[Citizen] Dontfearme22 (Patron: PunitorMaximus)

[Sir Adrian]

The screenshots above were already posted in the OP and while a contribution it is not nearly enough for citizenship.

[Hetairos]

I don't want to lower Brivimes quality or quantity of modding, but Dontfearme has made much much more rosters, textures and provided a lot more content. Dontfearme did not "contribute" to the AoB rosters, but did "make" all of the rosters I've listed. He did pretty much make all new textures of AoB and hence did not only make half of the rosters himself, but "contribute" to all other rosters who were not made by him with his textures as well.

I am sorry if I was not clear or if we did misunderstand each other, but the actual contribution of rosters and textures of AoB looks probably like that:

PunitorMaximus (lead design and already artifex): 40%-45%
Dontfearme22: 40%-45%
Brivime: 10%-15% (specialized on arabian roster)

Again not to lower Brivimes contributions, but if Brivime gets accepted and Dontfearme22 not than we would make a mistake here. Because Brivime is highly specialized in Arabian rosters and did his part in AoB well and now is able to contribute to other mods with their arabian rosters this is fine. But Dontfearme doing like half of the rosters and pretty much the majority of the textures he would deserve the Artifex more than Brivime from that certain viewpoint. As I stated before, people asked to see for more contributions from Dontfearme22 elsewhere. As a generalist making almost all textures and working on half of the rosters himself he has not the luck to be highly specialized and being done already with his part, but works relentlessly on the AoB rosters only. He has not the luxury of time to work on other mods, but I have seen him help other modders out by questions etc. Which also isnt bad speaking about his time restriction. He also does allow other modders to use his textures or even alter them, which is not bad at all as well considering the incredible amount of completely new content he provided! Concerning him contributing with such a big chunk of work it may be better to just restart the vote since the information about his contributions to the mod came pretty late. Dontfearme has contributed to the entire AoB total conversion mod much more than we assumed.

[Sir Adrian]

Brivime has other work besides this, we don't know if dontfera has anything else.

[Hetairos]

Yes, we don't know for sure.

I just found out that he is on a 4 weeks language trip. That doesn't help us, but at least he is doing the trip for the good. So, anyways its hard to get more information from him about if he has more stuff besides that what we know.

But what I meant is that what we know of surpasses Brivimes combined work already by quiet some amount. A total conversion mod is an incredible incredible incredible amount of work and is by no means to be compared with a standalone mod like a unit roster or a naval overhaul etc. He contributes with about almost 50% to this total conversion mod. There is no doubt of he deserving the Artifex just as Brivme does, if not even more than Brivime does, who was actually here and did answer our questions.

[.Mitch.]

I'm seeing much more here that I did for Brivime, but I still can't bring myself to vote yes, nor will I vote no. The fact that there seems to be quite a few new unit textures created does sway me from a no, but again for the rest of his work I'm just not seeing enough for a definite yes right now. So I'll abstain.

[Hetairos]

Same for both apps: Well thats unfortunate, because to me the work on a cohesive total conversion mod is the highest peak a TWC modder can climb. I don't see some units for some unit packs, but a complete world, the world of Age of Bronze, brought to the community, the only modification out there that deals with this timeframe and can not draw from other peoples work like the popular Roman timeframe, but must do everything from scratch.

I personally can't think of what more of a contribution somebody can bring than a total conversion modification.

[m_1512]

If someone is proposed here for citizenship because he/she is said will do quality work for Content, then I would award that not before the work is actually delivered to the crew and site, even if some citizen co-workers claim it will be great material when it is delivered. Because, it might never be, and if promised material is all we are to evaluate, then there's little to evaluate, and if not troughoutfully presented then there's nothing to evaluate - in difference to if the tutoial maker has a track record in a Mod Workshop, or the Content member has a gallery that has been made a resource for Content

Since you have mentioned Content, I should say that both are one and the same. If a person has made exceptional content, I would have to be an absolute daft dimbo of a director to not release something this good. But this has been a problem since the CdeC era. Not many consider a perspective that WIP in a mod means that a person has done their work, and the mod is simply in process to release. This was the case in my citizenship application. Ten articles in my very first edition after joining the team, but the CdeC went harping on that it was nothing coz it was not released. But it got released two days later into application and the discussion changed. If it does not release, why on earth would it be the fault of the unit maker who has done their work? Further, as mentioned in the other thread, WIPs bring traffic because, I for one, like to see the updates to this mod. I have been following this mod and like to keep checking on what's new there. It is a contribution and it comes down to taking a call in either canonical sense (tradition/constitution) or in consideration of a wider perspective (interests of the site).

Voted yes. The reasons are along the lines of what Omni has posted and don't want to repeat the post.

[Aikanár]

Yeah, right. We've also seen lots and lots and lots of mods die before release, hence the work done never was released to the public. Of course, the preview threads exist till today and of course they themselve are a contribution, but just not enough according to my opinion.

Previews are great and bring traffic and all that, and if somebody has produced a considerable amount of high quality previews in article style, that could very well be considered worth citizenship on its own.

However, this applicant is not a writer, he's not writing and producing previews. He does skinning and moddeling and while it is now somwhat discernable what he did, it's still unreleased. And we simply do not know whether or not it might ever get released? Are we to blame for that? I don't think so. If anything, the applicant has been put up too soon.

But it's always the same, when discussion starts about unreleased work (mind you I choose the word unreleased not WIP), just because some people don't rubber stamp the idea of what a contribution is and how much it is worth of some other people, those who are disagreed with start pointing fingers and crying shame. To be honest, I'm sick of that attitude. You think that it's enough for you to vote yes? Great! Then go on and vote yes. But just because you say yes and others say no does not imply in any shape or form that you can claim the moral high ground and impose your ideas on others.

I'm sick of this houlier than thou attitude seriously, especially when all one is asking for is a snippet of released work.

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And now for the applicant, I have voted no. Why? Because I'd like to see his work or at least some bits of his work released. I think he was brought here too early. I encourage the applicant to keep doing what he's doing and in case his application might fail, re-apply whenever a first version of his work might have been released.

[mishkin]

delete/sorry

[Confederate Jeb]

Voted.

[Finch]

the die is cast.

[Augustus Lucifer]

Dontfearme22 was unsuccessful in obtaining Citizenship this go around. He's been PMed the result.