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Thread: The Scottish myth, the Scottish truth

  1. #1

    Default The Scottish myth, the Scottish truth

    Hey guys, just thought I'd put up some suggestions for the Scotland faction (I study history at the University of Glasgow, Scotland)

    The Braveheart image of Medieval Scotland is almost totally wrong - Scotland was in fact a prosperous kingdom, if smaller than some. All you have to do is take a look at some of the spectacular castles, mansions, monasteries, abbeys, churches etc. to see that the country was far from impoverished. While Scotland did develop a unique clan system, by the time of Medieval 2 Total War the Scottish army had adapted European modes and equipment of fighting.

    Infantry: the Celts may have invented chainmail, and early Scottish infantry would have worn mail armour with jackets and other standard western European armour. Spears were the most popular weapon, but halberds/long axes, lochaber axes, short axes, swords, blunt weapons and knives were also used, often with shields. The majority of units would be a levvy from the common folk of town and countryside but also included some of the more well-to-do and nobles. Armour was made at home or imported from the Continent - and France often supplied Scotland with weapons and armour as part of the Auld Alliance agreement.

    In later ages, partial plate and full plate replaced mail and leather, with the nobles being especially well armed. Spears were replaced with longer pikes and larger two-handed swords to cut through enemy armour. At the advent of firearms, armour slowly became obsolete. It is at this time which we see highland dress definitely appear on the battlefield, with different colour/pattern tartans being worn by highlanders along with more typical European uniforms being used by Lowlanders at least until the start of the 18th Century. Scottish armies were not too slow to adopt firearms; at first using pike-and-shot with artillery support until modernisation left gunners as the main military profession.

    Cavalry: Early records show Viking reports of the Scots using heavy cavalry in battle. Scotland was indeed capable of producing heavy cavalry throughout the medieval period, although of much lesser numbers than England and France. Light cavalry was given a scouting, flanking and harassing role, as well as famously scattering the English archers at the Battle of Bannockburn 1314. Scottish cavalry armour would have followed West European conventions. The Border Reivers were particularly famous and deadly, operating on both sides of the Scotland-England border for loot, and who also worked as mercenaries. Scotland did indeed have knights, although as the vanilla game states, nobles often preferred to fight on foot. Also used were hobilars; infantry who travelled to the battle on horseback.

    Archers/Gunners: Scotland, like England and France, used shortbows, longbows and crossbows. France often imported Scottish longbowmen to fight in the constant wars against England, and the England-based Osprey history books attest there is no reason to suppose Scottish archers never used the longbow. Archers would also have used armour typical for each time period. There were, however, less of them and were less experienced than those of some other countries - although some were of very high quality, the Scots Guard of France and the archers from Ettrick and Galloway for instance. There is also no reason to suppose that later-era Scottish gunners or artillery were technically inferiour to other factions, in fact some are highly credited (find out about Mons Meg, a great cannon still at Edinburgh castle which was cast in Flanders!).

    In summary; tartan and highland dress would have been seen to a limited degree in earlier medieval Scottish armies, armies which the majority of the time would have appeared much like other European armies. Archers and artillery were very capable, as were late era gunners. A heavy emphasis was always placed on anti-cavalry infantry, however, and the Scottish army was never as large or power as some of its neighbours. Scotland was, however, able to fight deep into England and English-occupied Ireland and Isle of Man, go on Crusade and provide large armies to its Continental allies. The navy was not neglected and often played important roles.

    By the time firearms were being widely adopted, highland dress appeared on the battlefield on many Scottish soldiers, often used with pikes, halberds and great two-handed swords as well as muskets and pistols. In later times the two-handed claymore sword was replaced by a lighter one-handed sword and targe, a small shield embossed with Celtic designs.

    Scotland was not half-barbaric, but was mostly developed and had a strong army, economy and a relatively advanced government system which allowed it to withstand over a millenium of foreign invasion and maintain its independence.

    Hope this has been interesting and helpful Good luck with the mod guys, and I hope everyone is enjoying the summer Oh, and I'm really looking forward to playing the mod!

    Pax;

    -Steven

    Addendum: I hope Flanders is kept as a faction from the earlier previews, the region was nigh-on independent and very important. I vote for that, anyway!
    Last edited by Ettrick Archer; July 11, 2008 at 12:56 PM. Reason: Addendum

  2. #2

    Default Re: The Scottish myth, the Scottish truth

    i understand what you mean, that image of the semi-barbaric and some kind of "primitive-society" its a the totally hollywood ignorance machine working.....

    even braveheart its total fantasy , except for the part of the rebellion wich really happen, but wallace wasn't like how they portrait....not a low class guy, not living in peasant house...

    well this info its really precious, so if you want contribute with more info, feel free to do
    Common sense removed due being Disruptive.

  3. #3

    Default Re: The Scottish myth, the Scottish truth

    Nice info Ettrick Archer
    The House of Wilpuri ~ Proud Patron of: The Noble Lord & Sumskilz


  4. #4
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    Default Re: The Scottish myth, the Scottish truth

    Well I don't think Scotland would have used much cavalry, Scotland has hardly got much suitable terrain for large numbers of cavalry. But otherwise, completely agree with you.

    Scotland hardly used the equipment that was depicted in the movie Braveheart (and if they did, they would have been easily hacked to pieces). You don't attack an army of the English without using armor, we Norwegians know that from experience.

    Though I'm afraid there probably won't be any changes to Scotland (or any other vanilla faction) in the first release.

    But still it wouldn't hurt if you posted some unit concepts for us.

  5. #5

    Default Re: The Scottish myth, the Scottish truth

    Ah of course I am thinking quite far ahead I'll try and find some decent pictures and link or put up scans, when I manage to come across them

    hekk you are completely correct about the cavalry - apart from the relatively flat belt just below the highlands and along much of the east coast, the terrain does not favour cavalry and this was used to help defend Scotland. Large amounts of heavy cavalry were certainly not produced, sometimes because they couldn't be and sometimes because they would be of no use. Spearmen and other infantry were certainly the major focus of Scottish armies. But nobles were able to equipment themselves after the French fashion and some Medieval sources do attest to the occasional use of armoured cavalry, though light cavalry were probably more common.

    Of course, even this would have mostly been limited to the Lowlands, the Highlands having, of course, little use for or tradition of cavalry - but the nobles again would have equiped themselves as best they could and horses were certainly used for transport and sport, if not battle.

    There are a few battles where Scotland's cavalry is generally accepted as playing a minor to pretty important role (even in battles we lost) - including one led by John Baliol, but I can't remeber their names. I'm on holiday, damn it! Ironically, as soon as the holiday is over I'll be able to get back onto the university's academic resources and do more research for this...come on September!

    As an aside; I do actually like the movie Braveheart, as a movie. After all, if I wanted a historical documentary I'd watch the History channel (except, er, that the History channel here is mostly WWII stuff...) and the same goes for games; realism to a degree is great, but gameplay has to be the focus. I don't mind some highland-dressed units and use of tartans, it makes the faction look a bit different. So long as Scotland isn't entirely Braveheat-ised!

    I love the world, the history and culture of almost everywhere is fascinating to me, and I love to travel. I give every faction in this game a go too. But I have a special love for Scotland. And when I get asked if we even have TVs here...we helped invent the bleeding things! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Logie_Baird

    Thanks guys, I try to make my lectures here as correct and interesting as possible!
    Last edited by Ettrick Archer; July 12, 2008 at 04:38 AM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: The Scottish myth, the Scottish truth

    Quote Originally Posted by hekk View Post
    You don't attack an army of the English without using armor, we Norwegians know that from experience.
    Don't remind us bad memories
    Common sense removed due being Disruptive.

  7. #7

    Default Re: The Scottish myth, the Scottish truth

    Quote Originally Posted by Ataegina View Post
    Don't remind us bad memories
    Norwegian zergling rush didn't work out, eh?

    ~Broken Crescent 3.0 - Lead 2D Artist~


  8. #8

    Default Re: The Scottish myth, the Scottish truth

    ehm you know.... just a bad day....
    Common sense removed due being Disruptive.

  9. #9

    Default Re: The Scottish myth, the Scottish truth

    The Battle of the Standard was a particular occasion where the Scots forgot to wear armour and suffered a catastrophic defeat to the English as a consequence.

    Saxons clad in Norman armament means you're gonna have a bad time.

  10. #10

    Default Re: The Scottish myth, the Scottish truth

    Hail and well met Ettrick Archer,

    Great post regarding Scottish units and army makeup. I help with the M2TW mod Deus lo Vult. There's going to be more work done on our kilted highland hoolies! The Scots rosters def' need attention. Drop by my studio in central Glasgow when next passing www.hopestreetstudios.com - I'll be back in a week or so if you're out and about.

    Tokus*Maximus

  11. #11

    Default Re: The Scottish myth, the Scottish truth

    we got few vanilla factions work ongoing on dev. forum (scotland,england,hre)

    visual information is mostly welcome (pictures,videos,etc) !
    Common sense removed due being Disruptive.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: The Scottish myth, the Scottish truth

    Well written!

    Ettrick, do you any sources of pictures of medieval Scottish soldiers worth checking out?

    I wonder about the Scots Guard. I never seem to find anything about them except in French, which I don't speak. Where they mainly an archer company or an all -round infantry with a portion of archers together with melee infantry? What kind of equipment would they have worn?

    Where there any specific type of units or regional units that used highland clothing earlier than others?

    Did soldiers use the white X (of st Andrew?) as a coat of arms or other kind of symbol?

    Apart from Scotlands contact with France, what where the main differences between early (10th to 12th century) medieval Scottish and Irish armies?

  13. #13
    RollingWave's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: The Scottish myth, the Scottish truth

    A few thought...

    1. The Battle of the Standard in 1138 seem to be the best general guide to what the early Scots army looked like, in that battle it was noted that...

    a. most people were dismounted, only a couple hundred guys out of a pretty large army of 16,000 fought mounted and all of them were recently migrated knights. The Battle of Largs im 1263 was also lead by the King himself and only featured at most 500 knights, so it seem that 300-500 knights was about the maximum capacity of Scotland during that period, obviously not neglectable but certainly on a very low end compare to other European nations.

    b. the battle of the standards depict a Scottish army where the Gaelic tribes was still the main battle force, lead by their respected chieftens, it seems more inline with the old Celtic Tribal Warfare than anything else, of the weapons meantioned it seemd that the Nobles were using swords (not Claymores) and had some decent armour on, and the most noted weapon on the Scottish side was javelin + long spears. The Gaelic tribe were unable to break the English lines however (though part of the line did break but it never collapsed). and the sustained arrow barrage through all this eventually defeated the Scots as several of their leading chiefs were eventually killed by arrows after taking many hits (which suggest pretty decent armour)

    c. by the time of Wallace of Bruce rolled along it seem that the general concept hasn't changed much, knights were still much fewer than England, the army was largely based on foot soldiers tied more closely to clans than to feudal fiefs (well by then the two had merged considerablly anyway.) Though the way Wallace and Bruce's army operated seem to suggest a army that might have changed much on appearance but did in essence.

    The description of the battle of the Standard saw an army that seem to fit into the stereotypical "barbarian horde" idea, where they basically lined up, shouted their war cries and then charged reckelessly towards the English line, by the wars of the Independence however the Scottish Infantires, although still using long spear formations and generally more tribal based, were considerablly more disciplined, not only to their reckless predecessors, but also compare to the English Feudal forces
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