Coward Murders Children in Florida

[Pontifex Maximus]

I agree

[mongrel]

AR-15s aren't the problem and focusing on them is retarded. Even trying to ban assault weapons is just stupid. Its not going to stop mass shootings. The Virginia tech shooter killed way more people than this guy in Florida and all he had was two handguns.

Banning handguns could have helped there. No charge for that sensible advice.

[Love Mountain]

Strawman. That's not what I said. I said it is the most highly regulated constitutional right, and I am right. It's been shown in the US that gun restrictions do not lead to less gun violence. Look at Chicago and Detroit if you don't believe me.

It was never indicated that you were talking in relation to constitutional rights. Not that it matter anyway. It's egregious to say that Firearms are heavily regulated in any way, shape, or form. And no it hasn't. Stop bringing up local laws when I've repeatedly said that they are ineffective due to the nature of gun availability in the states, and their mobility.

So in other words, criminals will find a way to kill people regardless of the presence of guns.

In other words, they don't have easy access to firearms and are thus less lethal. Require less training and are far more

I anxiously await your next argument which will necessarily compare Antarctica to the United States to show that the lack of guns on that continent has led to a crime rate of 0%. Wake up America!

Attempts to ridicule won't get you anywhere. Gun control works. You can tell by looking at other civilized regions that share the same problems as we do. The economic difference between rural Serbians and wealthy urban Germans is similar to the disparity between rural arizona and urban California. Europe also has various amounts of crime flowing through the borders just as we do.

How many of those permit carriers committed a gun crime in 2017? I'll wait.

Changing the argument. How many of those permit carriers actually stopped a crime? I'll wait. Just like I'll wait for you to explain how some 300 incidents of justifiable self defense serves as an ideological justification for the sheer unwillingness to hold gunowners and gun retailers unaccountable for the amount of illegal firearms in circulation.

You have constitutional right to own a firearm, you don't have a right to own a car. Ironically, the former requires a background check.

Which completely misses the point of my argument. You should not have to go through more hassle to buy a motor vehicle than you do for a lethal firearm. It's absurd.

Strawman, red herring, Geronimo, buffalo bagels! Three, but this is comparing apples to oranges.

I'm still waiting. Or are we done jacking off over the Constitution yet?

The Supreme Court of the United States disagrees with you, thankfully.

Not thankfully. Obscenely. As the Supreme Court has refused to be clear on the 2nd amendment letting organizations like the NRA abuse its ambiguity. Right now the Supreme Court's opinion on gun control is tantamount to "thoughts and prayers" on the issue. Can't wait until some rational people rule that strict regulation is perfectly okay under the Constitution.

No it won't. Actually discussing policies and proposing them in municipalities, states, and townhall meetings might though. The 2A isn't going to be repealed or significantly curtailed, it's just a fact. Instead of dwelling on how nice everything would be if it was, I've tried to begi a discussion about what possible steps can be taken to avoid them in the future. When we sift through unhelpful, boasting, or rude comments like this we actually have gathered some very interesting information that could do a lot to curtail shootings in the future. Thanks for your comment though

No, what you've done is repeatedly avoid questions the same way that the gun industry refuses to take any responsibility for their role in firearm related crime in this country. This is what happens when there are lax regulations, an ample supply of affordable firearms, and a society that refuses to admit there's any issue whatsoever with letting firearms circulate freely around the country.

This thread isn't about guns, or at least it was not intended to be. I plead for help to cull off topic discussion about gun control but alas, it seems the era of James Dean style mudpit moderators is over.

No, divorcing the discussion of firearms from a mass murder perpetrated with a firearm is dishonest and unfair to both the victims of the shooter and to any discussion about how this can be prevented in the future.

[mongrel]

Odd the way Trump and death toy apologists are placing the blame on "mental illness". Are they suggesting that America is significantly more bonkers than the likes Britain, Canada and Australia? I don't think so.

[Derpy Hooves]

Odd the way Trump and death toy apologists are placing the blame on "mental illness". Are they suggesting that America is significantly more bonkers than the likes Britain, Canada and Australia? I don't think so.

Maybe we are. Why? Who knows

[Vanoi]

Banning handguns could have helped there. No charge for that sensible advice.

Some of us want to actually address gun violence and not simply ban one or two weapons and hope something works.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Ah there's no point in trying to debate with people who think we need to just ban guns and solve the problem. The 2A isn't going to be repealed any time soon, and gun restriction isn't a viable solution for many reasons. This coupled with a flippant disregard for things like Constitutional rights makes the whole business pretty tedious. If that's all that someone has to contribute to the discussion it's a waste of time to post.

[chilon]

Some of us want to actually address gun violence and not simply ban one or tow weapons and hope something works.

I've never heard anyone advocate to "simply ban one or two weapons and hope".

For me its a logical combination of things that can be done to curb the ease of access and the decrease the fatalities.

• Reinstate the Federal Assault Weapons Ban.
• Remove all private seller loopholes to background checks
• Ban all domestic violence perps from owning guns.
• When relevant ban all perps of animal cruelty especially those that kill animals from owning guns.
• Gun registration throughout the whole country with the potential for spot checks to ensure safety.

People forget its not just mass shootings or murder but suicide and accidental shootings.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/19/healt...udy/index.html

[Vanoi]

I've never heard anyone advocate to "simply ban one or two weapons and hope".

For me its a logical combination of things that can be done to curb the ease of access and the decrease the fatalities.

• Reinstate the Federal Assault Weapons Ban.
• Remove all private seller loopholes to background checks
• Ban all domestic violence perps from owning guns.
• When relevant ban all perps of animal cruelty especially those that kill animals from owning guns.
• Gun registration throughout the whole country with the potential for spot checks to ensure safety.

People forget its not just mass shootings or murder but suicide and accidental shootings.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/19/healt...udy/index.html

Assault weapons ban is useless and outright ignores the guns used in the majority of deaths involving firearms.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/s...apon-myth.html

Handguns cause the vast majority of deaths involving firearms. Up to 80%. An assault weapons ban will not touch those.

[mongrel]

Some of us want to actually address gun violence and not simply ban one or two weapons and hope something works.

Why not ban them all except for those with a genuine need for one? No charge for that advice either.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Why not ban them all except for those with a genuine need for one? No charge for that advice either.

Because it requires repealing a Constitutional amendment. Please re-read this sentence until all its implications sink in. It's not a viable solution.

[Vanoi]

Why not ban them all except for those with a genuine need for one? No charge for that advice either.

Supreme Court defined genuine needs. Self-defense is one. Anyone could claim that and get a gun.

Ban them all but the 300 million in circulation will be grandfathered in.

[Elfdude]

I mean, I've only stated it twice in this thread but Australia did a successful ban of most guns and instituted strong controls on purchasing/owning them. The Govt just reimbursed folks for the market value of their guns and because the majority of gun owners are poor almost overnight the majority of them were sold. Frankly it shouldn't be easier to own a gun than it is to get a drivers license. I don't suggest we create a black market but there are ways to incentivize turning in and getting rid of guns people don't need. I know I haven't shot my guns in years because I haven't had time, if I could get even a fraction of their value out I'd be happy to turn them in.

[Vanoi]

Any buy-back would have to be voluntary. And how many would actually get rid of them?

[Pontifex Maximus]

I mean, I've only stated it twice in this thread but Australia did a successful ban of most guns and instituted strong controls on purchasing/owning them. The Govt just reimbursed folks for the market value of their guns and because the majority of gun owners are poor almost overnight the majority of them were sold. Frankly it shouldn't be easier to own a gun than it is to get a drivers license. I don't suggest we create a black market but there are ways to incentivize turning in and getting rid of guns people don't need. I know I haven't shot my guns in years because I haven't had time, if I could get even a fraction of their value out I'd be happy to turn them in.

It can be done. It won't be done.

[neoptolemos]

Why not ban them all except for those with a genuine need for one? No charge for that advice either.

I really don't know how many more lifes taken by mass shootings it ll take for someone to see the need for this simple action against guns......

[Pontifex Maximus]

It's getting real tiring sorting through the one liner virtue signalling from people who roll into this thread without even reading the OP.

[Prodromos]

I've never heard anyone advocate to "simply ban one or two weapons and hope".

For me its a logical combination of things that can be done to curb the ease of access and the decrease the fatalities.

• Reinstate the Federal Assault Weapons Ban.
• Remove all private seller loopholes to background checks
• Ban all domestic violence perps from owning guns.
• When relevant ban all perps of animal cruelty especially those that kill animals from owning guns.
• Gun registration throughout the whole country with the potential for spot checks to ensure safety.

People forget its not just mass shootings or murder but suicide and accidental shootings.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/19/healt...udy/index.html

Many of these measures would go against the Constitution. People often forget that while guns can be used to ward off crime, the primary purpose of the Second Amendment is to help the people fight government tyranny. Funny and true image:

[Vanoi]

My guns don't protect me from the government. The government will win.

[Muizer]

Let them have their guns, just stop selling ammo!

Anyway, I really don't know how the US can extricate itself from the position it is in. Gun control can work to maintain low levels of gun ownership and it is those low levels that put limits on gun crime. It means you either need to obtain a permit (which involves concealing your criminal intent in the face of scrutiny) or you need to have connections with criminals who can supply you illegally. In the US, you can be an anonymous law abiding citizen right up until the moment you open fire.