The Caucuses Region and the EU

[Armenum]

Both Armenia and Georgia have intensified their relationships with the EU and hope in the future to apply for membership. Both countries may be geographically on the outskirts of Europe but are still culturally considered Europe. Maybe if Turkey-Armenia peace process is achieved and Karabakh problem is solved peacefully; there will be more even greater cooperation and integration with EU. Both countries however still need to make notable democratic reforms and cut down on corruption. The population of Armenia and Georgia want to move towards EU. Discuss.

http://ec.europa.eu/external_relatio...a/index_en.htm

http://ec.europa.eu/external_relatio...a/index_en.htm

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[il padrino]

I think that the Balkans will enter the EU before the Caucuses region,and Balkans will do it about 2015.So you have a looooong road in front of you,that is,if you want to enter the EU,or if the EU will even exist at that time.

[Aru]

Very, very long road. They won't get in before Turkey, that's for sure. Otherwise they'd be too isolated. Plus they both have domestic problems that need to be solved first.

And we are yet to see how and when Balkan countries get in. Even Croatia is not yet certain entry, with Slovenian territorial demands and all. Bosnia's not going in before Dayton 2, Serbia before dealing with Kosovo one way o the other, Macedonia before settling the name dispute. Montenegro and Albania are the only countries that don't have some huge problem that can postpone the entry indefenetly and depend only upon them selves. For now.

[il padrino]

Very, very long road. They won't get in before Turkey, that's for sure. Otherwise they'd be too isolated. Plus they both have domestic problems that need to be solved first.

And we are yet to see how and when Balkan countries get in. Even Croatia is not yet certain entry, with Slovenian territorial demands and all. Bosnia's not going in before Dayton 2, Serbia before dealing with Kosovo one way o the other, Macedonia before settling the name dispute. Montenegro and Albania are the only countries that don't have some huge problem that can postpone the entry indefenetly and depend only upon them selves. For now.

Well as far as i'm concerned,we don't need to enter the EU(we=Serbia) but in any case,nobody knows for sure what will happen on that road to the EU.It's all political games.I mean,Romania and Bulgaria entered the EU before other Balkan states,on what grounds ?Croatia has 100x stronger economy than Bulgaria and Romania,even Serbia has it.It's obvious that they were pushed there by some other "means".The same could happen in the Caucasus,if the EU wants to contest the Russian influence...

[ShockBlast]

Croatia has 100x stronger economy than Bulgaria and Romania,even Serbia has it.It's obvious that they were pushed there by some other "means".The same could happen in the Caucasus,if the EU wants to contest the Russian influence...

Are you sure about that?
Romania

GDP (PPP) 2008 estimate - Total $270.772 billion[2] - Per capita $12,600[2] GDP (nominal) 2008 estimate - Total $200.074 billion[2] - Per capita $9,310[2]

Bulgaria

GDP (PPP) 2008 estimate - Total $93.728 billion[4] (63rd) - Per capita $12,322[4] (65th) GDP (nominal) 2008 estimate - Total $49.904 billion[4] (75th) - Per capita $6,560[4] (69th)

Serbia

GDP (PPP) 2008 estimate - Total $79.798 billion[2] - Per capita $10,810[2] (excluding Kosovo) GDP (nominal) 2008 estimate - Total $50.061 billion[2] - Per capita $6,782[2] (excluding Kosovo)

PPP is for standard of life and nominal is for comparing the economies of the countries.The information if from wiki.
We are still on top.

[il padrino]

Are you sure about that?
Romania
Bulgaria
Serbia
PPP is for standard of life and nominal is for comparing the economies of the countries.The information if from wiki.
We are still on top.

Oh im sorry if i wasn't clear,I wanted to say that before Romania and Bulgaria entered the EU,they were more or less in the same economical situation as Serbia,or even worse.And even now,the difference is not so big.

I don't want to argue which country has better economics,i just want to say that if the EU wants you in,they'll let you even if you don't have all the reforms and stuff.And if they don't want you,you can have the grounds for entering,but they will invent new things to fulfill.

[ShockBlast]

Oh im sorry if i wasn't clear,I wanted to say that before Romania and Bulgaria entered the EU,they were more or less in the same economical situation as Serbia,or even worse.And even now,the difference is not so big.

I don't want to argue which country has better economics,i just want to say that if the EU wants you in,they'll let you even if you don't have all the reforms and stuff.And if they don't want you,you can have the grounds for entering,but they will invent new things to fulfill.

Yes i know we weren't ready and not even know we aren't ready.You guys should enter when you are ready there is no point in rushing the things believe me it's much better.
The war dragged you down but you guys are still kicking.

Have a nice day my Serbian friend.

[Syron]

No thanks.

[Armenum]

I envision some sort of Caucuses Union (given the peace process in all countries is good) that will be a close partner to EU, maybe similar to Mediterranean Union. Also, there may be less opposition from EU member states (in contrast to the opposition about Turkey) when talking about Georgia and Armenia because both have strong cultural, historical, and religious links with Europe.

[6th Vigil]

If Goergia and Armenia can join then I cannot see why Turkey is not.

[Armenum]

If Goergia and Armenia can join then I cannot see why Turkey is not.

Culturally, Georgia and Armenia are closer to Europe culturally; also both are ancient Christian nations whose people have European roots.

[6th Vigil]

Culturally, Georgia and Armenia are closer to Europe culturally; also both are ancient Christian nations whose people have European roots.

Well in that case shall i expect Australia, Canada, the US and New Zealand join shortly?

[Armenum]

Well in that case shall i expect Australia, Canada, the US and New Zealand join shortly?

But Australia, Canda, and US are not even close to Europe nor politicaly considered to be part of Europe. Armenia and Georgia are part of Council of Europe and Eastern Partnership all EU organizations for European countries.

[Seleucos of Olympia]

Geographically, both Georgia and Armenia are wholly in Europe. Turkey isn't, apart from a small bit. That said, those two countries are a long way away from the rest of Europe, and between them and us there's a Russia that considers them within its sphere of influence... It's tricky.

[Manco]

Geographically, both Georgia and Armenia are wholly in Europe. Turkey isn't, apart from a small bit. That said, those two countries are a long way away from the rest of Europe, and between them and us there's a Russia that considers them within its sphere of influence... It's tricky.

The division Europe/Asia is pretty arbitrary. just look at a map and Turkey is closer in every single way to most European countries than the Caucasus countries.

[ivan_the_terrible]

Geographically, both Georgia and Armenia are wholly in Europe.

By which definition? How is it that a country that is directly east of Asia Minor is geographically in Europe?

You can make a case for Georgia, though it's still iffy, depending on which definition of Europe you use.

For example, the Russian Geographical Society (in its various forms) has considered the Kuma-Manych depression the south-eastern border of Europe since the 19th Century, because it separates the European steppe from the fore-Caucasus.

Even if we take the northern-most ridge of the Caucasus as the border, that includes a fringe of Georgia and tiny bit of Azerbaijan in Europe, and not Armenia.

[Armenum]

By which definition? How is it that a country that is directly east of Asia Minor is geographically in Europe?

You can make a case for Georgia, though it's still iffy, depending on which definition of Europe you use.

For example, the Russian Geographical Society (in its various forms) has considered the Kuma-Manych depression the south-eastern border of Europe since the 19th Century, because it separates the European steppe from the fore-Caucasus.

Even if we take the northern-most ridge of the Caucasus as the border, that includes a fringe of Georgia and tiny bit of Azerbaijan in Europe, and not Armenia.

That may be true but for cultural reasons Georgia and Armenia are considered Europe for same reason Cyprus is. And it's not like Armenia is in central asia or anything; it is right at the border.

[ivan_the_terrible]

That may be true but for cultural reasons Georgia and Armenia are considered Europe for same reason Cyprus is. And it's not like Armenia is in central asia or anything; it is right at the border.

Cultural is different. The poster I replied to claimed Armenia is geographically in Europe, while Anatolia is not.

But culturally wouldn't it be closer to Russia than Europe?

Not really. Armenia was already a country when Russia, and quite a lot of the rest of Europe, were still climbing trees

[Atabeg]

Even if we take the northern-most ridge of the Caucasus as the border, that includes a fringe of Georgia and tiny bit of Azerbaijan in Europe, and not Armenia.

Well, according to the OP, Azerbaijan are not even in Caucasus.

[karo]

Well, according to the OP, Azerbaijan are not even in Caucasus.

Let's look at teh situation of Azerbajian. The country is a dictatorship, has real bad human rights record and there is no real opposition. And don't get me started about freedom of speech so Azeris have the least chance to join the EU.

Armenian Government is going towards direction of EU no doubt. Joining the EU would give us peace, stability and prosperity. And maybe it would take our independence away slightly but in return we would get much more. Remember EU is a union of nations, it's definitely very far away from a union like USSR.

The EU is changing into a federation and a president will be chosen very soon. And the countries will start losing their independence. Armenia has fought hard to get were it is now, and joining the EU will not be the best thing it can do. The best thing is to be a partner of the EU but never join it. Because if we join the lord and master in the region and our only ally will be pist off. And you don't want to get the bear angry in it's own back yard.