Coward Murders Children in Florida

[Gaidin]

Well I've watched three or four such posts go unanswered, as it should be, and since moderation doesn't seem to be interested in keeping this thread spam free or on topic, I'm hoping a little shame can put a stop to it. That also wasn't my idea at all, I think additional staff should be hired. I don't think we should spread police forces thin. I'll gladly fork over my fair share of taxes on a state or federal level to make it happen to hire these additional employees. It would be helpful to read the thread and reply instead of just dropping in some spam. So to that end, do you have a viable suggestion for how to prevent these sorts of scenarios, or are you just here to troll people you disagree with?

It's a federal problem that requires federal law and policy for the country to follow. Let's pretend California addressed any number of things over the years. Tell me. What good does that do us with this incident and any number of incidents we can point to outside California.

But no, from federal legislators: thoughts and prayers.

[Pontifex Maximus]

It's a federal problem that requires federal law and policy for the country to follow. Let's pretend California addressed any number of things over the years. Tell me. What good does that do us with this incident and any number of incidents we can point to outside California.

So then we put a federal employee with advanced firearms training in every school in the country with the sole purpose of security, perhaps one for every 1,000 students. I'd gladly pay that federal tax.So far we've learned armed security is a pretty good way to go for preventing or minimizing school shootings.

[Elfdude]

It's still the Constitution...

Yup. Because the Constitution refers to the complete body of the Constitution and amendments.

We have a procedure in place for amending the Constitution. The 2nd Amendment is unlikely to ever be revoked in our lifetime, it'sa waste of time to point at the 2A and say "aww shucks if it wasn't for that we would have no more violent crime"

I mean, the scope of it was heavily parsed back due to the supreme court, as it stands the 2nd amendment does give the federal government every right to limit and regulate the sale, ownership and exchange of guns.

Again none of this is on topic

It's almost like we exist in a world where there's no real lines in the sand and trying to discuss a subject which involves several rather enormous concepts without discussing those concepts is rather impossible isn't it?

Also, love the fact that topics seem to matter when you're limiting others but doesn't seem to have anything to do with your posts in a variety of other threads...

So you're in favor of profiling an entire group of people and restricting their rights based on the actions of a few? I must have missed that in your discussion of the Muslim immigration ban.

Yeah, I'm down to profile the alt-right as terrorists. The irony would be as delicious. I suppose if the muslim wears a MAGA hat you can profile them too.

This shows you don't know how Congress works. If they could do whatever they wanted, tax cuts for individuals would not have to be renewed; health care and immigration reform (for good or for worse) would be done, and that's just off the top of my head. There are so many things Republicans cannot do because they don't have a super majority in the Senate, and the Dems refuse to work with them on any major legislation.

Uhm, the renewal of the tax cuts could've been worked around if they really tried, but think about it from a campaign donation perspective and tell me if they really would do so? Do mafiosos stop asking for protection money after you give it to them the first time? Why do you think politicians would? Most changes they need a super majority for could be forced through in other ways, the problem is that the 2018 election is connected to public opinion so they have to be intelligent about their slide into autocracy.

@chilon
If it does get to that point, assuming that hte military would fully back the government is completely insane, and if F-22s and drone strikes were all that were required, we wouldn't have as many troops in Afghanistan as we do.

I don't think they would if it was obvious.

Also that 3/5 compromise was included so as not to divide the country. Without it, US wouldn't have existed. It was needed at the time. Please tell me I don't have to explain the history of the 3/5 compromise?

lol.

Well I've watched three or four such posts go unanswered, as it should be, and since moderation doesn't seem to be interested in keeping this thread spam free or on topic, I'm hoping a little shame can put a stop to it. That also wasn't my idea at all, I think additional staff should be hired. I don't think we should spread police forces thin. I'll gladly fork over my fair share of taxes on a state or federal level to make it happen to hire these additional employees. It would be helpful to read the thread and reply instead of just dropping in some spam. So to that end, do you have a viable suggestion for how to prevent these sorts of scenarios, or are you just here to troll people you disagree with?

But your party is cutting state support to schools... Whereas wealthy schools or funded schools already have these procedures implemented. Your party is literally making this problem worse for their own base.

[LinusLinothorax]

Mostly because the US is the most free first world country.

*Mel Gibson screaming "Freeeeedooooom!" intensifies*

[Caduet]

If it ever got the point where the people try to use handguns and AR15s to protect themselves against F-22s and drone strikes its well past the point of no return.

Worked for the Vietnamese. Hezbollah trashed the IDF in 2006. Even the Taliban is retaking Afghanistan. Now, obviously the average Amerifat doesn't have an ounce of the fighting spirit those people have but you don't need a lot of people to keep an insurgency going. And insurgencies don't have to win, they have to not-lose.

[Gaidin]

So then we put a federal employee with advanced firearms training in every school in the country with the sole purpose of security, perhaps one for every 1,000 students. I'd gladly pay that federal tax.So far we've learned armed security is a pretty good way to go for preventing or minimizing school shootings.

Where's your funding for guest students of FLETC given they're already gutting the Department of Education.

[Elfdude]

Sometimes casualties are acceptable price to pay for those fighting a war. It's not for us but that's why they can still win the war if not the battle.

[mongrel]

Training with white supremacists, sworn to bring down the nation and owning semi-automatic rifle. What could possibly go wrong?

Here's thought for for those with weed the people attitude towards gun control. THe AR-15, the gun of choice for mass shooters was actually bannedin 1994, they can only be bought now because Congress failed to renew the Assault Weapons Ban legislation in 2004. A similar bill failed to pass the Senate in 2013.

[Gaidin]

Here's thought for for those with weed the people attitude towards gun control. THe AR-15, the gun of choice for mass shooters was actually bannedin 1994, they can only be bought now because Congress failed to renew the Assault Weapons Ban legislation in 2004. A similar bill failed to pass the Senate in 2013.

They need to come up with better gun control if they're gonna do it. That law was 98% cosmetic and you could find a wood stock weapon that did the same thing as the ar15 but was legal.

[Caduet]

Training with white supremacists, sworn to bring down the nation and owning semi-automatic rifle. What could possibly go wrong?

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/new...say/341751002/
Not quite. The source for the the white supremacy claim is the ADL (who were apparently tipped off by 4chan lmao), and a bunch of jews in the media ran with their fellow tribesmen. Actual law enforcement have not found any links. maybe they're not trying hard enough or something.

[Pontifex Maximus]

I mean, the scope of it was heavily parsed back due to the supreme court, as it stands the 2nd amendment does give the federal government every right to limit and regulate the sale, ownership and exchange of guns.

Which cases in particular are you referring to?

It's almost like we exist in a world where there's no real lines in the sand and trying to discuss a subject which involves several rather enormous concepts without discussing those concepts is rather impossible isn't it?

Also, love the fact that topics seem to matter when you're limiting others but doesn't seem to have anything to do with your posts in a variety of other threads...

A thread that's a year old will tend to wander. I created a foundation for discussion that was meant to be focused in order not to rehash the same old arguments for the hundredth time.

Yeah, I'm down to profile the alt-right as terrorists. The irony would be as delicious. I suppose if the muslim wears a MAGA hat you can profile them too.

I'm happy to add the alt-right to that list. Can we also add Black Lives Matter?

But your party is cutting state support to schools... Whereas wealthy schools or funded schools already have these procedures implemented. Your party is literally making this problem worse for their own base.

You mean funding to state schools using federal money? I'm all for deregulation, especially at the Dept. of Education level, and defunding all these mostly useless bureaucracies. Take it out of ATF's budget and make the school guards ATF agents. Then fund the ATF more. It doesn't matter where the money comes from.

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/new...say/341751002/
Not quite. The source for the the white supremacy claim is the ADL (who were apparently tipped off by 4chan lmao), and a bunch of jews in the media ran with their fellow tribesmen.

Oh really, which Jews would that be?

[Prodromos]

What does Iran have to do with the topic of gun control?

Anyway I don't see the point of these threads. Every time this happens a thread is made about guns. It's always the same people repeating the exact same arguments. You are not going to change anyone's opinion on this. That's because most people have deeper motivations behind their political opinions. Fancy arguments and crime statistics are just post-hoc rationalizations meant to fool other people, and prehaps themselves, into believing that their ideology is rational.

Republicans maintain total control in America. The President, the Senate, the House and the vast majority of state governors and state legislatures, are all Republican. There are not going to be any measures to weaken the Constitution. After two or three days, people will lose interest and move on to the next outrage of the day.

[Pontifex Maximus]

This thread isn't about guns, or at least it was not intended to be. I plead for help to cull off topic discussion about gun control but alas, it seems the era of James Dean style mudpit moderators is over.

[Prodromos]

This thread isn't about guns, or at least it was not intended to be. I plead for help to cull off topic discussion about gun control but alas, it seems the era of James Dean style mudpit moderators is over.

It was pretty obvious from post #1 that the discussion was gonna be about guns. Productive discussions aren't welcome on here.

Ontopic:

https://townhall.com/columnists/lawr...ocols-n2449726

I’m a small government guy, however, it’s sadly apparent that the United States of America is paralyzed with political indecision over something the State of Israel figured out more than 40 years ago: all schools should have mandated security features and active shooter protocols.

The horrific scene in Parkland, and the upsetting videos broadcast from the school during the shooting, should be the final straw. The kids should not have been hiding and screaming, they should have been in the midst of a pre-determined security protocol.

...

In 1974, Israel endured the Ma’alot Massacre in which “Palestinian” terrorists took 115 people hostage at Netiv Meir Elementary School. Twenty-two children and three others were killed and 68 injured. Israel now requires schools with 100 or more students to have a guard posted. The civilian police force handles the entire security system of all schools from kindergarten through college. The Ministry of Education funds shelters and fences, reinforces school buses, and hires and trains guards.

Guards don’t just stand around. They check everyone entering, and engage threats.

And yeah, they’ve got guns.The lawful purposes for carrying guns are very clear: protect school personnel and students, create a sense of security, deter the ill-intentioned, and provide self-defense.

Common sense. Except to the illogical dullards who claim that “adding guns to schools won’t fix anything” and are fixated on the NRA and the ridiculous notions that gun laws magically stop criminals and crazy people from obtaining one of the 300 million guns in our country.

But more to the point, Israel’s Police Community & Civil Guard Department have a preventative care program that encourages safe behavior and offers violence protection strategies in normal situations. Yet students are also trained in how to respond to an active shooter situation.

Ben Goldstein, an American who made aliyah to Israel, and now serves as volunteer security and supporter of IDF soldiers, says America is behind the curve. Nevertheless, he says, it doesn’t take much for students and teachers to protect themselves.

“Barricade, barricade. Are desks movable? Is the teacher’s desk movable? Can they barricade inside of 20 seconds? If the shooter gets in, the kids should take whatever they’ve got and attack. They can’t just sit there frozen or they will die. America does earthquake drills, why not active shooter drills? More kids have been killed by shooters than earthquakes.”

Barricading works, says Goldstein.In an active shooter situation, where a gunman is roaming a campus, five minutes is a lifetime, enough time for law enforcement to get to the scene. “In those five minutes, the shooter will have to move from class to class, reload, clear malfunctions, all that stuff takes time. And during gunfire lulls, kids must be taught to do something. Don’t freeze.Moving once gets you out of that deer-in-headlights space. Take command of the classroom.”

There is no other way, says Goldstein, and “sometimes children must take matters into their own hands.If the school has no proper security – two guards in case one gets shot, and no active shooter protocol, and no doors to withstand an attack – then the child needs to run as fast as they can AWAY from the shooter.”

Because right now, America is the deer-in-headlights. Gun control debates are a distraction and impractical, and criminals ignore laws anyway.Crazy people are obviously not being dealt with properly – students at Parkland even predicted this would happen.

The only solution is for America to toughen up. We have a pugilist for a president, and that is long overdue. Now its time for President Trump to fight for our children by wielding government power in the proper manner, to do something that any reasoned American would agree with.

Instead of handing out participation trophies, let’s make our kids into the self-reliant, pro-active defenders of themselves and others.

But I don't know. Living in a police state doesn't seem much better than death.

[Gaidin]

It was pretty obvious from post #1 that the discussion was going to be about guns. Productive discussions aren't welcome on here.

Ontopic:

https://townhall.com/columnists/lawr...ocols-n2449726



But I don't know. Living in a police state doesn't seem much better than death.

Most people want congress to do something and own the something they did. I won't even get into the 'something' Congress should do. But Congress won't do that. Congress just does nothing. And has done on all relevant topics since before Columbine. So there.

[Vanoi]

Here's thought for for those with weed the people attitude towards gun control. THe AR-15, the gun of choice for mass shooters was actually bannedin 1994, they can only be bought now because Congress failed to renew the Assault Weapons Ban legislation in 2004. A similar bill failed to pass the Senate in 2013.

AR-15s aren't the problem and focusing on them is retarded. Even trying to ban assault weapons is just stupid. Its not going to stop mass shootings. The Virginia tech shooter killed way more people than this guy in Florida and all he had was two handguns.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Most people want congress to do something and own the something they did. I won't even get into the 'something' Congress should do. But Congress won't do that. Congress just does nothing. And has done on all relevant topics since before Columbine. So there.

Alas, the one area in which I actually lament Congress is asleep at the wheel...

AR-15s aren't the problem and focusing on them is retarded. Even trying to ban assault weapons is just stupid. Its not going to stop mass shootings. The Virginia tech shooter killed way more people than this guy in Florida and all he had was two handguns.

This is why I find it so very difficult to discuss these matters with non-Americans...they're a few steps behind in the analysis just because they don't understand the context. It isn't their fault, but still...

[Vanoi]

I mean even during the Assault Weapon Ban from 1994-2004 that didn't stop Columbine from happening in 1999.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Because criminals don't care about laws. Shocking.

[Vanoi]

It's not that as much as you can't just legislate mass shootings away by banning a class of guns.