The Caucuses Region and the EU

[Armenum]

Both Armenia and Georgia have intensified their relationships with the EU and hope in the future to apply for membership. Both countries may be geographically on the outskirts of Europe but are still culturally considered Europe. Maybe if Turkey-Armenia peace process is achieved and Karabakh problem is solved peacefully; there will be more even greater cooperation and integration with EU. Both countries however still need to make notable democratic reforms and cut down on corruption. The population of Armenia and Georgia want to move towards EU. Discuss.

http://ec.europa.eu/external_relatio...a/index_en.htm

http://ec.europa.eu/external_relatio...a/index_en.htm

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[il padrino]

I think that the Balkans will enter the EU before the Caucuses region,and Balkans will do it about 2015.So you have a looooong road in front of you,that is,if you want to enter the EU,or if the EU will even exist at that time.

[Aru]

Very, very long road. They won't get in before Turkey, that's for sure. Otherwise they'd be too isolated. Plus they both have domestic problems that need to be solved first.

And we are yet to see how and when Balkan countries get in. Even Croatia is not yet certain entry, with Slovenian territorial demands and all. Bosnia's not going in before Dayton 2, Serbia before dealing with Kosovo one way o the other, Macedonia before settling the name dispute. Montenegro and Albania are the only countries that don't have some huge problem that can postpone the entry indefenetly and depend only upon them selves. For now.

[Syron]

No thanks.

[il padrino]

Very, very long road. They won't get in before Turkey, that's for sure. Otherwise they'd be too isolated. Plus they both have domestic problems that need to be solved first.

And we are yet to see how and when Balkan countries get in. Even Croatia is not yet certain entry, with Slovenian territorial demands and all. Bosnia's not going in before Dayton 2, Serbia before dealing with Kosovo one way o the other, Macedonia before settling the name dispute. Montenegro and Albania are the only countries that don't have some huge problem that can postpone the entry indefenetly and depend only upon them selves. For now.

Well as far as i'm concerned,we don't need to enter the EU(we=Serbia) but in any case,nobody knows for sure what will happen on that road to the EU.It's all political games.I mean,Romania and Bulgaria entered the EU before other Balkan states,on what grounds ?Croatia has 100x stronger economy than Bulgaria and Romania,even Serbia has it.It's obvious that they were pushed there by some other "means".The same could happen in the Caucasus,if the EU wants to contest the Russian influence...

[Armenum]

I envision some sort of Caucuses Union (given the peace process in all countries is good) that will be a close partner to EU, maybe similar to Mediterranean Union. Also, there may be less opposition from EU member states (in contrast to the opposition about Turkey) when talking about Georgia and Armenia because both have strong cultural, historical, and religious links with Europe.

[6th Vigil]

If Goergia and Armenia can join then I cannot see why Turkey is not.

[Armenum]

If Goergia and Armenia can join then I cannot see why Turkey is not.

Culturally, Georgia and Armenia are closer to Europe culturally; also both are ancient Christian nations whose people have European roots.

[Seleucos of Olympia]

Geographically, both Georgia and Armenia are wholly in Europe. Turkey isn't, apart from a small bit. That said, those two countries are a long way away from the rest of Europe, and between them and us there's a Russia that considers them within its sphere of influence... It's tricky.

[6th Vigil]

Culturally, Georgia and Armenia are closer to Europe culturally; also both are ancient Christian nations whose people have European roots.

Well in that case shall i expect Australia, Canada, the US and New Zealand join shortly?

[Armenum]

Well in that case shall i expect Australia, Canada, the US and New Zealand join shortly?

But Australia, Canda, and US are not even close to Europe nor politicaly considered to be part of Europe. Armenia and Georgia are part of Council of Europe and Eastern Partnership all EU organizations for European countries.

[Dr. Oza]

turkeys not even in yet.. but hel no...

u only say thr european because thr christian.. by that logic the naiman turks of central asia should join as well...

and why no mention of azerbaijan?

you have a right but they dont?

[Manco]

Geographically, both Georgia and Armenia are wholly in Europe. Turkey isn't, apart from a small bit. That said, those two countries are a long way away from the rest of Europe, and between them and us there's a Russia that considers them within its sphere of influence... It's tricky.

The division Europe/Asia is pretty arbitrary. just look at a map and Turkey is closer in every single way to most European countries than the Caucasus countries.

[Dr. Oza]

but of course selseucos would rather have his christian brothers in armenia be in the EU rather than us barbarian turks... who cares for maps! or history!

[Romano-Dacis]

Don't hold your breath.

[Mr. Scott]

turkeys not even in yet.. but hel no...

u only say thr european because thr christian.. by that logic the naiman turks of central asia should join as well...

and why no mention of azerbaijan?

you have a right but they dont?

actually don't the caucas's border southeastern europe? Europe isn't just composed of the central and western nations. The caucaus's border the european Russia.... so it actually could be considered part of Europe to an extent.

[Aru]

actually don't the caucas's border southeastern europe? Europe isn't just composed of the central and western nations. The caucaus's border the european Russia.... so it actually could be considered part of Europe to an extent.

Istanbul is easternmost point in official Southeastern Europe. Westernmost point of Georgia is exactly 1000 km east of it.

Of course, if you look at the map the Caucasus is southeastern Europe and Balkan is south-central Europe, but no one cares for geography.

[John I Tzimisces]

as has been said before, not before turkey and X number of balkan states get in. We love to think we're Europeans by virtue of a few random episodes but traditionally our culture, believe it or not, has been in the Turkish and Persian Sphere for the last thousand years despite what many Armenians and Georgians desperately seem to think (add another 2000 years for the Persian sphere), with only a brief interlude during the Crusades, in which the Armenian nobility suddenly thought it would be cool to convert to Catholicism.

But obviously Armenia and Georgia have the "benefit" of being former soviet states which, if anything is a greater degree of association with Europe than any actual period in our history (sans crusades).

[Armenum]

as has been said before, not before turkey and X number of balkan states get in. We love to think we're Europeans by virtue of a few random episodes but traditionally our culture, believe it or not, has been in the Turkish and Persian Sphere for the last thousand years despite what many Armenians and Georgians desperately seem to think (add another 2000 years for the Persian sphere), with only a brief interlude during the Crusades, in which the Armenian nobility suddenly thought it would be cool to convert to Catholicism.

But obviously Armenia and Georgia have the "benefit" of being former soviet states which, if anything is a greater degree of association with Europe than any actual period in our history (sans crusades).

No doubt that Georgia and Armenia have had influence from Persia, Ottomans, etc. Remember though Europe has also had significant influence from Middle east and the asia. Remember, that both Armenia and Georgia have never embraced Persian, Ottoman, or any Muslim rule. They have always fought against these big empires to gain independence, and have never really assimilated into foreign empires (one reason being the church). Armenians have also been under Roman Empire, and have live with/under numerous under empires with Georgia.

Because of this actually, many Armenian and Georgians intermarried especially when under Muslim rule, which contributed to the fact that Armenians and Georgians kept their identity.

In terms of looks, Armenians and Georgians look Mediterranean (Greek, south italy, etc.) and it is easy for the most part to distinguish them from middle-eastern people who tend to have a darker complexion.

[Dr. Oza]

No doubt that Georgia and Armenia have had influence from Persia, Ottomans, etc. Remember though Europe has also had significant influence from Middle east and the asia. Remember, that both Armenia and Georgia have never embraced Persian, Ottoman, or any Muslim rule. They have always fought against these big empires to gain independence, and have never really assimilated into foreign empires (one reason being the church). Armenians have also been under Roman Empire, and have live with/under numerous under empires with Georgia.

Because of this actually, many Armenian and Georgians intermarried especially when under Muslim rule, which contributed to the fact that Armenians and Georgians kept their identity.

In terms of looks, Armenians and Georgians look Mediterranean (Greek, south italy, etc.) and it is easy for the most part to distinguish them from middle-eastern people who tend to have a darker complexion.

moroccans have a better claim than armenia does...

looks matter little i think...