, to preserve their sacred places undisturbed by other groups who don´t give a damn about anyone else´s rights but theirs.

The cause of these girls may even be called just, but their methods are not. They commited crimes agaisnt other russians, just to gain more attention from the media. It´s the same as if they made their little concert on a school yard, disturbing all the kids and teachers from their classes.

They should have rioted their pussies elsewhere, and learn to protest in a proper manner.

While I agree their little show was stupid, they have the right to protest. Just because it offends others, they shouldn't be facing a trial like this.

[Squiggle]

While I agree their little show was stupid, they have the right to protest. Just because it offends others, they shouldn't be facing a trial like this.

Church is private property, if they violated private property they sure as hell should be charged with tresspassing.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Church is private property

lol Jesus Christ

[justicar5]

Church is private property, if they violated private property they sure as hell should be charged with tresspassing.

Except it isn't. As has been shown repeatadly. Also why the double standard? YOu praise people who protests at mosques while condemming those who protest at far more vile churches.

[removeduser_487563287433]

They lost any right of free speech the minute they violated someone else´s rights. In this case, the rights of the russian believers who were in that church.

What right is that?

[justicar5]

They lost any right of free speech the minute they violated someone else´s rights. In this case, the rights of the russian believers who were in that church. The state is obligated to protect the rights of religious groups, to preserve their sacred places undisturbed by other groups who don´t give a damn about anyone else´s rights but theirs.

The cause of these girls may even be called just, but their methods are not. They commited crimes agaisnt other russians, just to gain more attention from the media. It´s the same as if they made their little concert on a school yard, disturbing all the kids and teachers from their classes.

They should have rioted their pussies elsewhere, and learn to protest in a proper manner.

The church is integral to the Putin state now, so it is a proper place of protest. Until the Orthodox Church buts out of politics it is a public political place and protest their is perfectly valid.

Nope, because launching their ''riot'' they should have consulted Russian law regarding disturbance of locals of cult and religious offenses. So engaging in the protest means that they were aware of the possible punishment and if they were not then they are idiots.

This case have nothing to do with freedom of speech.

So you support Sharia in states that practice it then? As it is 'the law' their? So you support the Holocaust because it was 'the law' in Nazi Occupied Territories? An unjust law is no law at all.

[Huberto]

It's the murder of journalists that should really deeply concern everyone.

[Alkaline Earth]

It's the murder of journalists that should really deeply concern everyone.

Off topic: Chris Chase needs to burn...

I am very concerned with this, it seems like the only way I can find the actual facts is through new media. Oh well...

I do not agree with these three Russian women but two years sounds a bit extreme.

[Hilarion]

I do not agree with these three Russian women

Watch out, or you'll be labelled a Stormfront fascist by some on this forum...

[Menelik_I]

On February 21st they went into Moscow Cathedral and performed an anti-Putin song, laced with obscenities. You can see a bit here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19047290

They deserve to receive the maximum penalty permissible under Russian law.

but this is very basic violation of freedom of speech.

This is not a matter of freedom of speech, they forcible entered the cathedral with clear intentions of causing disturbance, engaged in acts of disturbances clearly offending the Church activities that were ongoing at the time and refused to leave when asked Church property. There are laws in various countries against disturbing locals of cult and insulting people of religion in said local, I don't know about Russia in specific.

Sure Putin might be annoyed that the music was bad against him, but just for what I mentioned above these ladies should stay in jail for some time or pay an heavy fine.

[removeduser_487563287433]

they forcible entered the cathedral

Source? I think you'll be forced to admit the Cathedral was open.

acts of disturbances clearly offending the Church

Not a crime. You pro-killing those Danish cartoonists suddenly, btw?

Crap. I should have left the "why do you not care about offending Islam but care about offending the Orthodox Church" bomb until later.

[Menelik_I]

Source? I think you'll be forced to admit the Cathedral was open.

The Cathedral is open under conditions set by the Orthodox Church, they entered with premeditated intention of causing disturbance and refused to leave when asked to, counts as trespassing the second they resisted removal from the building.

Not a crime. You pro-killing those Danish cartoonists suddenly, btw?

It is a crime in some countries (Brazil for sure) to intentionally cause disturbance aimed at either insulting or preventing the orderly realization of religious activities in locals of cult.

Except that the these ladies where in a church, refused to leave the church when asked and were preventing the realization of church activities. Also they aren't being stoned to death, they are having a trial, even if it is Russian style.

The Orthodox Church, like any other religious aggregation in the world, has a right to private property on their locals of cult and have a right of being able to perform their cults without a wannabe contrarian making noise in it.

If it were a mosque, Sikh temple, or Japanese Shinto temple, the principle would be the same : You leave when asked to, you don't prevent their activities and you don't intentionally insult them.

Having strolled into a number of Russian cathedrals during services, including the one they protested in, I was in no way inhibited. They are all open to the public so this is a lie.

The video show them refusing to leave despite being asked by a Sister, so it is trespassing.

Lei do Ultraje a Culto.
CP - Decreto Lei nº 2.848 de 07 de Dezembro de 1940
Art. 208 - Escarnecer de alguém publicamente, por motivo de crença ou função religiosa; impedir ou perturbar cerimônia ou prática de culto religioso; vilipendiar publicamente ato ou objeto de culto religioso:
Pena - detenção, de um mês a um ano, ou multa.
Parágrafo único - Se há emprego de violência, a pena é aumentada de um terço, sem prejuízo da correspondente à violência


CP - Decree Law No. 2848 of December 7, 1940
Article 208 - publicly mock someone for reasons of belief or religious function, prevent or disrupt the ceremony or practice of religious worship, publicly vilifying act or object of worship:
Penalty - detention of one month to one year or a fine.
§ - If there is use of violence, the penalty is increased by one third, corresponding to the subject of violence.

http://www.jusbrasil.com.br/legislac...to-lei-2848-40

Or in short : Not being an .

Maybe Russia have some equivalent or similar law.

[removeduser_487563287433]

The Cathedral is open under conditions set by the Orthodox Church

Please source these conditions.

The video show them refusing to leave despite being asked by a Sister, so it is trespassing.

Then why are they not being convicted for trespass? Could it be because you're talking out your arse and that Cathedrals are public property? I think so!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Basil's_Cathedral

[nein]

women like this will not be tolerated when russia islamizes. The war of souls is going our way with each passing day, I think it is approaching 15% islam atm

[Menelik_I]

Please source these conditions.

Every single local of cult on earth have conditions for entry, we don't need to source the obvious.

Then why are they not being convicted for trespass? Could it be because you're talking out your arse and that Cathedrals are public property? I think so!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Basil's_Cathedral

17. The Diocese shall be entitled to use for its needs the plots of land, the buildings, including religious ones, the objects of the industrial, social, charitable, cultural, educational and other purposes, including those classified as the monuments of history and culture, as well as any other property which they need for ensuring their activity and which were made available for them by the state, municipal, public and other organizations and citizens in accordance with the legislation of the country where the Diocese is located or owns the property.

http://www.mospat.ru/en/documents/ustav/xv/

The building was put to the disposition of the Orthodox Church by the Russian state.

The Orthodox church is a renter. They have no private property rights over the grounds or the Cathedral. (Thank Lenin)

Renters have a right to ask people to leave the property they are renting.

[CarbEast]

The Cathedral is open under conditions set by the Orthodox Church, they entered with premeditated intention of causing disturbance and refused to leave when asked to, counts as trespassing the second they resisted removal from the building.

The maximum permissible punishment for that crime is 14 days of arrest. Unfortunately this is not what they're charged with. They're charged with "religious hatred", which is ridiculous. By the same token a guy causing disturbance at a Jew wedding can be charged for "ethnic hatred". You can argue that these girls aren't good members of society, or that they did wrong, and you will be right on both accounts. It still doesn't change the fact that the charges against them are only little more than simply made up.

So in this case we have a powerful religious organization insulted by some 20-somethings, an apathetic President, crazy Defense lawyers making this bigger than what it was supposed to be, and somewhere in the middle some misguided women who cant sing.

Yeah, blaming Putin is like a knee jerk reaction in the West. In reality we simply have an organized crime group also known as Russian Orthodox Church exacting revenge on misguided girls who dared to intrude on their turf without permission.

Unless Putin is absolute retard (which he isn't) he'd take a route of turning a blind eye on the whole situation if he could. Unluckily for him, it all got complicated very fast, and soon after he was faced with decision of either recalling the legal proceedings and thus alienating a large group of religious (and political) fanatics along with the Church, or keeping things as they are and be blamed by the West, along with lesser alienation from the liberally thinking part of the crowd. He chose the lesser evil for himself - to do nothing.

Two years for ing dancing and singing in a church, get the outta hir?

With the way Russian Orthodox Church is, I guess they were lucky not to get concrete shoes and dumped in a river.

[YuriVII]

Yeah, blaming Putin is like a knee jerk reaction in the West. In reality we simply have an organized crime group also known as Russian Orthodox Church exacting revenge on misguided girls who dared to intrude on their turf without permission.

Unless Putin is absolute retard (which he isn't) he'd take a route of turning a blind eye on the whole situation if he could. Unluckily for him, it all got complicated very fast, and soon after he was faced with decision of either recalling the legal proceedings and thus alienating a large group of religious (and political) fanatics along with the Church, or keeping things as they are and be blamed by the West, along with lesser alienation from the liberally thinking part of the crowd. He chose the lesser evil for himself - to do nothing.

Yeah Putin is gonna drop everything to do with Iran, Syria, North Caucuses, and Sochi to personally get involved in Pussy Riot fiasco. Makes complete sense.