EB-Twitter updates Discussion

[Ivir Baggins]

New unit on the feeds!

Those Khaldiai (spelling?) are mint. Wanting to do a Hai campaign with the next version and can't wait.

[alex33]

Awesome!!! What is the source for those Pikemen btw? Never heard anything about Armenia using phalanx

[QuintusSertorius]

Awesome!!! What is the source for those Pikemen btw? Never heard anything about Armenia using phalanx

Courtesy of Sarkiss, who concepted the unit:

Aeschylus, Prometheus Bound.

On the left hand dwell the workers in iron, [715] the Chalybes, and you must beware of them, since they are savage and are not to be approached by strangers.

Euripides, Alcestis.

Even the iron of the Chalybes1 you overcome with your violence, and there is no pity in your unrelenting heart.

1. A people living on the Black Sea, said to have invented the working of iron.

Herodotus, The Histories.

As time went on, Croesus subjugated almost all the nations west of the Halys; for except the Cilicians and Lycians, all the rest Croesus held subject under him. These were the Lydians, Phrygians, Mysians, Mariandynians, Chalybes, Paphlagonians, the Thracian Thynians and Bithynians, Carians, Ionians, Dorians, Aeolians, and Pamphylians

Xenophon, Anabasis, Book 4

From there they marched through the land of the Chalybians seven stages, fifty parasangs. These were the most valiant of all the peoples they passed through, and would come to hand-to-hand encounter. They had corselets of linen reaching down to the groin, with a thick fringe of plaited cords instead of flaps. [Xen. Anab. 4.7.15]

[16] They had greaves also and helmets, and at the girdle a knife about as long as a Laconian dagger, with which they would slaughter whomever they might be able to vanquish; then they would cut off their heads and carry them along on their march, and they would sing and dance whenever they were likely to be seen by the enemy. They carried also a spear about five cubits long, with a point at only one end.1 [Xen. Anab. 4.7.16]

1 Xenophon doubtless remarks this fact because the Greek spear had a sharp point at the butt, to stick in the ground.


Xenophon, Anabasis, Book 5.

Through this country, both the hostile and the friendly portions of it, the Greeks marched eight stages, reaching then the land of the Chalybians.1 These people were few in number and subject to the Mossynoecians, and most of them gained their livelihood from working in iron. [Xen. Anab. 5.5.1]

1 Apparently an outlying tribe of the people whose territory the Greeks had previously passed through. cp. Xen. Anab. 4.7.15 ff.


Strabo, Geography, CHAPTER XIV.

According to historians, Armenia, which was formerly a small country, was enlarged by Artaxias and Zariadris, who had been generals of Antiochus the Great, and at last, after his overthrow, when they became kings, (the former of Sophene, Acisene, (Amphissene?) Odomantis, and some other places, the latter of the country about Artaxata,) they simultaneously aggrandized themselves, by taking away portions of the territory of the surrounding nations: from the Medes they took the Caspiana, Phaunitis, and Basoropeda; from the Iberians, the country at the foot of the Paryadres, the Chorzene, and Gogarene, which is on the other side of the Cyrus; from the Chalybes, and the Mosynœci, Carenitis and Xerxene, which border upon the Lesser Armenia, or are even parts of it; from the Cataones, Acilisene,and the country about the Anti-Taurus; from the Syrians, Taronitis;7 hence they all speak the same language.

Appian, Mithridatic Wars, CHAPTER X.

Besides his [Mithridates VI Eupator’s] former forces he had for allies the Chalybes, Armenians, Scythians, Taurians, Achæans, Heniochi, Leucosyrians, and those who occupy the territory about the river Thermodon, called the country of the Amazons. These additions to his former strength were from Asia.

A reconstruction of the Chalybe pikemen from Achaemenid Persian Army:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

and their description:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Mentioning of their spears:
William Smith, LLD, William Wayte, G. E. Marindin, Eds. A Dictionary of Greek and Roman Antiquities (1890)

The Homeric spears are of enormous length. Hector carries one 11 cubits long (Il. 6.319), and when fighting from the ship's deck Ajax wields one of double the length, 22 cubits (Il. 15.678). Rüstow and Köchly consider these “purely heroic” (cf. the falarica hurled by Turnus, Verg. A. 9.705); but Xenophon (Xen. Anab. 4.7.16) positively tells us that the Chalybes used spears of the portentous length of 15 cubits, and we can only suspend our judgment as to the spears of Homer's time (Leaf, p. 300). The point is commonly supposed to have been attached to the shaft by a hollow socket or ferule (αὐλός, Il. 17.297, with Leaf's note; αἰγανέας δολιχαύλους, i.e. venabula, Od. 9.156); but the lance of Hector has the head fastened on by a golden πόρκης, i. e. κρίκος or ring (Il. 6.320, 15.495).

[Tactics Mayers]

The new units look really good. Not to mention that Punic Town looks to give Carthaginian settlements unique look.

1. These Armenian Phalanx are stronger than the Pantodapoi Phalangitai but weaker than the Hellenic Phalanx right?

2. The Alan Horse Archers weak to melee HAs or are they similar to the to the Aorsi HAs?

[QuintusSertorius]

The Chaldians are better than levy phalanxes, roughly equivalent to Phalangitai (though shieldless). Note they're a regional unit, not a Hai factional one.

The Alans are professionals, so similar to the Aursans in melee (and better than the basic Sauromatian Rider).

[Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ]

New units, new town models... You guys never disappoint!

[alex33]

Can I dl the pics upload them to imgur and make a post on TW reddit? I think EB2 deserves well more PR then it already has

[QuintusSertorius]

Can I dl the pics upload them to imgur and make a post on TW reddit? I think EB2 deserves well more PR then it already has

By all means.

[Pooploop]

I applaud the inclusion of these Chaldians, but what of the performance of phalanxes in general? Will hoplites and legionnaires still be able to break through the pikes in their first charge and end up behind the formation? I pray for any solid improvement...

[QuintusSertorius]

I applaud the inclusion of these Chaldians, but what of the performance of phalanxes in general? Will hoplites and legionnaires still be able to break through the pikes in their first charge and end up behind the formation? I pray for any solid improvement...

People are working on other things at the moment, so we haven't been able to do any more testing. I'm writing scripts for the foreseeable future.

If anyone wants to help out by joining as a playtester, apply here.

[HarkonRules]

The punic town looks really amazing! Such professional quality from a mod team.

[Roma_Victrix]

Love the new units as always, but holy cow, that new Punic town model! It is something to behold. Great job, gentlemen, keep doing more of that please! Kudos to Trarco and Ariovistus Suebus.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXRoMCSXUAARNWQ.jpg


For future models you guys could take into account some surviving Punic-Numidian architecture of Tunisia, like the Libyco-Punic Mausoleum of Dougga:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyco...leum_of_Dougga

[Baharr]

Those Chaldians look fantastic! Excited for their inclusion, too, Hayastan could really use a mainstay "line infantry" unit - especially when it wants to go toe-to-toe with the Seleucids.

[QuintusSertorius]

Incoming!

[alex33]

Aphrodite Ourania be praised! They are even more awesome than i expected <3 ! Okay I have the bad feeling I'm going to play another KB campaign once the new version hits. YOU GUYS ARE AMAZING!

Would be cool if you could again post the historical background if you can! I really enjoy reading what you historians have to say about those things!

[alex33]

Wait a minute. I just noticed do those guys also carry the awesome barbed Maiotian Javelins?

[HarkonRules]

Damn, those Bosporitai Logades look very badass. Cool javelins too!

[Tactics Mayers]

The Chaldians are better than levy phalanxes, roughly equivalent to Phalangitai (though shieldless). Note they're a regional unit, not a Hai factional one.

The Alans are professionals, so similar to the Aursans in melee (and better than the basic Sauromatian Rider).

Wait, so basically the Chaldian Phalanx are highly weak against projectiles due to having no shield? That's going to be a big problem since almost every infantry unit has javelins and what not, not to mention the missile units.

Ah, I can quite tell the Bosporian Logades are even stronger than the Peltastai Logades seeing how they are basically wearing chainmail as opposed to the linothorax.

[kingman1337]

The Bosporitai Logades are beautiful! Are they a sword or spear unit?

[Roma_Victrix]

Ah, I can quite tell the Bosporian Logades are even stronger than the Peltastai Logades seeing how they are basically wearing chainmail as opposed to the linothorax.

I love it. I love the combination of some wearing iron chainmail and others wearing bronze scale mail. They look incredibly badass. I can't wait to play a campaign with them!

As for the leather linothorax, leather armor of that sort is actually tougher and more defensible than many people realize. However, chainmail armor during the EBII time frame was definitely a boon to the defensive capabilities of heavy infantry. I think the Romans proved that well enough, after adopting it from the Celts. I love the Hellenistic use of chainmail as well, with Thorakitai and Kataphractoi. It goes to show that the Greeks were also moving in that direction thanks to the Galatians and the Romans. In fact, all across the board this can be seen and is demonstrated in EBII with the heavy infantry of the Illyrians (i.e. Illyrian thorakitai), the Thracians (i.e. upgraded Katoikoi), the Libyans (i.e. Libyan heavy swordsmen), the Carthaginians (i.e. upgraded Liby-Phoenician infantry), and even West Asians/Persians (i.e. Galatianised swordsmen) also sporting chainmail armor.

Although the Thureopherontes Toxotai for most factions have bronze scale armor, they actually have iron chainmail in the version for the Bosporan faction.