Why muslims underachieve?

[TIGERCAT]

I found this site article on the Web; I wonder
if their is much truth in this.



2005/11/24 by Thierry Gattuso

Muslims make up 22% of the World’s population, according to the United Nations' Arab Human Development Report: "Half of Arab women cannot read; One in five Arabs live on less than $2 per day; Only 1 percent of the Arab population has a personal computer, and only half of 1 percent use the Internet; Fifteen percent of the Arab workforce is unemployed; 60% of Muslims are illiterate”. Only two Muslims have won the Nobel prize in a scientific field - Dr. Abdus Salam, in 1979 for Physics and Dr. Ahmed Zewail, in 1992 for Chemistry. Dr Salam a native of Pakistan , is not considered to be a Muslim in his home country as he follows the Ahmadiyyas sect of Islam.

Only 600 universities service a Muslim population of 1.2 billion in 57 countries. Half the universities concentrate on teaching Islamic education and science. India has 8,407 universities for 1 billion people and the United States has 5,758 for 280 million people. The combined annual GDP (purchasing power parity basis) of the 57 Muslim countries is under $2 trillion. The US produces goods and services worth $10.4 trillion; China $5.7 trillion, Japan $3.5 trillion, India $3 trillion and Germany $2.1 trillion. The oil rich states Saudi Arabia , United Arab Emirates , Kuwait and Qatar collectively produce goods and services worth $430 billion; Thailand alone produces goods and services worth $429 billion.

Underachievement by Muslims was not always the case claim Muslims and point to a glorious and illustrious time when the Arab Muslim empire was the most advanced and enlightened in the world. Many discoveries were made in the period 750 – 1250 AD according to Muslims. Critical analysis of this period shows that many of the advancements and discoveries we falsely attribute to Muslims were actually made by the ancient civilisations of the Mediterranean area, or by the ancient Chinese and Indian civilisations.

Muslims believe, that glass mirrors, were first developed by Muslim Spain in the 11th century. Around 1290 Venetians learned how to produce glass from the Spanish Muslims. The Romans invented the glass mirror around the 1st century. Research by Reinuad and Fave, indicates that Muslims chemists were the first to develop the formula for gunpowder and later produced firearms. The Chinese knew the formula for gunpowder and used it for military purposes during the Sung dynasty of the 12th century. Muslims boast that they laid the foundations for modern mathematics and two of its main branches, geometry and trigonometry. The Muslim contribution was merely to collect and combine the work done by the Egyptians, Greeks, Indians, Persians and Romans. The Indian civilisation gave us the concept of zero and modern numbers. Brahmagupta, an Indian mathematician, (598 – 665 AD) can be accredited with the initial work on algebra and negative numbers. The trigonometry terms sine and cosine have there origin in Sanskrit, the ancient language of India .

The underachievement and underperformance by Muslims is acute in the 57 Islamic countries. Muslims claim that they are recovering from a long period of colonisation and de colonisation and the effects of the removal of the Palestinian people from Arab lands. How about the achievements of Muslims who live and work in the West? Well the truth is not that much better than their cousins in Muslim countries.

The United Kingdom census of 2001 for the first time looked at the nation’s religious background. The findings showed that Muslims make up 2.8% of the UK population. Hindus 1%, Sikhs 0.6, Buddhists and Jews both make up 0.5% of the UK population. 31% of Muslims of working age have no qualifications, the highest of any religious group. As in many countries owing your own home is a major achievement and financial responsibility. 82% of Sikhs followed by 78% of Jews own their own home in the UK . Only 52% of Muslims own their own home, the lowest of any religious group. 14% of Muslims are unemployed, compared to 8% of Sikhs and 6% of Hindus. The underachievement of Muslims is even more bleak when you examine where most Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhist in the UK come from. 75% of Muslims, 97% of Hindus, 98 % of Sikhs and 69% of Buddhists in the UK are from or have ancestral links to South Asia . Therefore any cultural factors can be largely ruled out when comparing the achievement of Muslims with people from other religious groups. Muslims complain that they have to overcome language difficulties and face discrimination in the UK and state this as a factor in there poor performance. Buddhists, Hindus and Sikhs face the same language and discrimination issues as Muslims, yet their achievements and performance is much better than Muslims.



References

United Nations' Arab Human Development Report 2002

United Nations' Arab Human Development Report 2003

World Book Encyclopaedia

Encyclopaedia Britannica

Chronology of Science and Discovery Isaac Asimov's

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/focuson/religion/

[glorfindel87]

And yet somehow people still don't see this, argue about how peaceful Muslims are, and still claim all of those achievments as the Muslim's doing. You can't destroy the truth, but you can hide from it.

[Darth Wong]

Pure tripe. If Islam is more intrinsically hostile to progress than any other religion, then why did Christian Europe not start progressing forward until the Enlightenment era, when secularism began to rise?

Muslims need the same thing that Christians needed a half-millennium ago: a watering-down of their faith. Religion is like alcohol: if you must do it, do it in moderation. You will find that the most devout, fanatical Christian groups in the US are also the least educated. The problem is not the choice of religion; it is the fanaticism.

As for the true nature of the Koran, the Bible and Torah don't fare any better when subjected to serious academic scrutiny. All three of these documents are nothing more than the hallucinatory ramblings of ignorant savage primitives. In many cases they even admit as much, by describing how they went on long fasts before having their "visions"; modern medical science has already told us what happens when you deprive yourself of food and water and then wander around in the desert for days.

[TIGERCAT]

You will find that the most devout, fanatical Christian groups in the US are also the least educated. The problem is not the choice of religion; it is the fanaticism..

You shouldn't ridicule the American south, Idaho,
Montana, and Applachia with their snake cults, in that
manner. It might hurt their feelings. LOL (sarcasim)

Kanaric:
I guess only christians and rural whites can ever be
taken to task, all others are off limits?
I WASN'T even thinking about Blacks in Philadelphia,
by the way, remember 70% of Jews vote democrat and so do
the Irish unionists. Phila does have many whites their too.
I guess every small thing turns into racism, sexism etc.

p.s. I was thinking of a friend of mine (Irish -catholic) who
would vote for the devil if he was a democrat and he isn't
too informed on politics as well as his family. He still
thinks Ted Kennedy is a great moral man.

[MasterAdnin]

You can not say only Muslims underachieve. Not only Muslims live in that country, or area. There are others as well and they as well can not read or write, or just as much as all of the other people around them.

MasterAdnin

[Little Legionaire]

They left behind in every case. Economics, science, culture development more and more. I'm a Muslim and a Turkish my points are simply:

1- Educational: We couldn't develop "science" researching, processing and developing structures. Religional based dogmatic and outdated school system mutilated whole society. We failed to see power of positive sciences.

2- Global: We failed to think importance of geographic discoveries. We've isolated ourselves in our borders except new conquerings or wars. Limited touches with another part of world were only war, small diplomatic missions.

3- Society: We put our womens behind doors of houses and failed to include them social life. We cut half of body to death. Basic education and non qulification made them only housekeepers or babysitters.

4- Govermental: Sultan was shadow of god itself. So holly and untouchable. We couldn't develop a parlamental structure or break Monarchs solid power. The result was only a simple mass without any purpose or idea about future. "Sultan wills well" yeah but not so much longer. We couldn't create any Cromwell or Napoleon coz that demigod regime was a unpassable barrier for them.

I may continue forward...

[Denny Crane!]

They left behind in every case. Economics, science, culture development more and more. I'm a Muslim and a Turkish my points are simply:

1- Educational: We couldn't develop "science" researching, processing and developing structures. Religional based dogmatic and outdated school system mutilated whole society. We failed to see power of positive sciences.

2- Global: We failed to think importance of geographic discoveries. We've isolated ourselves in our borders except new conquerings or wars. Limited touches with another part of world were only war, small diplomatic missions.

3- Society: We put our womens behind doors of houses and failed to include them social life. We cut half of body to death. Basic education and non qulification made them only housekeepers or babysitters.

4- Govermental: Sultan was shadow of god itself. So holly and untouchable. We couldn't develop a parlamental structure or break Monarchs solid power. The result was only a simple mass without any purpose or idea about future. "Sultan wills well" yeah but not so much longer. We couldn't create any Cromwell or Napoleon coz that demigod regime was a unpassable barrier for them.

I may continue forward...

Right congratulatons on a good summary of some reasons why the countries have suffered, but in terms of the arguement at hand how are these countries any different to African christian/other religous countries or South American countries or non muslim asian and indonesian countries.

And if you look at the trend in Britain we are suffering a serious shortage of skilled academic and manually skilled workers which suggests something seriously wrong with the country, in fact maybe that is why everytime I make one of my frequent trips to hospital I always end up getting to see a (smoking hot) Indian doctor, because we don't have enough.

So lets change the topic to Why do secular/Christian/non specific religous/landlocked/oil rich/indonesian/South American/Disenfranchised youths of consumer driven materialistic societies /Hindu/Buddhist/Fijian/Chinese people underacheive?

Peter

[removeduser_426582376423734]

Liberals vs. extremists.

So, who is right? Most of the posts here are facts researched from one or the other of the peoples that I said above. You won't get a right or wrong answer, you'll just spit drivel at each other until one backs down. Personally, you cant be too harsh or too lenient on Muslims. They are a part of the world, and they deserve the same respect as any other people.

[RusskiSoldat]

Because muslims in their homelands had it easy.
Nice warm climate, plenty to eat, limitted war over the years.
Right now, A good 10% of my school are muslims (strangely enough all Bengalis) with a negligible muslim population in NYC

[Masquerade]

To suggest that belonging to a certain religion is the cause of 'underachievement' is clearly rubbish.

[wilpuri]

I do believe, that some cultures do create a more fertile soil for innovation, progress etc. But that's me.

[Masquerade]

But culture is not the same as religion at all.

[Scar Face]

But culture is not the same as religion at all.

Acctually it is. Very much so up until modern times where people take religion alot less seriously. 150 years ago (victorian age) people wouldn't do **** without the preist's approval of there religion. If they said science or overthrowing a bad dictator was bad 98% of the time they would agree and stick with it. So ya culture is largely defined by Relgion and how the important relgious figures interprete(sp?) there religion.

[Masquerade]

Acctually it is. Very much so up until modern times where people take religion alot less seriously. 150 years ago (victorian age) people wouldn't do **** without the preist's approval of there religion. If they said science or overthrowing a bad dictator was bad 98% of the time they would agree and stick with it. So ya culture is largely defined by Relgion and how the important relgious figures interprete(sp?) there religion.

That is so blatently wrong. Examples pop into my head immediately to the contrary. Ancient Greek and Roman philosophers debating if the ancient pantheon existed, constantly challenging accepted views of the world. Dramatic shifts in state religion such as the conversion of Constantine or the abandoning of Catholicism by the English in favour of Protestantism. Galileo Galilei confronting the inquisition.

Even if you were right (and you are not) 150 years is a **** load of time. Religion does not equal culture.

[TIGERCAT]

Ooooooh, not sure if theres any truth behind that, but thats a harsh one there. Ooooooh.

I only read 4/5 of the article, (I was on lunch break)
it was harsh; so I took it out. I just had another thought;
did anyone ever take notice when a culture advances
to a somewhat high degree morality sinks. It seems the
most advanced cultures have alot of depravity while
you don't see it in poor/rural agragarian socities. So when
income goes up, morality/mores sink and vica versa.
This seems true to me; but I could be wrong.
An example of this could be Hollywood/L.A.

[Trey]

That is so blatently wrong. Examples pop into my head immediately to the contrary. Ancient Greek and Roman philosophers debating if the ancient pantheon existed, constantly challenging accepted views of the world. Dramatic shifts in state religion such as the conversion of Constantine or the abandoning of Catholicism by the English in favour of Protestantism. Galileo Galilei confronting the inquisition.

Even if you were right (and you are not) 150 years is a **** load of time. Religion does not equal culture.

yes, it is one of the major parts of a culture though.

[Masquerade]

yes, it is one of the major parts of a culture though.

It can be a significant part. It does not however account for history, language, music, literature, philosophy, science, art, craftwork, regional variations, etc. etc. etc. Like saying that Americans are exactly the same as Nigerians because they are Christian. Like saying that Morocans are the same as Thai muslims. Obviously wrong.

[Darth Wong]

I only read 4/5 of the article, (I was on lunch break)
it was harsh; so I took it out. I just had another thought;
did anyone ever take notice when a culture advances
to a somewhat high degree morality sinks. It seems the
most advanced cultures have alot of depravity while
you don't see it in poor/rural agragarian socities. So when
income goes up, morality/mores sink and vica versa.
This seems true to me; but I could be wrong.
An example of this could be Hollywood/L.A.

Only if you're one of those people who think that morality is all about sex. Real morality has to do with helping people, sympathy for your fellow man, etc., not a childish fascination with other peoples' sex lives. And such generosity is far more prevalent in the wealthier, more advanced societies.

[Sam]

I might buy into the 'muslim underachievement' story if not for the numerous 'muslim' (if that implies middle eastern) professors and teaching staff at my university, particularly in the Engineering faculty. A large 'muslim' student community also exists there.

As DW said, in terms of education, religious fanatacism will drag far, far more people down than inability will.

[Valentin the II]

Well I dont know if the muslims underachieve becaws of their religion but they cetainly do.
I live in Israel (in Ashkelon actualy) and its realy stuning when you compare the Israely cities to the arab ones. I mean while our cities are clean (mostly), green (we have tons of plants planted around our buildings) and well built the Arab cities look like enormous dumps serounded by a baren wastland. With 100's of litttle clastrophobic alies, trash evrywhere, evrysing is out of order and the cities are just devided into two parts: a few enormous vilas for the rich and all thats left to the pour.
And dont sink that I am overriacting becaws "they are my enemies" or somthing.
I dont mind them living near us, its just that Im desturbed to see them live in thise horid conditions and doing nosing to improve them.
In all my life I'v never seen a muslim that has been able to integrate (is that the right word?) well
in Israely society, while other non-jewish people manage just fine.
It almost seems that they dont care about their poor conditions. And thats just wierd !

-Valik
PS: I repiet that Im not racist any way and I respect evry culture as it is. :sweatingb