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Thread: Charge attack animations?

  1. #1
    axicup's Avatar Civis
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    Icon5 Charge attack animations?

    Hello TWCenter!

    So as I was playing Attila yesterday I noticed something I had never noticed before: charging units do no charging attacks. They simply suddenly stop in front of each other and start doing normal melee attacks. No pushes, no swinging, no falling, only stopping. At first I suspected Radious mod that I was using at the time, so naturally I disabled it and ran a simple test. Nope, still the same.

    After some time googling on the matter with no particular answers, I stumbled upon a thread praising the charge attack animations of roman legionnaires from Rome 2. The poster told the readers about amazing jumps and shield slams (or something like that) that his legionnaires were doing to their enemies and asked if any other units did cool charges like that. Other posters replied that barbarian units also used such attacks. The thread ended abruptly with the original poster saying that those animations were now gone.

    I then did some more testing, now in Rome 2. No matter how many units and factions I tried, none of them had any charging attack animations. The soldiers would just gently bump into each other, stop, and then proceed to clumsily turn around occasionaly stabbing a guy or two (so, again, normal melee mode).

    Furious, I then loaded up Shogun 2 (as I remember this feature being there) and did some custom battles with positive results. Yeah, the samurai really slammed into each other swinging their katanas.
    Next came Medieval 2, and I didn't even have to test it twice: my english swordsmen jumped into the enemy french line with swords above their heads to a very visceral and fun display (at least, for me).

    So, the question still stands: where have the charge attack animations of Attila and Rome 2 gone?

    P.S.: Now, mind you, I'm not even sure those were there when the games launched, as I am getting old and forgetful. So I had to rely on the words of others. But it is seriously bugging me. I now feel like some part of the fun from the game was sucked out.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Charge attack animations?

    Agree with you there!
    Why on earth shouldn't We have some charge animations?

  3. #3
    Vardan the Great's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Charge attack animations?

    Yes, both Attila and Rome have such problems. I don't know whether it can be fixed by mods or only CA devs must patch it...
    "An unexpected death is a death, an intended death - immortality"
    (c) Vardan Sparapet, before the Battle of Avarayr

  4. #4

    Default Re: Charge attack animations?

    how should a charging animation look like when units collide? u want them to continue charging or what?
    War is Hell, and I'm the Devil!

  5. #5
    Imperator Artorius's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Charge attack animations?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fanest View Post
    how should a charging animation look like when units collide? u want them to continue charging or what?
    I think he means the particular canned 1v1 animations between two colliding units. For example, there's one animation where the attack knocks the defender to the ground with his shield then stabs him.
    Ive not really noticed a difference but apparently they seem to have disappeared for whatever reason.

    Personally, I found them a bit OTT and Hollywood-y but they did give some semblance of collision between two units.

  6. #6
    Vardan the Great's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Charge attack animations?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fanest View Post
    how should a charging animation look like when units collide? u want them to continue charging or what?
    When infantry or cavalry collapse they must do some specific move. For instance cataphracts must hit with their lances, Swordsmen must slap with swords etc
    "An unexpected death is a death, an intended death - immortality"
    (c) Vardan Sparapet, before the Battle of Avarayr

  7. #7
    axicup's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Charge attack animations?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fanest View Post
    how should a charging animation look like when units collide? u want them to continue charging or what?
    Well, no. That would look almost exactly as it does now. Just see how Medieval 2 did it.

    Hollywood-y or not, the charge would feel like a charge even with matched animations. As it is now, there is no feel of collision, only the sound of it that does not match anything actually happening. I wish there was at least some meaty shield bashing going on.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Charge attack animations?

    they disabled a ton of unit interaction animations for some unknown reason.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Charge attack animations?

    i just watched mtw2 charge and compared it to attilas, and i don't see anything different apart form that there is no stupid flying men during the charge
    War is Hell, and I'm the Devil!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Charge attack animations?

    Because CA released the game in beta, that's why they released unfinish animations, after some aptch, they removed those animation fragment for charges, now we have only combat/walk/run animations, but not run, because CA prefer remove stuff than finish it. In fact some of the "new features" of Attila were in Rome 2, removed because they were unfinish. The only way to fix that is CA finish their work (and Attila is officially abandoned now), or create a totally new animation fragments, this need good skills as animator, expensive programs and time.

    To be honest, I dont know why modders must finish the work of CA, the work we pay for. Rome 2 in Alpha was better than Rome 2 at release, and 17 patches before, is still better the alpha we saw in previews, they same alpha we pay for and never saw ingame.

  11. #11
    caratacus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Charge attack animations?

    I agree with the OP. Seeing units rush forward at an enemy unit and then just stop staring over their shoulders, before engaging in melee, does look odd for a game as graphically rich as Attila.

    I personally was disappointed that the animations in Attila were not updated from Rome II. CA invested in a stop motion machine but after the initial release of Rome II seem to have put it to rest. Either that or they are using it for Wahammer exclusively. If it is a question of justifying time and resources a dlc of extra animations, seems infinitely more desirable than a Garamantian or Slavic faction pack.
    Last edited by caratacus; February 20, 2016 at 01:10 PM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Charge attack animations?

    you mentioned something about stop motion and i must say that reminds me of an incident i had in attila today. playing siege of ravenna historical battle, the game suddenly started rendering the animation in stop motion. the fps was still normal, in fact i must say they improved, drastically. i'd estimate it to be over 1 hundred. i normally have the game running 30-60 fps range.

    it's interesting, because it's almost as if the unit detail close up actually didn't matter. before, i went into a melee mosh pit and the frames would drop to the 30s range. now, it's still over 100 fps, very smooth, very fluid. the only thing that was lagging was the animation.

    quite a strange experience, i must say.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Charge attack animations?

    That's so weird.

    Catapracts are my favorite unit, and they literally never kill anyone with their lances. They charge in and imediately drop their lances for swords and just get a bonus to their sword attacks for 15 seconds or something like that.

    I miss Med 2 when the knights whould trample 60 men on the charge in moments.

  14. #14
    axicup's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Charge attack animations?

    Quote Originally Posted by emcdunna View Post
    Catapracts are my favorite unit, and they literally never kill anyone with their lances. They charge in and imediately drop their lances for swords and just get a bonus to their sword attacks for 15 seconds or something like that.

    I miss Med 2 when the knights whould trample 60 men on the charge in moments.
    Exactly! The player should feel and see the effect, not keep it in mind. It's a separate unit attribute that has zero visual feedback.

  15. #15
    LordInvictus's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Charge attack animations?

    The reason you don't see any charge on charge animations is because there are simply no animations for them. There are only charge animations against a stationary target. Furthermore, CA seems to have lowered the chances of even these animations from playing. This is probably due to the wave of complaints about blobbing and formation breaking, though now people want them back. However, it is possible to replicate this partially by modding the animation tables, though no one seems to have done so currently.

    In Shogun 2, there were mutual charge animations, which is why you saw samurai slamming into each other and Medieval 2 didn't have matched charges, so you could have infantry swinging their swords on the charge.
    Quote Originally Posted by emcdunna View Post
    That's so weird.

    Catapracts are my favorite unit, and they literally never kill anyone with their lances. They charge in and imediately drop their lances for swords and just get a bonus to their sword attacks for 15 seconds or something like that.

    I miss Med 2 when the knights whould trample 60 men on the charge in moments.
    Are you sure you didn't switch the two games because Attila has cavalry trampling 60 men on the charge and Medieval 2 has knights immediately dropping their lances or not even using them for the charge.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Charge attack animations?

    If you take even a basic knight unit from med 2 and charge the front of a non-spearmen infantry unit, ideally medium sword infantry, you absolutely crush them in 2 seconds. You lose 3 guys, they lose half of their number.

    In Attila, sure, charges still hit hard, and cav units can rack up hundreds of kills in a short period, but it's not animated that way. The way it's animated is that charging looks cool, but the actual impact is boring. They smoosh together, drop lances and start swinging with swords. The unit they charged loses no one from the actual impact of the charge, so 1 second after impact they usually have taken no casualties. Even if it wasn't animated, it'd be far better to see the opposing unit lose men in the actual impact.

    Also, the impact of the charge knocking people over makes it easy for you to withdraw your cav shortly after charging (which is very historically accurate).

    Now in med 2 and older games, there were lots of bugs. Some charges would kinda just fail, with no good impact. Often times its due to the terrain. Anyway, they still actually had charge animations (people being thrown to the ground or thrown back).

  17. #17
    LordInvictus's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Charge attack animations?

    Quote Originally Posted by emcdunna View Post
    Snip
    Cavalry hit hard in Medieval 2, but the visual feedback is not that great. These knights hit the highland rabble and just kind of stopped. Yes, the peasants do explode into the air and blob into the cavalry charge, increasing casualties by further killing themselves, but the horses run in place and the forward momentum of the charge is pretty nonexistent. In contrast, Attila's charge hits hard, killing 25 men on the charge and throwing men backwards; the only shortcoming is that the horses don't really charge through but that may be due to the defensive formation being used. Infantry that are not braced are punished even more: half the unit dies on the charge and the cavalry run through the formation. Not sure what you mean by charge animations because Attila has charge reaction animations ranging from being knocked back gently to thrown flying for several feet.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Charge attack animations?

    Show me gameplay footage where a cataphract stabs an infantryman with his Lance on the charge.

    That's what I want to see.

    From above, the animations can't really be seen anyway. Only the general movement of the unit being pushed, or sometimes guys going flying can be seen, but what i'd like to see is slow motion impact where horses trample men, and lancers use their special charge weapon to stab someone with an animation for that before they draw their swords.

  19. #19
    LordInvictus's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Charge attack animations?

    Quote Originally Posted by emcdunna View Post
    Show me gameplay footage where a cataphract stabs an infantryman with his Lance on the charge.

    That's what I want to see.

    From above, the animations can't really be seen anyway. Only the general movement of the unit being pushed, or sometimes guys going flying can be seen, but what i'd like to see is slow motion impact where horses trample men, and lancers use their special charge weapon to stab someone with an animation for that before they draw their swords.
    So far, no TW game has that kind of charging animation, although Rome 2 and Attila have come the closest as riders will swing swords and stab with spears or lances upon contacting the enemy; there is no impalement however.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Charge attack animations?

    From some of the videos on warhammer, it seems like they are doing more charge animations. It seems like orcs sometimes jump and attack upon impact, and cavalry will even crush other cavalry on impact. You can see how stupid it'd be if a massive giant charged into zombies and just began attacking normally. He should kick them or fall on them even.

    Same goes for demigryphs. If they don't have somesort ofimpact attack, it'll be very disappointing

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